Gotham Gotham Season 2, Episode 2 "Knock, Knock" General Discussion

[Snow Queen]

Agreed 100%. But I don't think Jerome will make it past mid season, if that.

Anyone else have a problem with the Bruce/Alfred storyline? Bruce shouldn't be able to fire Alfred. Alfred's his legal guardian and Alfred wouldn't abandon a 12 year old Bruce.

It's also the same thing that happened last week. "Jim/Alfred, you're fired!" *20 minutes later* "Jim/Alfred, welcome back!"

 

[Frodo]

I thought it was probably one of the best episodes of the whole series along with Penguin's umbrella . I felt Jerome stole the show and was the best part of it. If anything, the Gordon and Edward stuff was what the most bland, as usual.

I actually like the idea of this version of Joker having a twisted mentor who guides him to his dark destiny . Yeah, he's not unknown in this version, but he wasn't in B89 either, so I don't mind us knowing about him for this version. It works here ,so I don't mind.

This show has already killed Sarah Essen and made Barbara Keen a villain among drastic changes from the comes, so if you're still expecting the series to be true to the comics, you're gonna be in for more disappointment.

I liked how the Bruce/Alfred/ and Lucius plot turned out. I felt last week's premiere was pretty weak so this episode was much better imo.

 

[Loki882]

While I'm also in the "Joker shouldn't have a set backstory" camp, I have to admit that if they have to do that, then this kid is probably the best way to go. Because he's really good. And to be fair, it's not like their haven't been versions of the Joker with backstories before. Heck even the one that a lot of fans hold up as the best, Mark Hamill, was given something of a backstory. And of course so was Jack Nicholson's as well (whom lots of people also love). And really, Jerome's backstory isn't much more "detailed" than there's was.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes I agree that Joker works better as a mystery...BUT it's not like his character has never had a back-story given to him before. Is Jack Nicholson's Joker any less the Joker because Burton gave him a backstory? He's the Joker I grew up with, and I still love him to this day. Heck Mark Hamill's animated Joker was also given a back-story of sorts in Mask of the Phantasm.

Besides what exactly did we learn about Jerome...that he grew up at the circus and killed his mother? That's not a lot of info really.

And IF Jerome does become the Joker...whose to say that in the future when he does take the plunge into the acid and becomes the killer clown, that the police will figure out that he's the same kid who terrorized them years before?

And even if they did... how would that info help them?

Example:

Gordon: Jerome?

Joker: Jerome is dead, you can call me Joker!

I know I stole from Nicholson, but Jerome sort of reminds me of Nicholson's Joker more-so then Ledger's Joker. t:

But since he was always a psycho it's not like they could use his 'past life' against him anyway.

While I'm also in the "Joker shouldn't have a set backstory" camp, I have to admit that if they have to do that, then this kid is probably the best way to go. Because he's really good. And to be fair, it's not like their haven't been versions of the Joker with backstories before. Heck even the one that a lot of fans hold up as the best, Mark Hamill, was given something of a backstory. And of course so was Jack Nicholson's as well (whom lots of people also love). And really, Jerome's backstory isn't much more "detailed" than there's was.

The problem is he is already "the Joker". He's not a reaction to Batman or horrific event, he is this weirdo trying to act like Ledger's Joker, when even while he is Jerome. Even with Nicholson's Joker, he went insane with what happened to him. He didn't act like himself, he became the Joker. An entity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought it was probably one of the best episodes of the whole series along with Penguin's umbrella . I felt Jerome stole the show and was the best part of it. If anything, the Gordon and Edward stuff was what the most bland, as usual.

I actually like the idea of this version of Joker having a twisted mentor who guides him to his dark destiny . Yeah, he's not unknown in this version, but he wasn't in B89 either, so I don't mind us knowing about him for this version. It works here ,so I don't mind.

This show has already killed Sarah Essen and made Barbara Keen a villain among drastic changes from the comes, so if you're still expecting the series to be true to the comics, you're gonna be in for more disappointment.

I liked how the Bruce/Alfred/ and Lucius plot turned out. I felt last week's premiere was pretty weak so this episode was much better imo.

Does it work? Does it really? It might just be me, but he alternates between a really lame version of Jack and Heath. He also isn't on a show without better villains. Penguin and Zsaz are beast.

I really enjoyed the first season in-spite of its flaws, but this is quickly turning into Smallville. If they wanted to make a Batman show, make a Batman show. Don't fudge it. Can you have the freaks before Batman? Theoretically yes, but there is no point here, heck there is no point for Batman.

 

[Snow Queen]

Jerome's terrible. The acting, the writing, it's just bad. Entertainingly so, though.

 

[Silly Cat]

The problem is he is already "the Joker". He's not a reaction to Batman or horrific event, he is this weirdo trying to act like Ledger's Joker, when even while he is Jerome. Even with Nicholson's Joker, he went insane with what happened to him. He didn't act like himself, he became the Joker. An entity.

Last I saw he was still referring to himself as 'Jerome', and not 'The Joker' wasn't he?

Yeah his personality is there, but at this point he is still just a psycho who loves killing and torturing people for kicks. He doesn't have his clown motif, or his obsession (Batman) yet, so no...he is NOT the Joker.

Not yet.

And this is all just assuming that Jerome will actually become the Joker, the creators could still pull the rug out from under us if they want to.

And to be frank 'Jerome' reminds me more of Nicholson's Joker then Ledger's Joker...the only time he reminded me of Ledger was when he was broadcasting on TV...but then again that's something Joker in general, has always done.

 

[Sawyer]

Jerome's not acting the least bit like Heath's Joker.

 

[Frodo]

Does it work? Does it really? It might just be me, but he alternates between a really lame version of Jack and Heath. He also isn't on a show without better villains. Penguin and Zsaz are beast.

I really enjoyed the first season in-spite of its flaws, but this is quickly turning into Smallville. If they wanted to make a Batman show, make a Batman show. Don't fudge it. Can you have the freaks before Batman? Theoretically yes, but there is no point here, heck there is no point for Batman.

I think it works. Yeah it has Jack and Heath and Leto a bit. Then again, that's how the part has been written so that goes to the writers. I don't mind. He's still the Joker in the tradition of the other actors who've played the part , and if he'd done something radically different, alot of people would be complaining about that. I'm personally fine with this version .

I'd say he and Penguin are the best and Zsaz is okay. Of the villains on the series so far...yeah, Jerome is the best by a mile imo. They haven't been that good, though Falcone and Maroni were pretty good i'll grant you.

I'm the opposite of you in that I felt the first season was quite weak all in all. There some decent to good moments but overall it was anywhere near as good as the first season of Smallville if we're using that as a comparison. As far as what type of show it wants to be, at this point I really don't care.

The show overall has been at best uneven and all over the place . Some fans complain that people expect too much from it, and other fans complain it should be more like the comics , or this or that version. At this point, the show is gonna do what its gonna do , so whatever story they want to tell, from here on out , my own expectations are that they tell it well.

 

[Sawyer]

I didn't even notice that Penguin didn't appear tonight until like halfway through the episode.

 

[Kane52630]

I enjoyed it, much more than the previous episode. And the actor playing Jerome is doing such a fantastic job.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Kane52630]

Jerome's not acting the least bit like Heath's Joker.

I wonder if these are the same people who think Jard Leto's Joker is acting like Heath's.

 

[tnekkralc]

I have a theory that Barbara is going to give birth to a daughter sometime in the series but it's going to end up being Harley Quinn. Given that this incarnation of Barbara is mentally unstable it would give a reason for her hypothetical daughter to be fascinated with psychiatry. Ultimately she would follow the same path as her mother and descend into madness through abuse and manipulation of a psychopath (Barbara - The Ogre, HQ - The Joker).

 

[Broseph44]

Loveddddd this episode. Off to a great start this season. Loving Jerome, loving the tone so far. Seems more focused and less all over the place like last season.

 

[Sawyer]

I wonder if these are the same people who think Jard Leto's Joker is acting like Heath's.

Probably.

I mean, granted, saying he's "not the least bit" like Heath's Joker might have been a bit strong. I do get a bit of Heath in the performance. But overall, I don't see Heath's Joker when I'm watching Monaghan. I'm just seeing The Joker.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I loved the russian roulette bit with Jerome.
Probably my favorite part of the episode.

 

[Asharad]

I know I stole from Nicholson, but Jerome sort of reminds me of Nicholson's Joker more-so then Ledger's Joker.

I agree. To me it's mostly Nicholson with Ledger and Caesar sprinkled in.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Best episode of the show by far. Incredible acting from the whole cast this go round. Honestly I wish this had been the season premiere, but I realize they had lots of loose threads to tie up last episode.

I thought the performance of Jerome stood out a lot better this time. The actor did a fantastic job.

I may post an extended review later, but for now, the only two things I didn't really like were 1) killing off Essen and 2) Gordon being lured away from the GCPD without even alerting anyone else to Barbara's presence. Essen's death was a terrible move killing off an interesting character not to mention someone of significance from the comics. Yeah, I know this isn't the comics and anything can happen but it still rubbed me the wrong way. Just seems like a waste largely for shock value.

But overall, fantastic episode, well done. Here's hoping this is a sign of further greatness to come.

 

[Knight-Tale]

Jerome just jumped way above Penguin in just one episode
I hope he doesn't get written out of the show in some ridiculous way because I can tell he's going all out from the previews

 

[ThePhantasm]

Another thing... honestly with how dark the show gets sometimes, for a minute there I thought that bus full of cheerleaders really was going to get blown up. So kudos to the show for being so off-the-wall that I was unsure about what was going to happen.

 

[godisawesome]

This episode's pace was consistent with the premier, and it's a strong pace that moved the Bruce plot farther along than three or four of last year's episodes while also featuring engaging progress on the main front.

Galavan's still an interesting enigma, and he's still probably the biggest question mark for me. The actor's doing a great job, but I'm still curious as to who this guy is and hwy he does what he does. So I guess the creators are succeeding in that part of their gambit.

Now, here's my thoughts on Jerome when it comes to how far he resembles the regular Joker. The biggest single difference at the moment is how willing he is to be Galavan's attack dog; Lex Luthor could pull something similar, but Galavan's plans seem to already have a post-Jerome phase...

Now, here's my thoughts: Galavan and Jerome inevitably fall out, albeit probably without any personal hatred other than maniacal glee on Jerome's side. Jerome than sets up the Red Hood gang, forming it into the organization we're used to. Jerome is the leader and acts just as theatrically, but for his own benefit. He also starts using decoys, who act similarly. Then, we see a Red hood leader die, but we don't know if it was Jerome or not, we just know the leader of the Hoods keeps acting the same.

 

[Taarna]

Jerome is the future Joker, right? They're not going to do some bait and switch later on?

99.999% certain he is.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

wow, exciting episode. but they're really rushing to give us The Joker, aren't they?
I thought, they would focus more on Nygma this season but it doesn't look that way.

Also, I really hope (and there's a tiny chance) that Essen survived somehow. Her death was way to early

 

[Morg]

99.999% certain he is.

be a big fan bash if he's not. I like him as the possible Joker

He really nailed it as one crazy psychopath