The Dark Knight Harvey Dent/Two Face Thread

[TLH]

my bad then...worth a shot...it is edited very oddly though.

How so? You haven't seen it in the context of the film, so that's a groundless assertion.

 

[Diablo101]

Oh please it's not like Nolan can't make a good 3rd movie without Two Face or the Joker.

Seriously. People here are stupid if they think that you can't make another Batman film unless it has Two-Face.

The reason why Nolan said killing villains was wrong is because villains rarley die in the comic-book. But he didn't mean that "you don't kill the villain because you need him for the next one." Nolan let Scarecrow live, yet he only has like what, 5 minutes in TDK? Why? Because Scarecrow doesn't fit the theme of TDK. BB was all about fear, and that's why Scarecrow worked well. TDK is nothing about fear, so having a villian like Scarecrow doesn't make any sense.

A theme of TDK is duality, which is why Two-Face here makes sense.

But do you really think that if Nolan made a third film, he would have the theme of duality again? No.

The footage and reviews from TDK have shown that its an entirely different movie than BB. And if Nolan made a third one, it would be completely different from TDK. And despite what you think, if Two-Face was a major villain in the third, the third film would be very simliar to the second.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Two-Face isn't really a villain in TDK, so technically Nolan is keeping his word even if:

Spoiler

he kills him off.

 

[Diablo101]

Two-Face isn't really a villain in TDK, so technically Nolan is keeping his word even if:

Spoiler

he kills him off.

Again, something else some people don't understand. Two-Face isn't a villain but a tragic hero.

And if you are going to get upset that Nolan decided to take a different interpretation of the villain, first watch the movie before you get upset. Last time I checked, Mr. Freeze was a ****ty villain until Batman: TAS decided to reinterpret him and make him awesome.

Reimaging a charecter isn't a bad thing.

 

[vlkers54]

has anyone else found it strange that no review or anything has made mention of two-face? do we think that they had to sign something that said not to talk about two-face, especially how he looks, acts, etc.?

 

[redfirebird2008]

Again, something else some people don't understand. Two-Face isn't a villain but a tragic hero.

And if you are going to get upset that Nolan decided to take a different interpretation of the villain, first watch the movie before you get upset. Last time I checked, Mr. Freeze was a ****ty villain until Batman: TAS decided to reinterpret him and make him awesome.

Reimaging a charecter isn't a bad thing.

Totally agree. This is NOT Venom for crying out loud. Harvey Dent is on screen for a crapload of time in TDK and his story arc is the focus of the film. In the end, it all leads back to Batman and how it affects him. The ending sounds like one of the most tragic, epic, and iconic endings in movie history for me from what I have read (and I have read some very detailed spoilers on the ending).

 

[Venom 1988]

has anyone else found it strange that no review or anything has made mention of two-face? do we think that they had to sign something that said not to talk about two-face, especially how he looks, acts, etc.?

I pretty sure a couple reviews have mentioned Two-Face

 

[Crook]

From what I've read, they've mentioned Harvey's transformation into Two-Face, but not the character himself. There probably is an embargo on that, considering it's the last 30 or so minutes of the movie.

 

[CrypticOne]

My thoughts exactly. Although It got called 'Fanboy whining' when I said it earlier

Nah, it's not fanboy whining, people saying that are crazy and must not know how big a character like Two-Face is.

Spoiler

Two-Face is, to me, is basically the really dark side of Batman, he'll do anything to have true justice. I mean, you could see the perfect setup in the third film of Batman trying to stop Two-Face from killing all the mobsters in horrible ways. Batman and Two-Face have a connection to stop crime, like the mob. I mean, you could actually see scenes of Batman talking to Two-Face about Rachel and if she wanted it to be like this, the way Two-Face is killing the mobsters and things of that sort.

That is of coarse if Rachel dies in this film.

 

[DACrowe]

Well I'm avoid reading any spoilers albeit I already accidentally spoiled for myself that

Spoiler

Two-Face dies

.

Which while I honestly am looking more forward to Dent than Joker, if story developments are handled well I'll be happy. Fortunately I know nothing else of the ending to TDK and intend to keep it that way.

Anyway, I'm just posting that even if my predictions of how the ending is going to go (a cross between TLH and DV, but substitute Falcone with Joker and Robin with Jim Gordon)....that does not mean the series is going to end here.

If anything I imagine the third one could be in a complete world of the freaks and Gotham is in desperate need of rebuilding. And also like in Dark Victory, Bruce has lost his faith and needs help restoring it. I imagine they could introduce Robin in this way, but only have him appear at the very end and it could mirror how it happened in Dark Victory.

As for villains, well Batman has the best rogue gallery in comicdom. Sorry Spidey, but Batman has the most A-listers of any character. While I am of the opinion Joker, Two-Face and Ra's Al Ghul are his best villains, the top five isn't done. There is still Catwoman and I imagine that there could be warring factions of freaks overrunning where the mob is and this will be Batman's dark violent victory of restoring peace to Gotham City (if only temporarily) and for the first time he can feel he has made a real difference. This would be the perfect ending of the trilogy. As for new villains besides Catwoman, I think Riddler would fit well into Nolan's universe as would Mad Hatter (though I would prefer not to see him), Poison Ivy and/or crime boss Penguin. A combination of two or three of these (with one of them very small, like Scarecrow is supposed to be in TDK or Falcone in BB) will be more than enough villain eye candy for audiences.

 

[omid17]

Two-Face isn't really a villain in TDK, so technically Nolan is keeping his word even if:

Spoiler

he kills him off.

 

[itsthebatman]

This really is splitting hairs. Two-Face may be portrayed as a tragic character in this film, akin to how he is done in TLH, but he has classically been a villain in the comics. To say that by showing him as a vigilante in this film doesn't make him a villain

Spoiler

and therefore means Nolan doesn't break his promise about killing villains off even if Two-Face does die in this film

is really tortuous reasoning, worthy of a politician. The real tragedy of Harvey Dent is that he does become a villain after his accident, despite oroginally being such a nice guy.

 

[regwec]

Dent is a troubled vigilante, Two Face is a villain. [blackout]If both die[/blackout], then Nolan is a liar.

 

[Spidey28]

Two-Face may be portrayed as a vigilante, but that doesn't mean he's not a villain. He's murdering people. He's a criminal. That's the fine line that Batman walks between becoming what he's fighting against. It's interesting the White Knight does become what he's fighting against, yet the Dark Knight is able to maintain the fine line he walks.

Bottom line, Two-Face IS a villain in this film. He's a murderer for crying out loud.

 

[TLH]

This really is splitting hairs. Two-Face may be portrayed as a tragic character in this film, akin to how he is done in TLH, but he has classically been a villain in the comics. To say that by showing him as a vigilante in this film doesn't make him a villain

Spoiler

and therefore means Nolan doesn't break his promise about killing villains off even if Two-Face does die in this film

is really tortuous reasoning, worthy of a politician. The real tragedy of Harvey Dent is that he does become a villain after his accident, despite oroginally being such a nice guy.

Two-Face's score on the TDK soundtrack seems to be inspired by a similar stream of thought. Based on the tone of the score alone, I'd say what you've said is the best way we can expect the character to appear on screen.

 

[bkey]

Did Nolan actually say he would never kill off his villians?

I thought he just said thats something he didn't like about the earlier movies.

 

[turtlefocker]

Nolan killed Ra's too...

 

[TLH]

Nolan killed Ra's too...

We can only assume Ra's died. Technically we don't actually know.

 

[bkey]

Nolan killed Ra's too...

Exactly.

If killing the villian makes the story better, then by all means I don't have a problem. It's when they kill off the villian just for the sake of killing him that I might have a problem with it, and with this I seriously doubt that will be the case.

Plus, [BLACKOUT]by killing Two Face[/BLACKOUT], Nolan may be either not coming back for a third film, or maybe he has an even better story not involving that character at all.

 

[regwec]

If the [blackout]death[/blackout] of Dent was as ambiguous as that or Ra's, then no one would be worried. As it is, it seems we see him [blackout]dead and buried[/blackout]. Different kettle of fish.

 

[Sub-Zero]

since they're going for realism. i really doubt Ra's is alive. and i'd say the same about you know who...

 

[regwec]

Loose sentiment that "they" are going for realism does not change the bottom line that, if a director wanted to use Ra's in a future film, he could, without troubling the audience too much. The same could not be said of someone [blackout] we have seen put into the ground.[/blackout]

 

[bkey]

Especially if it is not in the same continuity of Nolan's films. Whoever is directing can use whatever villian they want.

 

[Sub-Zero]

i kinda think if another director takes over its not the same continuity. so anyone is fair game, no matter if we see them buried in the nolan movies.

 

[itsthebatman]

Dent is a troubled vigilante, Two Face is a villain. [blackout]If both die[/blackout], then Nolan is a liar.

Harsh words. It's that he repeats the mistakes of the first franchise, doing something he says he didn't like about those movies. Seems a bit hypocritical anyway.