The Dark Knight Harvey Dent/Two Face Thread

[DACrowe]

Me too. ^^

 

[Nirvana]

MTV Award Best On Screen Team: Bale, Oldman, Eckhart

 

[omid17]

yup

 

[magicangel1989]

I nearly jumped at the first sight of Two Face. CREEEEEPPYYY! And i don't think that Batman was wearing extra armor when he got shot, which totally shocked me!

Eckhart had the perfect Two Face voice....and i don't think Two Face is dead.

 

[ronny]

Question: When The Joker speaks to Harvey in the hospital how did you interpret Dent's reaction? At first he was struggling but then the look on his face starts to change and it kind of confuses me, is it silent acceptance of what Joker's saying? Or simmering hatred, waiting for the guy to shut up so he can kill him?

 

[IAmBatman]

Live long enough to see yourself become the villain..


Now, maybe this has been brought up in another thread but I haven't read every single thread here, nor feel the need to. If it has, just merge or delete this.

If not, my question is:

Did Harvey Dent die the hero, and Batman lived long enough to see himself become the villain?

Everyone I talk to tells me that Harvey Dent died the hero, and Two-Face became the villain. But I don't see it that way.

At the end Batman said that Harvey Dent was the hero the city needed. And he turned the murders he did, on himself promoting a hunt for him.

So, Harvey Dent really died the hero in the eyes of the public. And Batman was the villain.


Thoughts?

 

[Quinzel]

Harvey Dent killed a few people.

So yeah. lol.

 

[weezerspider]

The most ridiculous line in the movie. Its so cheesey.

 

[Ziggyman]

In the eyes of the public...Yes!...In the eyes of Gotham's heroes (Gordon, Batman, Dent)...No!

 

[Quinzel]

Hey, The only guys Dent actually got around to killing, were people batman fought.

Soooo, he just did what the B-man couldn't do himself, because of his Rule.

now, He was GONNA kill a kid, and the B-man.

But he never got around to actually doing it. lol.

 

[Batman137]

I should make a "Who thinks Harvey is still alive?" thread

 

[chaseter]

The most ridiculous line in the movie. Its so cheesey.

How is it cheesy? It is perfect foreshadowing and even better allegorically speaking. Harvey Dent died a hero to the public's eyes and Batman lived long enough to become the villian in the public's eyes but it was actually reverse.

 

[Quinzel]

I think people thought it was a cheesy line, just because they've heard it so much.

I know people who think "Why So Serious" is kinda lame

but they suck. lol.

 

[Meus]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this or even noticed this, but I personally don't believe Batman is The Dark Knight in this story, even though admittedly that alias is inherently his own in the comic books; but this could be a clever subtext in the film by Nolan.

“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”

That quote is ultimately the pretext, the main theme, behind the story. I see it as an evolution to that of which proceeded it in Batman Begins with Bruce's realisation that, in his attempt to fight the criminal underworld, he as a man is as weak and as potent as any other individual in the crowd. But as a symbol, he is more, he's just enough to make a difference. So it's no surprise that Nolan uses this form of mentality to be the ingredients for the success of his films.

After seeing the movie, the most memorable character to me was not breath-taking performance of Ledger's Joker, nor Batman's grit, or even Alfred's English wit, but I was the only one who considered Harvey Dent as the protagonist in this story. His transformation and overall meaning to the story is undeniable. He is the 'White Knight', but through his transformation, wouldn't it make more sense to identify him as the 'Dark Knight'?

Yes okay, you have an opposite to this White Knight, the Batman; they're both Knights in their own sense yet why is there a difference to justify the 'White/'Dark' metaphor? Is Batman really that dark? The one who ultimately rejects becoming that villain, and risks his own life to stay true to that principle? Or can Harvey Dent - the one who himself bought life to that quote, be seen as that Dark Knight?

In my eyes, there is simply more to justify Harvey Dent as the Dark Knight rather than the Batman. Just my 2 cents
​

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

ok???

 

[jackjack924]

No.

Harvey Dent was no knight by the end of this movie.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Haven't we had this topic before? But Batman is and always has been the Dark Knight. That's been his title ever since his earliest days in the comics.

 

[DeaDheaD]

Doesnt his tranformation make him Harvey Two-Face.........Two-Face is a villain right?

 

[The Chris]

Yeah Harvey isn't a knight anymore because he's no longer a hero at the end. Batman's The Dark Knight. Gordon calls him a Dark Knight at the end too.

 

[Shedhut]

Dent (does bad things, gets rewarded) died i as a martyr in the public's eyes as opposed to Batman (does good things, gets punished) who takes on Harvey's guilt and becomes prey.
What did you miss?

 

[Meus]

Doesnt his tranformation make him Harvey Two-Face..,,,,,,Two-Face is a villain right?

Yeah Harvey isn't a knight anymore because he's no longer a hero at the end. Batman's The Dark Knight. Gordon calls him a Dark Knight at the end too.

There is no distinction between Two-Face and Dent in the movie in terms of perception. The script was written in such a way where, despite the two names, they are ultimately the same person in my opinion, only Harvey just went through an inevitable transformation of hurt.

His Knight status is secured with that massive poster of him during his service at the end, he is that symbol of hope and bravery. A different kind of Knight. Everyone just assumes Batman is the real Dark Knight yet if you look at the story you will have more reason to see Dent as that Dark Knight
​

 

[storyteller]

The Knight fights for his kingdom. When Harvey becomes Two face, he ceases to fight for Gotham(only revenge for himself). He is a fallen white knight while Batman through the film is the Dark Knight. He fights for gotham but isnt the poster boy for being the man on top, the man everyone wants to be.

 

[Meus]

The Knight fights for his kingdom. When Harvey becomes Two face, he ceases to fight for Gotham(only revenge for himself). He is a fallen white knight while Batman through the film is the Dark Knight. He fights for gotham but isnt the poster boy for being the man on top, the man everyone wants to be.

That's a valid point, but I feel the transformation of Dent - his choice in becoming that villain, also transformed him from White to Black. Transformation here is a key point to my argument

 

[Nepenthes]

But he didn't transform. Ask any of the citizens of Gotham and they'll tell you, that's the truth. Harvey Dent died a hero, he remained the White Knight. While Batman is even more now the knight on the fringes, the outcast etc.

 

[kyuubijavi1]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this or even noticed this, but I personally don't believe Batman is The Dark Knight in this story, even though admittedly that alias is inherently his own in the comic books; but this could be a clever subtext in the film by Nolan.

“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”

That quote is ultimately the pretext, the main theme, behind the story. I see it as an evolution to that of which proceeded it in Batman Begins with Bruce's realisation that, in his attempt to fight the criminal underworld, he as a man is as weak and as potent as any other individual in the crowd. But as a symbol, he is more, he's just enough to make a difference. So it's no surprise that Nolan uses this form of mentality to be the ingredients for the success of his films.

After seeing the movie, the most memorable character to me was not breath-taking performance of Ledger's Joker, nor Batman's grit, or even Alfred's English wit, but I was the only one who considered Harvey Dent as the protagonist in this story. His transformation and overall meaning to the story is undeniable. He is the 'White Knight', but through his transformation, wouldn't it make more sense to identify him as the 'Dark Knight'?

Yes okay, you have an opposite to this White Knight, the Batman; they're both Knights in their own sense yet why is there a difference to justify the 'White/'Dark' metaphor? Is Batman really that dark? The one who ultimately rejects becoming that villain, and risks his own life to stay true to that principle? Or can Harvey Dent - the one who himself bought life to that quote, be seen as that Dark Knight?

In my eyes, there is simply more to justify Harvey Dent as the Dark Knight rather than the Batman. Just my 2 cents
​

If you listin to Gordan's final words it pretty much spells out why Dent was the white knight and bat's is the dark knight

now this is off the top of my head so

Gordan in Dent's funeral :: A hero, not the hero we deserved but the hero we needed. Nothing less than a knight.

Then Gordan to his son :: Because he’s the hero Gotham deserves. But not the one it needs right now. So well hunt him cause he can take it. Because he's not a hero but a silent guardian a watchful protector, a Dark Knight.

See Gotham needed a hero with a face thats why they (gordan and bat's) chose to keep his down fall a secret so he wasnt a dark knight but a villain in the end, while batman was seen as a hero that fell so he's more of a anti hero a dark knight.