Has Fox hit a dead end with their Marvel Properties?

[Tony Stark]

Let's face it folks, Fox has clearly burned out the X-men franchise. Apocalypse wasn't a bad movie, it wasn't a very good one either, but I do have to say it was the most "comic book" version of the franchise they have done.

Deadpool seems to be the only franchise they have left to have any staying power to it. I predicted that XMA would come in lower than DOFP, but I still predicted 90-100M for the 4 day weekend or about 10-20M less than DOFP. XMA underperformed to even the most modest of predictions.

I fail to see how another Wolverine solo movie and a Gambit movie are going to do any better for them. Add to the fact that Fox bet the farm on Channing Tatum being a bankable star, when the guy really hasn't been a huge box office draw, outside of Magic Mike.

Now this is not to underplay how huge of a hit Deadpool was. It was a refreshing take on the genre from a purely adult perspective, much like the first Kick Ass, only much, much more successful. I think Deadpool sequels could be very profitable, and maybe a summer release for the second one could be even bigger, but there's really no spin-off potential for this franchise.

Clearly franchise fatigue has set in on the X-men universe and I really don't see how they are going to push this forward with spin-offs.

I think Fox will have bigger hits with the new independence day and the 3rd installment of the Apes reboot. Other than Deadpool, I think they will be moving away from this franchise.

 

[Zarex]

Even before Apocalypse underperformed I thought the best course of action would be to center the X-Men franchise around lower cost films set in the present day. Leave the kids in the past and green light Deadpool solos, X-Force, New Mutants and perhaps even a sub $100M budget Gambit solo. Sprinkle in members of the popular OT cast. Keep the budgets low and set the ground work for a big budget mashup featuring the X-Force, New Mutants and OT X-Men teams.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I can't say yes because of Deadpool. Fox should probably focus less on the traditional X-Men and more on Deadpool, Cable, and X-Force in the future though. I think there is a lot more potential of doing big numbers there at the moment.

 

[Sithborg]

It is a 16 year old franchise. It is going to have its highs and lows.

 

[Spiderine]

I also predicted a lesser than stellar box office for X men. But mainly because it was the third big ensemble superhero film in the span two months. And more importantly it offered nothing fresh and unique to a genre that's getting more crowded. The appetite wasn't there for this film. It felt like a rehash.


Anyways to put it bluntly. Fox already has one Marvel property that is dead. May as well bury it. Xmen needs a serious shot of adrenaline. Its stale and repetitive. 16 years in can do that. They want to continue they better do something that can excite the fan base and bring in new audiences. Otherwise they can runDeadpool into the ground and just introduce X characters into Deadpool like they did Colossus

 

[Flint Marko]

They may not be at a dead end but they're certainly at a crossroads. Deadpool was so successful in spite of their complete lack of interest in the property, so who knows how they'll handle that going forward. The normal X-men team is a slowly dying brand, and at this point I'm not sure what they can do to save it.
But hey, at least they have the FF

 

[Tony Stark]

I can't say yes because of Deadpool. Fox should probably focus less on the traditional X-Men and more on Deadpool, Cable, and X-Force in the future though. I think there is a lot more potential of doing big numbers there at the moment.

Deadpool, definitely has alot of potential, no doubt there. I could see Cable with Deadpool, I just can't see it as a solo movie. I think Gambit will lose money. Channing Tatum is not the bankable star that Fox thought he was.

 

[Xrated48]

In my opinion their doing fine they are doing well with Deadpool and X-Men Apocalypse was at least a solid superhero film. The box office numbers yes are below expectations but it's still going to make around 600 million worldwide.

 

[Tony Stark]

The problem is that the reduced numbers may mean that it doesn't make money. I'm not sure what the break even point was and the published budget is 178M which does not include the advertising costs, means that it may well lose money. Plus this thing is likely to drop like a tank this coming weekend. An "A-" cinemascore isn't terrible, but generally superhero films perform well and an "A-" is merely OK in this genre.

 

[OcStat]

Besides Deadpool, there does seem to be an air of finality to the X-Men films at the moment. Finishing off a trilogy, and the final Jackman film around the corner.

I don't see any of their planned spin offs being long term franchises the way the X-Men movies were.

I haven't seen Apocalypse yet, so this may change but at the moment I don't have an interest in seeing the new cast in a '90's film as has been mentioned. I think moving forward a decade each film has become predictable and four in a row sounds excessive.

 

[sleekstereo]

I don't think you can make that assumption based on one film. Now, if they have three X-Men films that under perform in a row? There is a huge problem.

What hurt Apocalypse more than anything is the lackluster marketing campaign. If you compare it to Deadpool's marketing, it was pitiful.

 

[InternetPeople]

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/30/11789288/x-men-apocalypse-superhero-movies-out-of-ideas

The relevant bits:
"It’s a movie, then, that should serve as a warning to other filmmakers and studios as they pursue a strategy that bets heavily on superhero movies and other long-running film serieshttp://www.vox.com/2016/1/27/10835032/expanded-movie-universes-franchises: This is what happens when a franchise runs out of ideas."

"He’s a cheesy villain, not a relatable character with a reason for his actions. That’s a big transition from Singer’s previous X-films, which grounded their mutant battles in culturally relevant debates about how outcasts should engage with the rest of society. Most of those debates were housed in the relationship between the leader of the X-Men, Professor X, who argued for an open and productive relationship with human society, and the mutant rebel leader Magneto, who tended to support a more aggressive, oppositional stance against humans. But in Apocalypse, that conflict is almost entirely absent, and so is the rivalry between Professor X and Magneto that has long served as a backbone for the series."

"Several older characters, including Grey and Summers, appear in the form of newly recast young actors via the magic of the complex time travel–related continuity reset at the end of Days of Future Past. But the specifics of the how the new continuity works, and how all the different timelines fit together, are terribly unclear. They appear to have been worked out mostly to allow for the cheaper, younger cast to step in and take over.
Viewed this way, the motivations start to make more sense — not as narrative but as franchise imperative. X-Men: Apocalypse’s story and characters only make sense as a series of business decisions. It’s less of a movie and more of a two-and-a-half-hour announcement of a new franchise marketing plan."


"The movie only exists because the X-Men franchise must go on, at least on the studio's eyes.

This is one of the big dangers for the extended franchise model of filmmaking — that characters and series will be kept alive not because there’s a story to tell, but because the franchise must be kept alive."


It's a good read that also touches on Marvel and Spiderman.

 

[NHawk19]

Fox has always been pretty linear with the way they've handled their stories. X1 - > X2 ->X3 etc. Even with DOFP they still loop back on the same timeline and start a single story moving forward. The extent of their branching out was Wolverine and that was ok at best, but you never really had anything setup to come next or anything to tie properties except a cameo by Jean or Cyclops.

With Deadpool they may expand on that, but even Pool wasn't sure where he fit in. (McAvoy or Stewart?). If they want to get out of their rut they'll need to take a serious inventory of what they own, and put a plan in place which builds on Cable, X-Force, The Starjammers, etc. Then they need to find a way to link it subtlety.

Fox, Sony, WB, they seem to want to kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs by rushing everything.

 

[OcStat]

Like I said I haven't seen Apocalypse but I'm really hoping it serves as a bridge between this trilogy and the OT. Knowing they want to squeeze in a '90's movie though, makes me think that isn't likely.

X-Men takes place in "The Not to Distant Future". But now we're getting to a point where, no, it takes place in the early 2000's, because Cyclops, Jean and others joined Xavier's school in the '80s but even then the age they should be according to this new timeline (late 40s?) doesn't match how old they are in the original film (mid 20s?).

 

[Tony Stark]

But my question would be, does expanding out really help this franchise? I can see Cable working in Deadpool's continuity, but an X-Force film? Is anyone but a seriously hardcore X-men fan going to watch that.

In the first series of films, there was an understanding that the films worked, largely due to Steward, McKellum and Jackman. Wolverine was Marvel's second biggest property after Spider-man, so one could understand making Wolverine centric films. But it came at the cost of making other characters that people cared about.

The problem with the First class films is they never fully felt like a reboot, and there are continuity errors to make them not suitable for prequels. I feel that people didn't totally embrace the First Class trilogy, other than DOFP, which is more of an apology film for The Last Stand than anything else.

One thing is clear. Kinberg needs to go. He's more of a liability than an asset. His writing is terrible. I think he's an OK producer, but he's clearly not opening opportunities for Fox.

 

[chamber-music]

Fox is going to do with the spin offs what Marvel is doing. By that I mean have a different genre template for each film.

Deadpool was Comedy and Romance movie while also being a superhero movie.

Gambit has been confirmed as a heist film. The Thieves/Assassins guild stuff also has the Romeo and Juliet star crossed lovers story beats in the comics which could be adapted.

New Mutants is said to be John Hughes eighties teen movies meets Stephen King supernatural horror.

As long as Fox keeps this path of diversifying the X-franchise it could survive for another decade probably.

If X-Force is made then it should be like the comics with a paramilitary/black ops squad type vibe.

The main X-Men franchise probably needs a rest for a few years. Fox should do the spin offs and then have a new creative writer and director come in to freshen up the main franchise again.

 

[Zant]

Dead end? I remember people saying that in 2009 after Origins came out. I guess its that time again.

 

[First Avenger]

Dead end? I remember people saying that in 2009 after Origins came out. I guess its that time again.

Things have changed since 2009. Marvel Studios exploded while others are trying to keep up with them and mostly failing (ASM2,BvS and now Apocalypse). DoFP was Fox's response to Avengers success and it worked great for them,Deadpool too (even if they didn't want to do that) worked too,but in the meantime they killed the Fantastic Four and made a bad/mediocre X-Men movie. I say they should at least free the F4,then concentrate on DP/X-Force while reconsidering their plans for X-Men in order to make some good profits. I would also scrap Gambit or give it a low budget.

 

[Aztec]

Dead end? I remember people saying that in 2009 after Origins came out. I guess its that time again.

Totally different cinematic landscape since then. Marvel has absolutely single handedly changed the game in big budget film making. They have been remarkably successful by diversifying their characters, genres, and tone. All the while providing fun mass market action flicks.

This concept has been imitated, poorly, by Sony, WB, and Fox. The first failed completely, the second is in the middle of disasterous start, and the third (aside from Deadpool) has clearly run out of ideas. Outside of DP, Fox is at a serious crossroads. Don't try to sugar coat it, XMA bombed by big budget standards this weekend. Yup $65M domestic in the US in 2016 is a bomb!

If I were at Fox, and that's a scary concept, I'd quickly finish up Wolvie's swan song and then return to the present day with DP and company. How would I do it? With Marvel's help. All leading up to a Secret Wars style cross over between X-Men/Avengers vs Galactus.

 

[Sithborg]

Totally different cinematic landscape since then. Marvel has absolutely single handedly changed the game in big budget film making. They have been remarkably successful by diversifying their characters, genres, and tone. All the while providing fun mass market action flicks.

This concept has been imitated, poorly, by Sony, WB, and Fox. The first failed completely, the second is in the middle of disasterous start, and the third (aside from Deadpool) has clearly run out of ideas. Outside of DP, Fox is at a serious crossroads. Don't try to sugar coat it, XMA bombed by big budget standards this weekend. Yup $65M domestic in the US in 2016 is a bomb!

If I were at Fox, and that's a scary concept, I'd quickly finish up Wolvie's swan song and then return to the present day with DP and company. How would I do it? With Marvel's help. All leading up to a Secret Wars style cross over between X-Men/Avengers vs Galactus.

Or expectations have been seriously twisted.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Fox has a bit of a problem in that there are no easy answers to fix the declining interest in X-Men. Even when the films get great reviews, they don't do all that well. Deadpool is the one thing that has really been huge, so that's why I'd head more in that direction. But I'll admit that I have no idea if it would work. Just that there is potential.

Even though on the surface, DC is having bigger problems, I would much rather be them right now. At least with DC, the problem is obvious (its name rhymes with 'hack').

 

[Mad Ones]

nope

 

[OcStat]

There's always the possibility that a Deadpool sequel could be viewed as "more of the same" like what happened with AoU, depending on how the movie is developed. I imagine they would want to do something like 22 Jump Street and kind of mock the idea of the sequel in the movie.

Though I haven't seen either Deadpool or 22.

I just don't see a Deadpool sequel blowing up like the first movie unless it again provides something radically different than what is usually expected, and movies rarely capture that magic twice in a row. Or twice at all.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yes I'd definetly think they've hit a dead end.

 

[Spiderine]

The FOX heads sort of took a hands off approach to Deadpool and just let those guys do their thing. The question is will that happen again? Or will they try to steer things in a different direction? These studio morons do it all the time.

Especially if they decide they want to some how capitalize more on Deadpool to help revitalize Xmen.