HBO's True Detective - Part 2

[ThePhantasm]

The bad guys pretty much win, unless the story ever gets published... rubbish storytellling.

I think you mean noir storytelling.

 

[Orb]

The ending made it for me. It was a noir through the end. I really rooted for Ray to live as he was my favorite. But Frank grew on me on the last few episodes and his ending was my favourite. Very beautiful and very fitting, and a nice little bizarre, supernatural moment reminiscing Season 1. Slow and sluggish season but good ending.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Wait... Now it's bad storytelling if bad guys win? C'mon.

 

[Sawyer]

I reasonably liked the finale, but I mean.... I just don't f***ing know. The preceding seven episodes, to me, were like 15% good stuff and 85% me just sort of staring blankly at the screen as they talked at length about characters I had no ****ing recollection of/nonsense dialogue/acting that wasn't quite good enough to overcome the quality of the dialogue/establishing shots up the mother****ing wazoo. I don't know.

They might have ended well, but that's not gonna make me forget how little I cared about what was going on for most of the time leading up to it.

 

[Marvolo]

I think you mean noir storytelling.

Speaking of noir, and I doubt HBO would do it, but how would yall feel about one season being an actual noir story set in the 40s? A full blown noir piece. Black and white cinematography included.

 

[childeroland]

I thought it was heavily implied the story will be published. The reporter has done exposes before, and his life doesn't seem to be in immediate danger.

 

[antsman41]

Wait... Now it's bad storytelling if bad guys win? C'mon.

Not necessarily, but all of it was for naught. Why watch these three fools fail? Nothing was fun or worthwhile on his ride. At least some sort of payoff for their troubles and ours would have helped. The Americans again were no name devices. Masuka/Dude from Orphan Black/the black sherif guy/Russian ****wad were all stupid ass protagonists that brought nothing to the table and won in the end (a news article happening maybe after the season ends doesn't count).
Let alone this whole thing with the kids and them being vigilantes was idiotic and pointless once again.

Last year the rollout out of the dirty weird dudes gaining power through religion and politics while trying to hide things made sense and was entertaining even with time jumps and tangents through Russ/"woody" lives and minds.

Ani's backstory was dumb, Ray's was ok but his ex-wife and kid thing was just meh, Woodrough's gay scare was not really with the times, and every scene with VV and his wife was terribly acted or random.

All of those reasons made this season's storytelling suck.

Also, ghost dad and ****? Really? You should never go full ghost dad... (The Newsroom/Dexter)

 

[Marvolo]

The destination isn't the only purpose of a story. The journey itself is just as important. This journey had its fair share of bumps, but an unhappy ending isn't necessarily one of them.

 

[Evelisse]

I'm still trying to figure how Ray at least trying to get to a public crowded place to at least attempt to slip away was the bad idea? Were they gonna open fire either way in like a super packed mall? Not even a slight better chance getting away?

 

[kvz5]

This season really started slow (and bad) for me but I thought the the second half made up for it. Really nice season finale and the [blackout]tragic [/blackout]ending for our heroes worked for me.

 

[Marvolo]

I'm still trying to figure how Ray at least trying to get to a public crowded place to at least attempt to slip away was the bad idea? Were they gonna open fire either way in like a super packed mall? Not even a slight better chance getting away?

Yeah, that didn't make any sense unless he was hoping he could hide the cash for his son.

 

[BeaverJuk]

I enjoyed the season but the revelation on who killed caspere was weak.
It was the most intriguing plot point and seemed that the killer was involved in something larger but just turned out to be a screwed up kid looking for revenge it felt like a letdown.

 

[runawayboulder]

Wait... Now it's bad storytelling if bad guys win? C'mon.

Yeah, I take those kind of comments and put them right along side of ones about there not being a 20 something starlet showing her jugs this year.

The best part of the season ending is all the crying will stop.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Okay, what the hell is going on here? I'm reading so many bad things about the finale on Neogaf it's insane.

I think that was a GREAT season finale, like are the negative people pissed because the end was bittersweet (euphemism )? Sure, I'm pissed Ray didn't get to get out in time and that "Unable to upload" thingy was just cruel (I can imagine Pizzaman laughing maniacally while writing this "NOPE DARKNESS ALL THE WAY" ) but it's all so well shot, well scored, the tension i thought was through the roof, the performances top notch (yeah even Vince, once he started talking like an actual human being (which is like two episodes before the end, coincidentally, I've seen the theory that he might have actually tried to make himself look as someone he's not, hence using a lot of elaborate, eye rolling vocabulary and whatnot, that's actually not a bad point).


Anyway, for me, top notch ending to a flawed season that I still liked a lot, not anywhere near season 1 but still very good in its own, separate way. And god, did Colin slay it ! Rachel McAdams also did great.

 

[Schlosser85]

I could actually see Mel Gibson being great on this as some old weathered detective.

I could see Tom Hardy and Jessica Chastain fitting in.

 

[P Supreme]

So Frank's wife and McAdams character going to raise a baby together?

Loved Frank and Velcoro all season long and hated how they went

Hope next season makes up for this cause it was brutal just getting to the finale and then to have the dirty players basically get away

 

[The Shape]

Speaking of noir, and I doubt HBO would do it, but how would yall feel about one season being an actual noir story set in the 40s? A full blown noir piece. Black and white cinematography included.

I would ****ing love that.

 

[MadVillainy]

I reasonably liked the finale, but I mean.... I just don't f***ing know. The preceding seven episodes, to me, were like 15% good stuff and 85% me just sort of staring blankly at the screen as they talked at length about characters I had no ****ing recollection of/nonsense dialogue/acting that wasn't quite good enough to overcome the quality of the dialogue/establishing shots up the mother****ing wazoo. I don't know.

They might have ended well, but that's not gonna make me forget how little I cared about what was going on for most of the time leading up to it.

This.

 

[Supernova]

This season and finale left a bad taste in my mouth honestly. Granted none of these characters were traditional heroes at all but the 3 main cops I began to root for in the end all meeting there own ends really ticked me off. Franks death was out of left field and came off as if the writers didnt know what to do with him so just have the mexicans randomly show up and find him at a red light.

I didnt like how they left it open ended with whether the reporter would publish the story or not given how were never gonna see these chracters ever again. I also didnt like how they let the audience know ray actually had a lot to live for in the closing montage. Just kind of lazy writing all the way through.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It was pretty much what I expected in a way. Being that this season's mystery took a back seat, though there was going to be conclusion, it was still going to have less priority than wrapping up the characters stories which was done so beautifully. No reason why that was going to suddenly change by the last episode. Honestly, I'd be angry over this season if the characters sucked and they didn't have much arc to them but the character development was just so on point that made up for the lack of focus in the mystery. Pizzolatto said too that it always went back to the characters and the mystery within themselves. And we finally understand what those damn trees meant in the closing of the opening credits.

Ray biting it seemed like a given. That scene when Ray was just standing there after he found the tracker under his car. Goddamn that was nailbiting. I thought it was a bomb at first.

Ray and Frank's assault was incredibly badass and rewarding.

It sucked that Ray didn't make it as I was really rooting for him, but what he did in this episode wasn't for nothing. He got to say goodbye to his son which made me teary eyed, he is the legitimate father to him so despite everything going against him and all the doubt, his sole belief paid off and it was always true to him. And he got a second son out of all of it.

They forshadowed to his death in the opening of episode three where his father told him about him running through the huge trees and how they shot him down. A part of me wished he would become Rambo and kill everybody but that was never going to happen. The failed to upload was sad, but I always felt those recordings were more for Ray anyway. And his son doesn't need those to remember who his father was. Him keeping the badge and recognizing his father was all that he needed.

Frank's last moments were terrific. Really different and new from what I've seen and very poignant. I didn't think both men wouldn't make it out. And he and Jordan's final scene was just incredible writing and acting. They felt like real human beings. No longer people who they pretended to be.

And Ani getting away and revealing the truth to the reporter who Ray ****ed up in the first episode was so on point. The bad guys got away, but with their evidence all there, we can presume that a) it will expose everything and they'll all go down and justice will be served or b) Vinci will still get away with it and beat the system because it's just so in their favor.

This finale was intense and emotional and bittersweet as opposed to last season's more hopeful ending. It's really how I thought last season would end. But regardless, I loved the emphasis on character and how all their stories wrapped up.

Though I'm unclear where Ani and Jordan are heading at the end of the episode. Are they moving on to another country, knowing that just to be safe, this may not go as down smoothly? Or are they heading back home?

 

[Tim_Riggins]

I feel like you nailed it about Ray, Frank, and Ani. Everything the characters did in this season finale was true to who they are and even though it's bittersweet, they got to do what they were supposed to do.

That Frank desert scene was so beautiful and a real standout, say what you will about Pizzaman but you just don't see that type of thing often. I'm really starting to think indeed that, like you say, Frank & Jordan pretended to be someone they're not, mostly Frank when he had those grand speeches with stuff like "blue balls in your heart", I don't think it's a coincidence that when he was stripped to his core in the last episodes, that made him so much more compelling.


The real deal, even though it probably sounds obvious, in this story or stories overall is to find that humanity in your characters, that truth.

I like that, to me, those last two episodes really took an unexpected turn in a way, whether it is the score that became more emotional in harmony with the story, the Ray & Ani burgeoning relationship is I think really beautiful, believable, Frank, Paul, Ray and his son.

I don't know if overall, if you were to gauge the overall reaction about this season, the word would be mostly negative, I feel like it's a clear "mixed reaction", but I admire what Nic Pizzolato did here, it wasn't easy, it has been wildly divisive, but in my opinion, this is still high level quality stuff, very well shot, scored, definitely way messier than the tight first season, but I like the ambition and I think the last two, three episodes sold Pizzaman's overall vision.

Even if it's a PC statement and those guys probably wouldn't say anything negative, I totally believe that HBO is very happy with what he delivered and will want more.

My wish would be for Colin to get, hopefully, some awards recognition, Emmys, or else, I really think his work here is worthy of it.

 

[Kane52630]

Speaking of noir, and I doubt HBO would do it, but how would yall feel about one season being an actual noir story set in the 40s? A full blown noir piece. Black and white cinematography included.

I would absolutely ****in love it if they do it.

 

[TheBat812]

This was classic noir based on the theme 'You get the world you deserve.'

Great finale and season. I loved the things that some people are upset about. The red herring of some conspiracy commited by the birdman, only to learn it was the horrible acts of the corrupt that created a distraught young man and woman who brought justice and retribution to a few involved.

It was an incredibly bittersweet ending and it really hit me hard. Of course, I haven't really had a hard time following this season compared to most, so I was really into the characters and the stories, and I loved that we were only really privy to what the characters knew. Once things were figured out, it all got a lot simpler, but of course the karma they'd accrued was bound to get them in the end, as the above theme suggests. Happy though that Bezzerites and Frank's wife got what they deserved as innocents thrust into bad situations, given a new lease on life with a young one to protect and take care of.

Only guys who got away was the piece of **** cop who shot Paul in the back and killed ray, as well as Tony the new mayor, but you definitely get the sense that justice is on its way via the upcoming expose thanks to Bezzerites evidence.

Man, this was a really great noir story. Classic noir. Season 1 was amazing because it was a detective story with many noir elements, but this was much more classic and twisting and turning the way they've typically been. More red herrings that end up being resolved in a simple way that appeared to be more intricate on the surface. Loved all the characters all season as well, and once again, the end really hit me hard. Ray finally had a good moment with his son that he could walk away happy with, only to have that decision to get that moment bite him in the ass. Frank, with his business deal gone sour leading him into a horrible situation, and then his pride being his downfall in getting him stabbed.

I also do agree, and I thought this was clear, that Frank is a character putting on an act throughout the whole show as the person he thought he had to be in order to succeed, but not the person he wanted to be. That's what made him interesting, was the person he was with his wife was incredibly good natured and optimistic, a fantastic juxtaposition with the badass he could be when in 'work' mode. Lots and lots of tragic characters getting what's coming to them even though you're rooting for their success, despite the inevitability of their downfall. Man, when they successfully, and quite easily, destroy that cabin in the woods, you knew something bad was a brewing.

Anyways, I know this season was a disappointment to many, but I ****ing loved it. Hopefully with repeated viewings, others will learn to appreciate what they were able to do with this season. It's kind of like Nolan movies (who, unsurprisingly, also loves noir) where the first watch is a bit tougher and less emotional because you're so busy trying to figure out what the hell is going on, but the second viewing allows you to really appreciate the characters and the story because you can focus on things beyond acquiring the information needed to follow the story. The writing in this season had some sour moments, and the staggered directing lead to some bizarre changing in pace in some moments, but overall it was one of the best noir stories I've seen in years, playing with convention and subverting it in ways that really enhanced the characters and the themes they were exploring. Really excited to see what kind of noir they'll tackle for next season!

Oh, and Doctor Jones, I think Ani and Jordan are just heading out to start their new lives away from the mess they left behind, now that they've passed the evidence off to others, they're putting it behind them. Which was hopeful, in that that's what Frank and Ray wanted for them.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

I think it'll probably flow much better (not that it didn't to me, just sayin) in a full rewatch. I do love that little nugget at the end of Ani saying "his sonS", for a sec, I was like "wut?" and then seeing Jordan with the baby & Ani and I was feeling that Pizzaman did give us hope in the end.

I wish Ray's recordings could have been uploaded to Chad but it felt like it was therapeutical to him and that one moment btw Chad & Ray with the police badge, the salute, it was just perfect, that + the story will blow wide open and people will know the kind of man he was.

 

[Assassin32]

I liked the season finale. I finally knew why most of the action taking place was occurring. But I do wish that we had been given a little victory, like the voice recording going through, because what goes down in Central America over a year later doesn't grant much solace. Damn, it was all so dark and hopeless and full of despair. I also wish that Ani had been allowed to be a more proactive character throughout the episode.

Here's hoping season three is a return to form.