Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[Greenlite]

It can even be argued that Cap, although an altrustic hero like Supes has a little more edge than Superman does. The First Avenger, although a good movie didnt set the world on fire, its tone was more whimsical and innocent. Then, they turned Cap into Jason Bourne with Winter Soldier, and people really started paying attention to the character.

Cap has values like Supes but hes allowed to be pushed a little further than Supes. I'm not saying it cant be done, I definitely believe the right director and right script can make a big successful Superman movie thats uplifting and optimistic in tone but I think Snyder had the right impulse to make him more vulnerable, more imperfect, more human so that audiences can latch onto him more than the old fuddy duddy image I think a lot of the GA still has about the character. Its just that his execution wasnt where it needed to be to connect to a large audience.

Ya I loved Winter Soldier and how bada$$ Cap was, but then we never got a proper solo sequel neither, lol.

I want to see righteous man taking a$$es and kicking names

 

[flickchick85]

It can even be argued that Cap, although an altrustic hero like Supes has a little more edge than Superman does. The First Avenger, although a good movie didnt set the world on fire, its tone was more whimsical and innocent. Then, they turned Cap into Jason Bourne with Winter Soldier, and people really started paying attention to the character.

Cap has values like Supes but hes allowed to be pushed a little further than Supes. I'm not saying it cant be done, I definitely believe the right director and right script can make a big successful Superman movie thats uplifting and optimistic in tone but I think Snyder had the right impulse to make him more vulnerable, more imperfect, more human so that audiences can latch onto him more than the old fuddy duddy image I think a lot of the GA still has about the character. Its just that his execution wasnt where it needed to be to connect to a large audience.

I agree with everything here up until the "Snyder had the right impulse" note, because I think the right impulse would've been to focus on the thing Supes generally has over Cap - he's a good-humored dude. He's not so tightly-wound as Cap - He enjoys his life, he has fun with his powers. He maintains general positivity most of the time, and would actually be a fun guy to have a beer and watch football with. There's nothing out-of-date about that kind of characterization, as the modern version of that type of guy very much still exists, and is quite different from what Reeve gave us, so it's not a "stuck in the past" approach. On Elseworlds tonight, Tyler Hoechlin continued to give us that guy, and he didn't seem stuck in the past at all. Cap and Supes are both flip-sides of the same coin in terms of character type, but Cap has the added "edginess" and Supes has his good humor. Aside from powers, those are the things that set them apart, imo. The "right impulse" would've been to follow that thread, imo, not go in the opposite direction.

 

[Greenlite]

I understand team Cavill wanted to get more control, he deserves it after getting ripped off twice in BvS TC and JL, but the Hamada team wasn't wrong to give him a packaged offer with restraint to salary and control, Hamada could have just given it a hard pass.

And MI6 was a pretty dumb card to play as an ace, lol, HC was a miscast for the role, he's too hot and eye catching.

I wished they could have nudge each other to a consensus, but it wasn't to be. Maybe it was an abusive thing, who knows? lol.

It does mess D Sandberg a bit and we lose Amy Adams, should have given her a producer role she could probably give you what Margot Robbie is doing with Harley. Amy's on the up man.

Maybe HC becomes hot property with the witcher and then WB's happy to pay him again, or he bombs with the character and comes back to WB....video games usually bomb on live adaptation.....or he becomes Bond which would be sweeter than being Superman but I doubt that will happen

 

[Superchan]

Care to share a link to this info? Cause the deal they agreed to and later tried to go back on was this:

Warner Brothers attempted to negotiate an agreement with Siegel's heirs in order to retain Siegel's half of the rights to Superman. On October 16, 2001, Warner made an offer. Warner offered a payment of $3 million, an annual stipend of $500,000, a 6% royalty of Superman and a 1% royalty of his publications, and full medical benefits. Warner also agreed to insert the line "By Special Arrangement with the Jerry Siegel Family" in all future Superman productions. The Siegel heirs accepted this offer in an October 19 letter released by their lawyer, Kevin Marks

I have not seen the 5year mandate thing elsewhere but here.

I don't have a link, I'm basing this on the fact that MOS was fast tracked due in part to the fact that a superman movie had to be out by 2013, so I assumed that it meant that a superman movie had to go into active production every 5 years or so; although from the info you provided it seems that I was wrong, which means we might not see another superman movie for a decade or more.......thanks alot bald Narcissus you just crushed all my hopes.

 

[MbJ]

I understand team Cavill wanted to get more control, he deserves it after getting ripped off twice in BvS TC and JL, but the Hamada team wasn't wrong to give him a packaged offer with restraint to salary and control, Hamada could have just given it a hard pass.

And MI6 was a pretty dumb card to play as an ace, lol, HC was a miscast for the role, he's too hot and eye catching.

I wished they could have nudge each other to a consensus, but it wasn't to be. Maybe it was an abusive thing, who knows? lol.

It does mess D Sandberg a bit and we lose Amy Adams, should have given her a producer role she could probably give you what Margot Robbie is doing with Harley. Amy's on the up man.

Maybe HC becomes hot property with the witcher and then WB's happy to pay him again, or he bombs with the character and comes back to WB....video games usually bomb on live adaptation.....or he becomes Bond which would be sweeter than being Superman but I doubt that will happen

His manager is in charge of some a-list talent like Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, and that likely informed the way negotiations went. The problem with adopting those sort of hardball tactics is A) Henry Cavill is nowhere near as big a star as the Rock, and as mentioned, his non-Superman projects have not been terribly successful B) the actual reception to his Superman movies was divisive at best and while profitable, still did not do as well as they could have and the studio was obviously not satisfied with their grosses C) Superman is a character like James Bond where audiences have shown they are more than willing to accept a new actor in the role (this applies to Batfleck as well).

To use an analogy I brought up a while back, they went into these negotiations acting like Henry was the DCEU's Robert Downey Jr., when unfortunately, he was more DC's Andrew Garfield; someone who is talented and has his fans, but is not so integral to the character that audiences won't move onto the next guy in the suit as soon as he's out the door.

 

[BH/HHH]

Back away ? I don't get this statement, he's the one who's tried to make something work, has he not. Maybe I've mis-read these last few months but it's WB that have **cked him about, he's merely been assigned new work and cracked on, he's not backed away as such.

It’s Cavill’s agent that has ****ed him. WB are not happy with her at all, she was demanding too much Money. End of the day it’s WBs money and given how Cavill’s film have done you can understand them not wanting to give him Downey Jr money which is what has been rumoured.

 

[Superherofan123]

I’ve got a feeling Cavill will come around. I may be totally off base, but I’ve got a good feeling about it. Again, if they had finished Snyders vision properly with JL I don’t think we’d be here.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I just can't see how they can sit around a table and not be excited about the character and what they can do on camera that hasn't been done before.. Honestly, how many mainstream heroes have a secret identity hidden behind a daily life in between saving the world, a fortress of solitude in the arctic, can fly, bounce bullets off his chest, there are so many things that he can do that can come across as so fun in a movie that will appeal to all in the family.

It's like a Spiderman, Thor, Captain America all in one. Why can't they just embrace that and run with it.

And that's just the surface. Superman has a huge universe with incredible potential. Not to mention the Super-Family.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Henry was superman in a time where superhero movies are as big as they'll ever be and still no one really cared. That's a problem. Superman is THE superhero. The Godfather. And yet the last few movies the character has been in have either been forgotten by the general audience or heavily panned (not Henry's fault). But he shouldn't get paid like he wants because he isn't a household name yet. Mission Impossible did well for his body of work/recognition, but he's still not a bonafide draw yet. Maybe Witcher will change that. In that regard, I understand WB's hesitance to give him what he wants. Too bad they just suck at everything else and are at fault for mostly everything thats happened post Dark Knight Rises.

The Rock's wife being completely in over her head as Henry's agent also hasn't helped the situation.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I don't have a link, I'm basing this on the fact that MOS was fast tracked due in part to the fact that a superman movie had to be out by 2013, so I assumed that it meant that a superman movie had to go into active production every 5 years or so; although from the info you provided it seems that I was wrong, which means we might not see another superman movie for a decade or more.......thanks alot bald Narcissus you just crushed all my hopes.

I want another Superman movie too, bald man. I don't care if its connected or not to the current film universe, just want one. Also, none of the Superman references in Shazam have been removed, so keep the faith.

 

[_Superman_]

The problem with Superman is that people look at him in both the comics and media and expect to see Reeve/Donner's Superman when he hasn't been that way in a while at least in the comics. People tend to think Superman is always smiling even when fighting a villain when in reality Superman smiles when around Lois or reassuring the public everything is alright. When he is with the JL he is mostly serious when fighting a villain he is mostly serious. It is Clark Kent who does most of the smiling. But that's the problem I think. Cavill's Superman was more inline with the comics than most realize.

 

[Black Narcissus]

The problem with Superman is that people look at him in both the comics and media and expect to see Reeve/Donner's Superman .

Not making a Superman movie in the 90s is what still kinda leads to this. Sure, we got them shows with smallville and Lois and Clark stuff, but Supes was still missing on the big screen, a gap. Imagine if Tim Burton's Batman was still to this day considered the best Batman in which new Batman movies are compared to today. What a shame that would be. I'm glad WW got over the Lynda Carter comparisons.

 

[_Superman_]

Not making a Superman movie in the 90s is what still kinda leads to this. Sure, we got them shows with smallville and Lois and Clark stuff, but Supes was still missing on the big screen, a gap. Imagine if Tim Burton's Batman was still to this day considered the best Batman in which new Batman movies are compared to today. What a shame that would be. I'm glad WW got over the Lynda Carter comparisons.

Superman was missing in Smallville as well. Welling/SV split the fan base as well as SR. Look at Timm's Superman while liked people still had issues with him because he was Batman's whipping boy and one hit from anyone and he was out of the battle. In all honesty when it comes to Superman you have to find the perfect balance or it won't be accepted. Which means finding the perfect balance between comic Superman and how he has been portrayed on the big screen and TV. Reeve's Superman worked because he was the prefect example of Silver Age Superman which was still going at the time. But that Superman is gone now and they need to find a perfect balance between the current Superman and what has come before and that won't be easy.

 

[misslane38]

Henry was superman in a time where superhero movies are as big as they'll ever be and still no one really cared. That's a problem. Superman is THE superhero. The Godfather. And yet the last few movies the character has been in have either been forgotten by the general audience or heavily panned (not Henry's fault).

I feel like nostalgia, and its flip side apathy, is a double edged sword and not the slam dunk you make it out to be. Most of the superhero success you cite came in the form of properties no one had ever seen in live action before, so not only were the stories fresh but the actors and stories had the freedom to define and establish themselves in their own right. What seems to have mileage now is the caricature or the cliche of Superman, which is what Hoechlin's still is at this point. As a guest and supporting character, he has yet to carry a narrative or have much in the way of character development. He is mostly what a catchphrase in comedy is; that's fun, but it's limited. Hoechlin's Superman and even Brightburn both illustrate how the icon of Superman has swallowed up the character leaving mostly metatext, making it so he just riffed on (Supergirl) or deconstructed (Brightburn) rather than developed as a genuine character.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Also, none of the Superman references in Shazam have been removed, so keep the faith.

If they haven't, and we are in a connected universe (allegedly still), then why is Cavill not present ? If they are still present and Cavill is pulled, then either way I'm f**king fuming.

 

[_Superman_]

I feel like nostalgia, and its flip side apathy, is a double edged sword and not the slam dunk you make it out to be. Most of the superhero success you cite came in the form of properties no one had ever seen in live action before, so not only were the stories fresh but the actors and stories had the freedom to define and establish themselves in their own right. What seems to have mileage now is the caricature or the cliche of Superman, which is what Hoechlin's still is at this point. As a guest and supporting character, he has yet to carry a narrative or have much in the way of character development. He is mostly what a catchphrase in comedy is; that's fun, but it's limited. Hoechlin's Superman and even Brightburn both illustrate how the icon of Superman has swalloed up the character and leaving mostly just metatext, making it so he just riffed on (Supergirl) or deconstructed (Brightburn) rather than developed as genuine character.

Agreed.

 

[Black Narcissus]

If they haven't, and we are in a connected universe (allegedly still), then why is Cavill not present ?

1. Ask his agent why he ain't there. lol
2. The references don't call for a Superman appearance. Well, not in a serious way. I don't consider this a spoiler but Shazam calls out for Superman to help him in a scene, which will probably get laughs.

 

[BH/HHH]

I’ve got a feeling Cavill will come around. I may be totally off base, but I’ve got a good feeling about it. Again, if they had finished Snyders vision properly with JL I don’t think we’d be here.

I really hope you’re right but say he does is the offer still on the table for him? Or has that ship sailed?

 

[Mandon Knight]

1. Ask his agent why he ain't there. lol
2. The references don't call for a Superman appearance. Well, not in a serious way. I don't consider this a spoiler but Shazam calls out for Superman to help him in a scene, which will probably get laughs.

Then regards to point 2, that's even more insulting. I'm f**king done with this mess of a sh** show.

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[Mandon Knight]

As you know we agree on so much in this world , but even with this, I'm struggling to see, am to take the kicking Superman is taking in the image is reflective of his kicking currently, is that the correlation sought here ?

 

[Da-Scribe]

My guess is that if Cavill does not come back, WB does similar to what Marvel did with Banner. Recast him, relegate him to smaller but impactful appearances, throw him in some teamup films, then get him another solo. His past exploits will remain canon, but they won't be explicitly mentioned. Then somewhere down the line they bring back some member of the original supporting cast to throw die hard fans of MoS/BvS a bone. Probs Harry Lennix or someone.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I will miss the brutality of this Batman.

 

[Black Narcissus]

As you know we agree on so much in this world , but even with this, I'm struggling to see, am to take the kicking Superman is talking in the image is reflective of his kicking currently, is that the correlation sought here ?

It has nothing to do with you, bald man. I just was going through a few Superman gifs and i'm still in awe of seeing Dark Knight Returns suit in action.

 

[Black Narcissus]