Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - Part 7

[Nemeres]

I'd take Jor-El smacking Pa.

One thing I'd like is convos with the dads. Revisiting old philosophies, disagreeing maybe. Saying why. Making a point to show that his (new) stances are his own.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

"Don't do it Clark, think of the drowning horses! The hero cake! ohhhhhhhh the humanity"

*Jor-El ***** slaps Jonathan*

"Kal, don't listen to this fool. Go help your friends."

 

[superboy13]

Yeah, this Pa is kind of a *****ebag, isn't he? Maybe they can get Eddie Jones or John Schneider to show up and *****slap him, too.

 

[Polux]

I believe it was Seasons by Chris Cornell

Indeed it is, beautiful song, matches the movie (and Superman) perfectly

And I thought I was a Man of Steel fan...

Here buddy, rejoice

[YT]wu-ZD9kXXcA[/YT]

 

[Da-Scribe]

The horse thing was actually a solid analogy. I think it's kinda important to remember the Pa Kent stuff took place at two very different times in Clark's life. He always wanted Clark to be a good man and knew he'd change the world, but he was unwilling to allow his son, just a boy mind you, to take on that sorta responsibility at such a young age.

When we see him in BvS, it's more to do with, "Okay, you're a man now and this is the life you've chosen. Understand that there are always consequences, but do your best anyway and know that people love you."

So no, I wouldn't call Pa Kent a *****ebag. He's just a dad.

 

[The Guard]

Snyder's been consistent in his use of Christian themes, I doubt he'd miss out on depicting an afterlife if the chance was there.

Superman is considered something of a Christ Figure, and Christian lore doesn't generally depict the actual afterlife when Jesus dies, he just sort of returns to the human world, having been reborn.

We'll probably get some kind of "the stone is rolled away from the tomb" moment in Smallville, but...

Dunno. It'll be interesting to see.

 

[superboy13]

The horse thing was actually a solid analogy. I think it's kinda important to remember the Pa Kent stuff took place at two very different times in Clark's life. He always wanted Clark to be a good man and knew he'd change the world, but he was unwilling to allow his son, just a boy mind you, to take on that sorta responsibility at such a young age.

When we see him in BvS, it's more to do with, "Okay, you're a man now and this is the life you've chosen. Understand that there are always consequences, but do your best anyway and know that people love you."

So no, I wouldn't call Pa Kent a *****ebag. He's just a dad.

Clark: What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?
Pa: Maybe

Great guy, that Jon.

 

[Polux]

The horse thing was actually a solid analogy. I think it's kinda important to remember the Pa Kent stuff took place at two very different times in Clark's life. He always wanted Clark to be a good man and knew he'd change the world, but he was unwilling to allow his son, just a boy mind you, to take on that sorta responsibility at such a young age.

When we see him in BvS, it's more to do with, "Okay, you're a man now and this is the life you've chosen. Understand that there are always consequences, but do your best anyway and know that people love you."

So no, I wouldn't call Pa Kent a *****ebag. He's just a dad.

Exactly, he was just trying to protect his son; superpowers all, he's still his son, every dad would take a bullet for his kid, invulnerable or not.

 

[idiot09]

What Pa told Clark was absolutely right, and if I was his father I would have done the same. He basically told Clark, sometimes in life, even if he do the right thing, there are some unintended bad consequences. And we just have to deal with it, and that doesnt mean we stop doing the right thing. Clark asked him if the nightmares/guilt ever stop? He answered it did for him when he met the love of his life. Clark realises that is Lois. She is his world, and with her at his side, he can overcome whatever problem life throws at him.

People are too harsh at him over the "maybe" statement but its true. He immediately follows up with a "I dont know" vibe, because he doesnt have a right answer, in a situation like this, there is no right or wrong, there is no black and white. Ofcourse he wants Clark to save the people, but he doesnt want his son taken away to a lab and experimented on. Ofcourse he wants his son to save people but he doesnt know the extent of his powers and his son could die.

My mom asks me not to put my hand outside a bus window. Its a natural parenting instinct 101. You want the best for your child, always. Their safety and happiness comes first.

 

[idiot09]

Clark: What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?
Pa: Maybe

Great guy, that Jon.

Full quote :

Pa : Maybe, but there's more at stake here than our lives or the lives of those around us. When the world... When the world finds out what you can do, it's gonna change everything; our... our beliefs, our notions of what it means to be human... everything. You saw how Pete's mom reacted, right? She was scared, Clark.
Clark : Why?
Jonathan Kent: People are afraid of what they don't understand.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

I guess I understand Jonathan's predicament and why he sacrificed himself for Clark (even though rescuing him doesn't exactly = ALIEN) but what I don't understand is Clark constantly outing himself after that to save people despite his father sacrificing himself so that he wouldn't do that.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

The horse thing was actually a solid analogy. I think it's kinda important to remember the Pa Kent stuff took place at two very different times in Clark's life. He always wanted Clark to be a good man and knew he'd change the world, but he was unwilling to allow his son, just a boy mind you, to take on that sorta responsibility at such a young age.

When we see him in BvS, it's more to do with, "Okay, you're a man now and this is the life you've chosen. Understand that there are always consequences, but do your best anyway and know that people love you."

So no, I wouldn't call Pa Kent a *****ebag. He's just a dad.

I liked that little conversation between Clark and Pa Kent. Jor-El has this magical view of the world "Yey, people will love you, just because...", while Pa Kent says it how it is. He doesn't sugar-coat it.

 

[Polux]

I guess I understand Jonathan's predicament and why he sacrificed himself for Clark (even though rescuing him doesn't exactly = ALIEN) but what I don't understand is Clark constantly outing himself after that to save people despite his father sacrificing himself so that he wouldn't do that.

Clark was also older when he started saving people (although an official date is not given, he surely started at least a short while before being 33); and after every save he would disappear and start a new life trying to remain hidden, even Lois makes a point of it when he says "I'll disappear again" and she says something like "I think they only way for you to stay hidden is to stop helping people...and I have the feeling you won't do that."

It was his nature that moved him to constantly help people while trying to remain hidden, Jon's advice was about revealing himself to the world afraid of how the would would react (which is justified by how we saw the world reacting in BvS).

 

[idiot09]

I guess I understand Jonathan's predicament and why he sacrificed himself for Clark (even though rescuing him doesn't exactly = ALIEN) but what I don't understand is Clark constantly outing himself after that to save people despite his father sacrificing himself so that he wouldn't do that.

Thats what he was, a ghost, one random act of good, then disappearing. Being nothing more than a myth, an urban legend. Because thats who just Clark is. He doesnt need adulation, he doesnt need the crowd cheering for him, thats not why he does it. He doesnt do it out of a sense of responsibility, he is not reluctant. It is what he wants to do. Even if that means sacrificing a normal life/changing identities all the time.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

Thats what he was, a ghost, one random act of good, then disappearing. Being nothing more than a myth, an urban legend. Because thats who just Clark is. He doesnt need adulation, he doesnt need the crowd cheering for him, thats not why he does it. He doesnt do it out of a sense of responsibility, he is not reluctant. It is what he wants to do. Even if that means sacrificing a normal life/changing identities all the time.

But why couldn't he do that with his dad then? Save him and then leave. That would've been a good reason for him to leave as well and then do odd jobs, save people along the way and then discover the scout ship.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I guess I understand Jonathan's predicament and why he sacrificed himself for Clark (even though rescuing him doesn't exactly = ALIEN) but what I don't understand is Clark constantly outing himself after that to save people despite his father sacrificing himself so that he wouldn't do that.

I'm gonna open by saying I've no desire to have a MoS debate. I'm just gonna explain the plot points and you can feel whatever way rings true for you.

Jonathan didn't want to risk exposing his teenage son as a superpowered being and would die to protect that secret. However, he knew Clark would eventually grow into a man that would change the world. The key thing here, is that concept of maturity. He wanted Clark to decide for himself when he was old enough to handle the fallout and protect himself. When we see Clark "constant outing himself", it's at a point where a) he's learned to forge his identity and b) he's like 30.

I'm sure there are plenty of things your parents didn't want you to do until you were older.

But why couldn't he do that with his dad then? Save him and then leave. That would've been a good reason for him to leave as well and then do odd jobs, save people along the way and then discover the scout ship.

Breh...he was 17.

 

[idiot09]

But why couldn't he do that with his dad then? Save him and then leave. That would've been a good reason for him to leave as well and then do odd jobs, save people along the way and then discover the scout ship.

Remember at that point Clark was 17. He wasnt sure of his powers, he was a teenager. For all Pa knew, if Clark went in he could have died. Pa did what any father would, put his son's safety above his. And Clark did what a son should,listen to his dad. Dont forget they just had that "Youre not my father" talk, so he was already feeling guilty about that. All of this happened in a matter of seconds to a teenager, who froze. Its easy to say in hindsight, he should he should have done this, he should have left smallville etc.

 

[idiot09]

I'm gonna open by saying I've no desire to have a MoS debate. I'm just gonna explain the plot points and you can feel whatever way rings true for you.

Jonathan didn't want to risk exposing his teenage son as a superpowered being and would die to protect that secret. However, he knew Clark would eventually grow into a man that would change the world. The key thing here, is that concept of maturity. He wanted Clark to decide for himself when he was old enough to handle the fallout and protect himself. When we see Clark "constant outing himself", it's at a point where a) he's learned to forge his identity and b) he's like 30.

I'm sure there are plenty of things your parents didn't want you to do until you were older.



Breh...he was 17.

This this this.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

Remember at that point Clark was 17. He wasnt sure of his powers, he was a teenager. For all Pa knew, if Clark went in he could have died. Pa did what any father would, put his son's safety above his. And Clark did what a son should,listen to his dad. Dont forget they just had that "Youre not my father" talk, so he was already feeling guilty about that. All of this happened in a matter of seconds to a teenager, who froze. Its easy to say in hindsight, he should he should have done this, he should have left smallville etc.

It is easy to say because it's being scripted lol. None of this is real. They could've scripted this in any which way. Like I said, I have no issue with Pa Kent's reasoning. I'm only asking why Clark kept outing himself after his dad sacrificed himself so he wouldn't. Which I suggested would've been fine, if he as a 17 year old saved his dad and had to leave Smallville and find his way in the world. Just a suggestion from my part. Even in the Donner version, he was around the same age when he left Smallville to the Fortress in the Arctic IIRC.

 

[Bren]

The main thread was locked. I guess this one is next

I hated that scene. 17 years old, bugger that, I'm saving him and dealing with the consequences after.

Or I'd have thought superspeedily, "no let me go fetch the frikking dog because even turning my abilities down to barely above human I can still safely get in and out of there without raising suspicion."

But yeah, wrong thread/section

 

[Superherofan123]

He didn't out himself. He was a drifter who used different names every where he went. He wasn't Clark Kent to anyone.

 

[superboy13]

What Pa told Clark was absolutely right, and if I was his father I would have done the same. He basically told Clark, sometimes in life, even if he do the right thing, there are some unintended bad consequences. And we just have to deal with it, and that doesnt mean we stop doing the right thing. Clark asked him if the nightmares/guilt ever stop? He answered it did for him when he met the love of his life. Clark realises that is Lois. She is his world, and with her at his side, he can overcome whatever problem life throws at him.

People are too harsh at him over the "maybe" statement but its true. He immediately follows up with a "I dont know" vibe, because he doesnt have a right answer, in a situation like this, there is no right or wrong, there is no black and white. Ofcourse he wants Clark to save the people, but he doesnt want his son taken away to a lab and experimented on. Ofcourse he wants his son to save people but he doesnt know the extent of his powers and his son could die.

Yes, there is. It's always "save the two dozens of innocent kids, we'll deal with whatever comes later".

My mom asks me not to put my hand outside a bus window. Its a natural parenting instinct 101. You want the best for your child, always. Their safety and happiness comes first.

How is that analogous? Does you doing that save a bunch of kids from certain death and causes you no harm?

 

[Tra-El]

Man of Steel section:
http://forums.superherohype.com/forumdisplay.php?f=348

 

[Da-Scribe]

I really don't like the idea of a 17 year old becoming a drifter, superpowers or not. This isn't like the 80s where you could be 12 and go on high stakes adventures with mobster and dead bodies galore. It'd just be very distracting for me, especially knowing that Martha would've JUST lost her husband and then her son up and vanishes at an age where he is in no way equipped to take care of himself.

It just would've been a really weird direction for the character.

 

[superboy13]

Breh...he was 17.

I always thought it was a mistake that they used Cavill instead of Sprayberry for that scene. No matter how much they change his hair or he pitches up his voice, he still looks 30. An aged-up Sprayberry would've sold the intended punch behind the scene a lot more.