BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[BH/HHH]

Agreed with both your main points there. I love the TDKR as a book, but there's very few people who can argue that Miller didn't treat Superman - as a character - very badly in order to strengthen his storyline and characterisation of Batman in the book.

The Superman I grew up with in many media (TV, comics, cartoons, and so on) was a superhero who personified the core qualities many of us aspire to - strength of character, willpower, morality, determination, conviction, and so on - and not someone who would ever become a government floozy, a God-like lapdog who just takes orders for a quiet life.

Despite that poor treatment, there's no question that it's a great book overall and I have an unmarked copy sealed away with many other of the best graphic novels from over the years that I could find. I don't hate on the book. But I always think of it as an Elseworlds type story and not one which I would consider as having any input to how the Superman character has grown and developed in comics over the years, despite it's cultural impact and status.

And in terms of the films, you raise a good point about the gap. You're right when you say there was really nothing cinematic for a long time (19 years) to take away people's enduring image of Reeve as Superman. And then when it did happen, the Director came up with a quasi-continuation of those Donner-era films anyway. As time has passed, it's become clear how idiotic an approach that was.

I agree it is a great book and the Superman portrayal in it works for that story. I don't think Miller ever intended for it to in anyway 'damage' Superman. What I don't like is the legacy it's left, people latch on to it as reasons to hate on Superman like the government stooge thing. But it's hard to explain to people that's it's not not ever was canon and that its an elseworlds tale.

I think had they got someone over than Jon Peters as the producer in the 90s we'd have gotten a Superman film sooner. Although he's crazy that's not the main issue with Peters, the main issue is he latched onto what's hot at that moment or what the latest trend is. Had he just let a filmmaker come in and do Superman film things could have been much different. I really do think that the gap is what damaged the Superman character in the mainstream. I truly believe a fresh Superman trilogy made in the late 90s/2000s with the right people would have catapulted Superman to great heights again in terms of popularity.

 

[elgaz]

I agree it is a great book and the Superman portrayal in it works for that story. I don't think Miller ever intended for it to in anyway 'damage' Superman. What I don't like is the legacy it's left, people latch on to it as reasons to hate on Superman like the government stooge thing. But it's hard to explain to people that's it's not not ever was canon and that its an elseworlds tale.

I think had they got someone over than Jon Peters as the producer in the 90s we'd have gotten a Superman film sooner. Although he's crazy that's not the main issue with Peters, the main issue is he latched onto what's hot at that moment or what the latest trend is. Had he just let a filmmaker come in and do Superman film things could have been much different. I really do think that the gap is what damaged the Superman character in the mainstream. I truly believe a fresh Superman trilogy made in the late 90s/2000s with the right people would have catapulted Superman to great heights again in terms of popularity.

It would have, with the right people behind it.

Whenever I see complaints about Snyder doing this or that at the moment, I sit and think : we're lucky to have the guy. We could have got a Superman who doesn't fly, played by Nicholas Cage, battling giant robot spiders. I think there was also a version where Lex was Kryptonian.

We're lucky in that Snyder has faith in the source material and sticks to it, for the most part. Anything new added (like Krypton's selective breeding storyline) only enhances things.

 

[BH/HHH]

It would have, with the right people behind it.

Whenever I see complaints about Snyder doing this or that at the moment, I sit and think : we're lucky to have the guy. We could have got a Superman who doesn't fly, played by Nicholas Cage, battling giant robot spiders. I think there was also a version where Lex was Kryptonian.

We're lucky in that Snyder has faith in the source material and sticks to it, for the most part. Anything new added (like Krypton's selective breeding storyline) only enhances things.

Yes that was the JJ Abrams scripted Flyby however we have only ever seen early versions of those drafts so it's possible later drafts would have fixed a lot of the stuff (Lex been Kryptonian was actually already changed in one of the released drafts). I actually think that script was very salvageable and had some great stuff in that would later make into Superman Returns and Man of Steel. What's most interesting is McG wanted Henry Cavill for Superman in that version. Scarlett Johannasen (however it's spelt) as Lois Lane and Robert Downey Jr a Lex Luthor. Those three would have been good casting in my eyes. But I'm glad Cavill got his shot in 2013 instead. Josh Hartnett (who I think would have been an excellent Superman) kept on turning the role down at the time. I can imagine a pre MOS Superman trilogy with Hartnett.

 

[moviefreak]

It would have, with the right people behind it.

Whenever I see complaints about Snyder doing this or that at the moment, I sit and think : we're lucky to have the guy. We could have got a Superman who doesn't fly, played by Nicholas Cage, battling giant robot spiders. I think there was also a version where Lex was Kryptonian.

We're lucky in that Snyder has faith in the source material and sticks to it, for the most part. Anything new added (like Krypton's selective breeding storyline) only enhances things.

Snyder was pro-trunk. Imagine the uproar if Cavill actually unveiled for the first time with a form of (red) trunk. In the end, the redesigned suit lend naturally to a trunk-less image.

In fact, Snyder accomplished the almost impossible - retained the traditional elements & colours of suit and at the same time update it to make it modern --see Cavill's Superman, Affleck's Batman and Gadot's Wonder Woman.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I still think Abrams gets too much crap for that Flyby script. Yes there were too many pointless changes in the draft we got to read but who says that was the final draft?

 

[BH/HHH]

Snyder was pro-trunk. Imagine the uproar if Cavill actually unveiled for the first time with a form of (red) trunk. In the end, the redesigned suit lend naturally to a trunk-less image.

In fact, Snyder accomplished the almost impossible - retained the traditional elements & colours of suit and at the same time update it to make it modern --see Cavill's Superman, Affleck's Batman and Gadot's Wonder Woman.

Yeah he fought for the trunks but ultimately lost the battle. Fwiw I think the MOS suit is the perfect update for a Superman costume.

I still think Abrams gets too much crap for that Flyby script. Yes there were too many pointless changes in the draft we got to read but who says that was the final draft?

Exactly no ones read the final version, he was also told to make it different not to necessarily go with what's the norm so those drafts reflect that. Yet if you read each of the drafts available it starts to become more and more inline with the Superman we know.

 

[The Guard]

People always say Superman is a government stooge in TDKR, but I think that's an extension of who Superman was at the time in the comics, with a more violent, war-time angle. It's Batman who thinks Superman is a government stooge (and Miller who actually MADE him one in TDKSA), but Superman's intentions and actions are fairly noble and not that far outside the realm of who Superman has always been.

 

[BH/HHH]

I don't agree that was an extension of who he was at the time. Superman did what was right but he'd never kill in wars. I think what Miller did was take the Superman from the world war days and went hyper with him. That's not an extension to me but a leap and exaggeration of that.

What really gets my back up in that book is when Superman saves America from the Nuke and Batman gives him **** for it. It's like oh yeah Bruce that's why you're still alive.

 

[thosemortalmen]

They share the same amount of promotion, Supes and Bats, besides the last trailer forsure. Relax guys. Haven't seen anyone post this yet.

 

[rogbngp]

I'm glad Snyder lost the trunk battle. The new suit is the best yet. No comparison (for me) with the trunk versions.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I'm glad Snyder lost the trunk battle. The new suit is the best yet. No comparison (for me) with the trunk versions.

LOL no Superman shoulda never ben updated he doesn't look rite unless he's wearing a leotard and a giant pair of briefs. Why do dey always rune the classics?!!!111

 

[Sawyer]

I look forward to en entire generation being used to Batman and Superman not wearing trunks, so that the very suggestion of putting them back on sounds stupid as hell to them. That's how much the whining annoyed me.

 

[BH/HHH]

I look forward to en entire generation being used to Batman and Superman not wearing trunks, so that the very suggestion of putting them back on sounds stupid as hell to them. That's how much the whining annoyed me.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I look forward to en entire generation being used to Batman and Superman not wearing trunks, so that the very suggestion of putting them back on sounds stupid as hell to them. That's how much the whining annoyed me.

That is a lovely thought.

 

[Fallen Angel]

In one month, the son of Krypton goes to war. #BatmanvSuperman

https://***********/BatmanvSuperman

 

[Rapunzel]

That is a lovely thought.

Henry with no underwear is a very lovely thought.

 

[Boy Scout]

I'm glad Snyder lost the trunk battle. The new suit is the best yet. No comparison (for me) with the trunk versions.

To be fair, we were only given one opportunity to see what Superman's classic suit would look like in a modern, big budget film, and most agree that the execution (and not the design) was botched. In my mind, the briefs have never been given their fair shake, and now they most likely never will be.

 

[moviefreak]

Trunkless suit likely will never work in a live action suit based on Reeve's Superman suit. It'll look horrible. We're lucky that Michael Wilkinson was able to finalised the design for MOS --that's the suit that work best without trunk.

ESQUIRE.COM: How much pressure was involved with being the guy who had to design the Superman suit?

MICHAEL WILKINSON: There was some pressure, although I have to preface it by saying that when the director Zack Snyder asked me to work on Man of Steel, I was already working on another project. So he started off with another costume designer, James Acheson, who developed the suit, and then I came in and finished the development and designed all the other costumes in the film. We were so thrilled to be able to contribute to the look of Superman in the 21st century. We wanted to create something that was relevant and made sense to contemporary audiences.

ESQ: So is James responsible for taking away Superman's red briefs?

MW: Yes! In the early stages of development James worked with some illustrators and I remember hearing stories of the red briefs getting smaller and smaller until one day they simply weren't there.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a27759/michael-wilkinson-superman-look/

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The briefs are not a big deal either way. In the near future some new version will have them, it'll look good, or new or different and people will talk about how good it looks ect. too.

 

[Vaibow]

I have seen a lot of manips where the briefs/pants/speedo's work. One day they'll be back

 

[RLAAMJR.]

I'm watching this because of Superman. I enjoyed the man of Steel movie

 

[AnneFan]

What are everyone's favourite Superman stories?

These are mine at the moment:

All Star Superman
What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?
For The Man who has Everything
Lex Luthor: Man of Steel
Birthright
Brainiac
For All Seasons
Secret Identity
Kryptonite
Superman Unchained
Last Son
Secret Identity
Death of Superman
Peace on Earth

 

[Baneis8feettall]

I look forward to en entire generation being used to Batman and Superman not wearing trunks, so that the very suggestion of putting them back on sounds stupid as hell to them. That's how much the whining annoyed me.

I wish.

 

[sf2]

The briefs are not a big deal either way. In the near future some new version will have them, it'll look good, or new or different and people will talk about how good it looks ect. too.

agree.

the red briefs returns...

 

[The Batman]

What are everyone's favourite Superman stories?

All Star Superman
For the Man Who Has Everything
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow?
Birthright
Red Son
Superman and The Men of Steel
Action Comics # 1