BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Just let it marinate for a bit, Spidey. I'm not saying you'll do a 180 and like it suddenly, but it might settle better with a little time. And if it doesn't...time tends to dull the pain too, lol.

I probably will give it another go. Right now I'm more conflicted than Henry Cavill's Superman.

 

[Tra-El]

That's exactly what I kept telling myself after MoS.

BvS was necessary "dark" to me (I expected it to be much darker, actually.) It felt right. Man of Steel left me with so many unanswered questions. Yeah, we saw Clark at the DP, but it never felt like we left on a good note to get to a lighter tone.

With BvS, I feel it's all but natural. I don't need questioned answered. At all. The only thing I want to see if how they freakin' do it.

 

[Herolee10]

That's exactly what I kept telling myself after MoS.

BvS was necessary "dark" to me (I expected it to be much darker, actually.) It felt right. Man of Steel left me with so many unanswered questions. Yeah, we saw Clark at the DP, but it never felt like we left on a good note to get to a lighter tone.

With BvS, I feel it's all but natural. I don't need questioned answered. At all. The only thing I want to see if how they freakin' do it.

MOS was already pretty serious and dark (in some areas). So for them to have gone even further with the darkness in BvS was shocking to hear about.

Frankly, how many more films do we have to see Superman go through emotional toil before he's allowed to have some happiness?

Better yet, how many more dark films do we have to see Superman in period?

We shouldn't even have to be in this position where we're hoping to see Superman in a more lighter film. And we sure as hell, as fans of the character, shouldn't have to be in a position where we're uncertain about what awaits for him in the future like this after getting the short stick this many times.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

First the line was "BvS is going to fix the problems that MoS had." Now it's "JL is going to fix the problems BvS and MoS had." When does it end? When do you finally say enough is enough?

 

[Tra-El]

Nope, Friday night. I'm fairly optimistic though. I haven't been avoiding any spoilers and it sounds like something I'll like overall with some grievances.

I don't think I can look forward to somebodies thoughts, than yours right now. Following you here for a long time, I have a great feeling it's up your alley. And I'll look very, very stupid if I'm wrong lmao but I'll put this Supes on the line. I like it that much.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

First the line was "BvS is going to fix the problems that MoS had." Now it's "JL is going to fix the problems BvS and MoS had." When does it end? When do you finally say enough is enough?

Snyder can't fix this because he doesn't see any of it as a problem. Another director is needed, one that will allow for some fun to be had, one that will allow Henry to play a less conflicted Superman.

 

[Tra-El]

First the line was "BvS is going to fix the problems that MoS had." Now it's "JL is going to fix the problems BvS and MoS had." When does it end? When do you finally say enough is enough?

Man of Steel had problems. I felt BvS justified those problems. Who knows what we'll get with JL, but I'm giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt. I have to. I loved Man of Steel and defended it for 3 years with many things I didn't like about it. I don't feel like I hate any aspect of BvS.

 

[Herolee10]

The sad thing is, BvS may end up being the last film that we see Superman shown at his best (under Snyder's vision).

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The sad thing is for me is that after 3 years of defenses and excuses and hope that I...am not hyped for Justice League. Like I said I feel like promises were made going by Man of Steel's ending were broken.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Man of Steel had problems. I felt BvS justified those problems. Who knows what we'll get with JL, but I'm giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt. I have to. I loved Man of Steel and defended it for 3 years with many things I didn't like about it. I don't feel like I hate any aspect of BvS.

I have given Snyder the benefit of the doubt. For three years after MoS, which I'm not a fan of, came out I was defending this movie. Zack lost any kind of benefit of the doubt he had from me. You can't keep giving this man second chances. You like it. I understand. I respect your opinion, but the fact is this is a divisive movie.. again. As fans, we shouldn't be content with divisiveness, and that's exactly what Snyder is going to keep giving us.

 

[Herolee10]

The sad thing is for me is that after 3 years of defenses and excuses and hope that I...am not hyped for Justice League. Like I said I feel like promises were made going by Man of Steel's ending were broken.

Agreed.

Frankly, I feel like if Snyder were to remain on board as the Director in JL, he's going to go to heaven and hell and bust his freaking ass to EARN any trust and respect from fans into believing that he can deliver a DECENT film.

Snyder's not given any reason on why people should really trust in him and have good expectations for any film that he makes anymore.

 

[Tra-El]

The sad thing is, BvS may end up being the last film that we see Superman shown at his best (under Snyder's vision).

I would be devastated over that. IMO, the story that comes next is way too good not to be givin' the chance to go for it. It would be a mistake to give in to the critical response. There's much more to tell to still have that slimmer of hope to win back the people they lost. And it pains me to say that because I think the direction we're heading in is fun and unpredictable.

 

[Quasimod0]

The sad thing is for me is that after 3 years of defenses and excuses and hope that I...am not hyped for Justice League. Like I said I feel like promises were made going by Man of Steel's ending were broken.

I feel the exact same way. This Clark was even more miserable and frowny than MoS Clark. It's bad when killer Batman has more charm and personality than Superman.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Superman is not Dr. Manhattan.

 

[Rapunzel]

I am fine with BvS' tone and depiction of Superman. I was expecting this... Snyder clearly set it up in MoS.

See, MoS was about Supes trusting humanity enough to come out. Once the people have earned his trust, the natural follow up to that is to show the people learning to trust Supes. This is what BvS is all about and why I feel like it's a complete arc....nobody will mistrust Superman anymore once he returns because he made the ultimate sacrifice. It's just like everyone finally believing Christ was the son of God after the resurrection. Once the people trust him, there's no reason for Supes to have any more darkness. He can join them in the sun.

The problem, for me, is that I'm concerned that the knightmare/flash stuff means we are gonna get more doubting, drama, and darkness for Supes' life. If Snyder does this, he will kill everything. Such direction is regressive and will keep this franchise from moving forward. I'm getting afraid that each movie will involve Clark dealing with the same issues....meaning no development of character and actual regression of character.

 

[craigdbfan]

Seeing a Superman more akin to that of All Star at some point would be nice.

 

[Consona]

I am fine with BvS' tone and depiction of Superman. I was expecting this... Snyder clearly set it up in MoS.

See, MoS was about Supes trusting humanity enough to come out. Once the people have earned his trust, the natural follow up to that is to show the people learning to trust Supes. This is what BvS is all about and why I feel like it's a complete arc....nobody will mistrust Superman anymore once he returns because he made the ultimate sacrifice. It's just like everyone finally believing Christ was the son of God after the resurrection. Once the people trust him, there's no reason for Supes to have any more darkness. He can join them in the sun.

The problem, for me, is that I'm concerned that the knightmare/flash stuff means we are gonna get more doubting, drama, and darkness for Supes' life. If Snyder does this, he will kill everything. Such direction is regressive and will keep this franchise from moving forward. I'm getting afraid that each movie will involve Clark dealing with the same issues....meaning no development of character and actual regression of character.

Interesting observation!

I loved BvS' conflicted Superman, but maybe you are right that events at the end of BvS should make him more uplifted.

But on the other hand, there's this Flash thing, that pushes it more into the doubt area again. Yea, your arguments sound valid to me.

 

[Herolee10]

I swear if Snyder turns Superman evil or goes down the "Injustice" Route by having him turn dark, even temporarily, by killing Lois Lane, fans should throw things at Snyder if he ever appears at a Superman convention.

 

[Tra-El]

I feel the exact same way. This Clark was even more miserable and frowny than MoS Clark. It's bad when killer Batman has more charm and personality than Superman.

Sometimes I wonder how the hell can I disagree with somebody so badly. [BLACKOUT]Superman was CRAPPED on by everybody the entire movie but still felt the most vulerable and heartfelt. Supes was great and it showed why I love him so much. His dialogue to Lois was outstanding and crazy likeable. Maybe it's because I think of my wife the same.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Tra-El]

I swear if Snyder turns Superman evil or goes down the "Injustice" Route by having him turn dark, even temporarily, by killing Lois Lane, fans should throw things at Snyder if he ever appears at a Superman convention.

If that happens, and since I'm gushing over Supes at the moment in this film, I'll personally give you my home address and allow you to kick me in the balls over and over until serious harm and if you would stop, I would beg for me because I deserved it.

Not happening lol. Superman has a ton of heart in this. His heart is beating in the right places.

 

[Herolee10]

His heart is beating in the right places.

This film also gives us reasons to believe that they'll go down that route.

Spoiler

The Knightmare sequence where Superman went rogue and Flash's cryptic message about Lois.

A lot of people are already concerned that if Superman is brought back, he'll be used as Darkseid's puppet or that we'll see a scenario where Lois is really killed after Superman is revived and where we see him tempted to become evil.

 

[Andreth]

The sad thing is, BvS may end up being the last film that we see Superman shown at his best (under Snyder's vision).

Yeah.

I'm dreading Superman turning evil in future stories.

 

[lc23]

If that happens, and since I'm gushing over Supes at the moment in this film, I'll personally give you my home address and allow you to kick me in the balls over and over until serious harm and if you would stop, I would beg for me because I deserved it.

Not happening lol. Superman has a ton of heart in this. His heart is beating in the right places.

I loved Cav-El in this, too. He did well with the little he was given. However, I agree that Superman did get the short-shrift in this movie again. I'm not even talking about the fight. There should've been more of him. More focus on developing him as a character and letting people really hear viewpoints, more focus on him as Clark Kent the Daily Planet reporter, and Clark Kent Lois's lover.

 

[Andreth]

I swear if Snyder turns Superman evil or goes down the "Injustice" Route by having him turn dark, even temporarily, by killing Lois Lane, fans should throw things at Snyder if he ever appears at a Superman convention.

Damn, you just reminded me the most disgusting fact about Injustice, Clark kills a pregnant Lois himself while being drugged into thinking she's doomsday. He beats her and their unborn son to death

Too dark for an audience.

But there's another side to the Injustice story, the good Superman (from a world where nothing happened to Lois) goes into the bad superman universe and defeates him.
Maybe they are thinking right now "Oh how cool would it be to see 2 supermen fighting!"

I better stop thinking about it.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

I am fine with BvS' tone and depiction of Superman. I was expecting this... Snyder clearly set it up in MoS.

See, MoS was about Supes trusting humanity enough to come out. Once the people have earned his trust, the natural follow up to that is to show the people learning to trust Supes. This is what BvS is all about and why I feel like it's a complete arc....nobody will mistrust Superman anymore once he returns because he made the ultimate sacrifice. It's just like everyone finally believing Christ was the son of God after the resurrection. Once the people trust him, there's no reason for Supes to have any more darkness. He can join them in the sun.

The problem, for me, is that I'm concerned that the knightmare/flash stuff means we are gonna get more doubting, drama, and darkness for Supes' life. If Snyder does this, he will kill everything. Such direction is regressive and will keep this franchise from moving forward. I'm getting afraid that each movie will involve Clark dealing with the same issues....meaning no development of character and actual regression of character.

Rapunzel gets it. And don't worry about the knightmare stuff. No more darkness and doubt for Superman. You said it yourself "Once the people trust him, there's no reason for Supes to have any more darkness. He can join them in the sun." .