BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Mr. Wayne]

I really enjoyed Superman's restraint in the movie. This is one particular element of the character that they nailed quite well.

Spoiler

Any other hero would have destroyed Batman, killed Lex for showing him photos of his tortured Mother, and would have let Lex die by the creature he created. But not Superman. I know we can ***** and moan that Batman won the fight. However, it's Superman's restraint and his want to plead to Batman to team up and go after Lex, but Batman isn't having any of it, that really makes Superman shine. This is Superman's first exposure to Kryptonite as well. Yet, he took it. Yeah, he fought back so he wouldn't just straight up die, but he never used brutal force against Batman. He played Batman's game.

It's a good point. I think a lot of people glossed over it because

Spoiler

the fight was disappointing in execution as well as result for Superman fans. I know some were critical of the way he told Lois that he had to go to Gotham but putting yourself in his shoes I thought his reactions were both human and what you'd expect from Superman. He was distraught like a human being would be but also pure enough to not resort to murdering Batman which would have been easy. He was even willing to swallow his pride and apologize to appeal for help on behalf of his mother.

I think the saddest part of the reception to this movie is that almost all of the ingredients are there. They're just not allowed to breath because the editing and pacing are so poor. Somewhere within what they shot is a really good movie that a better director would have put together.

 

[schereZada]

Superman could've easily avoided his death by giving Wonder Woman the spear. Everyone would've lived and happy happy.

Wouldn't Wonder Woman have died instead then? I'm sure Superman is the kind of guy that takes the bullet for the rest of the team.

Anyways, Cavill was great in MOS and he's great here.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Poor guy. He is another Andrew Garfield. The right guy for the role, but choked under a toxic creative team that doesn't get the character.

Bingo. But at least Garfield got two movies where he felt like the main character. They weren't even that generous to Cavill.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Just join me in the art of letting go. It's the only way to find fan peace.

Accept that this is the direction they have taken. You can either decide this version isn't for you and stop watching. Or you can decide to just enjoy it for what it is - an elseworlds tale where Superman is not the one we all know and love, but is recognisable as a version of Superman that is changed by different experiences and situations in this universe.

Worked for me!

So did you like it, HD? I know you had a lot of issues with MOS. Did you enjoy BVS more than that film? Just curious.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Did we even watch the same movie? I thought Henry was great and that Supes written great.

Maybe we didn't, I can't comprehend how any superman fan or anyone who understands that character could not have issues with what Snyder and co have done to him.

 

[Tra-El]

Maybe we didn't, I can't comprehend how any superman fan or anyone who understands that character could not have issues with what Snyder and co have done to him.

This is my problem with the mindset of most fans. They feel they own the character and he can only be written in one way and be put in only winnable circumstances.

For me, I cling on to certain beats of the character, but respect the story that is being told. I accept a challenge to Superman that may put himself and the fan in uncomfortable situations and flawed decisions, but the heart NEEDS to be in the right place.

In BvS, are there some things that challenge the fans? Absolutely, but it felt like Superman to me and his heart was in the right place in the face of some terrible circumstances concerning his existence. To me, as a Superman fan, I was happy with the story they told because I know this isn't a closed book by any means whatsoever. It's an arc leading to bigger things....maybe even huge and Supes seems like he's part of the bigger picture.

 

[BH/HHH]

Cavill nailed it again and he was written terrifically again.

 

[The Guard]

People, I don't think they're going to

Spoiler

Kill Lois. Not this one, at least. This is an alternate universe/Crisis thing happening

 

[antonydelfini]

Maybe we didn't, I can't comprehend how any superman fan or anyone who understands that character could not have issues with what Snyder and co have done to him.

Superman is my favorite fictional character ever. And I find BVS as the greatest Superman movie yet. Superman does what is right no matter how difficult it gets. He doubts himself and has moments of confusion, but he pulls through and does what is right in the end. He'd rather lose to Batman than kill him, he'd rather face Luthor's evil schemes in the future than let Doomsday kill him, he's always there for Lois. The tone also reminded me alot of Kingdom Come.

MOS on the other hand, is a poor Superman movie IMO. A very big step up from Cavill and Snyder.

 

[Tony Gunk]

This is my problem with the mindset of most fans. They feel they own the character and he can only be written in one way and be put in only winnable circumstances.

For me, I cling on to certain beats of the character, but respect the story that is being told. I accept a challenge to Superman that may put himself and the fan in uncomfortable situations and flawed decisions, but the heart NEEDS to be in the right place.

In BvS, are there some things that challenge the fans? Absolutely, but it felt like Superman to me and his heart was in the right place in the face of some terrible circumstances concerning his existence. To me, as a Superman fan, I was happy with the story they told because I know this isn't a closed book by any means whatsoever. It's an arc leading to bigger things....maybe even huge and Supes seems like he's part of the bigger picture.

disagree. There are some characteristics that are are fundamentals, and other traits that should never be written into certain characters.

If you are going to mess with these then you might as well change the costume and the character name too because once they lose the fundamentals they're barely recognisable as that character anymore.

Fans won't just accept any change just for the sake of change, and these films, comics, cartoons or whatever are made to be bought by the fans, so they should have some damn respect for us, because in that sense it's us that pay for an finance this stuff, so yeah in a way we do own the character

I'm fed up of the lame excuses for what they've done to him. "He's not yet the superman we all know and love", even Henry Cavill knows fine well that this too far from what Superman IS.

 

[BH/HHH]

This is my problem with the mindset of most fans. They feel they own the character and he can only be written in one way and be put in only winnable circumstances.

For me, I cling on to certain beats of the character, but respect the story that is being told. I accept a challenge to Superman that may put himself and the fan in uncomfortable situations and flawed decisions, but the heart NEEDS to be in the right place.

In BvS, are there some things that challenge the fans? Absolutely, but it felt like Superman to me and his heart was in the right place in the face of some terrible circumstances concerning his existence. To me, as a Superman fan, I was happy with the story they told because I know this isn't a closed book by any means whatsoever. It's an arc leading to bigger things....maybe even huge and Supes seems like he's part of the bigger picture.

Damn right

 

[Tra-El]

disagree. There are some characteristics that are are fundamentals, and other traits that should never be written into certain characters.

If you are going to mess with these then you might as well change the costume and the character name too because once they lose the fundamentals they're barely recognisable as that character anymore.

Fans won't just accept any change just for the sake of change, and these films, comics, cartoons or whatever are made to be bought by the fans, so they should have some damn respect for us, because in that sense it's us that pay for an finance this stuff, so yeah in a way we do own the character

I'm fed up of the lame excuses for what they've done to him. "He's not yet the superman we all know and love", even Henry Cavill knows fine well that this too far from what Superman IS.

It's good to respectfully disagree. I don't think Superman was changed at all. And it's no excuse because I'm a fan and I accepted the story and it's a big step up in the mindset of the character and where he's heading.

I agree with a poster that Man of Steel lacked some traits. There were instances that didn't feel like Superman. In BvS, I felt Superman all over and I liked his growth. The emotion that was severely lacking in MoS, character wise, was strung in BvS, for me atleast.

Now, I'll compare to Superman Returns. I was making my rounds and posts like yours above in 2006. Though they had the music, the tone and the Donnerverse as crutch ' s and a distraction, it didn't sell me on Superman to the point where I was rooting for Richard White.

In Batman V Superman, it was quite the opposite. Superman's story stuck out to me and I cared a whole lot for him and rooted for him. I understood his pain and it made me root, root, root while I saw the manipulated world that was created around Supes for what it was. In Superman Returns, it was the opposite. I didn't buy into that Superman character in that world. That was a big inkling to me how Supes was written in BvS. It's not perfect but I'm satisfied where we're heading as the DCEU deconstruct ' s into a more heroic world in NEED of superhero's. In BvS, that's questioned and I'm good with that.

I hope that makes sense because I too, can see where you're coming from. I just view it differently.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Yes I can't get on board with much of what you're saying at all so let's respectfully disagree. You have your opinion, I have mine and understand why people have huge problems with what they've done to the character.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

This is my problem with the mindset of most fans. They feel they own the character and he can only be written in one way and be put in only winnable circumstances.

For me, I cling on to certain beats of the character, but respect the story that is being told. I accept a challenge to Superman that may put himself and the fan in uncomfortable situations and flawed decisions, but the heart NEEDS to be in the right place.

In BvS, are there some things that challenge the fans? Absolutely, but it felt like Superman to me and his heart was in the right place in the face of some terrible circumstances concerning his existence. To me, as a Superman fan, I was happy with the story they told because I know this isn't a closed book by any means whatsoever. It's an arc leading to bigger things....maybe even huge and Supes seems like he's part of the bigger picture.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I was fine with Superman having to share a movie with Batman but after this I really need a film that is all Supes, the character needs and deserved to be fleshed out some more.

 

[Tra-El]

Yes I can't get on board with much of what you're saying at all so let's respectfully disagree. You have your opinion, I have mine and understand why people have huge problems with what they've done to the character.

Well, Tony. That's why I keep coming back here. Honestly, I learn more in people's posts that I happen to disagree with because it makes me question my owns views and I reevaluate them and that's healthy as a fan. When I evaluate and find myself sticking by it, that's where the posts come from.

I hope you can find middle ground one day. It sucks to feel that way. I know because I was right where you were in 2006. I'm feeling validated and optimistic where Supes is heading.

 

[Flint Marko]

Just so I'm clear on this, Supermans beef with Batman is that he takes the law into his own hands. This is the same Superman whose first line in the movie is "I don't care" about the government hearing where he's being called to answer for the collateral damage caused by him, guess what, taking the law in his own hands.

 

[Tra-El]

Just so I'm clear on this, Supermans beef with Batman is that he takes the law into his own hands. This is the same Superman whose first line in the movie is "I don't care" about the government hearing where he's being called to answer for the collateral damage caused by him, guess what, taking the law in his own hands.

Superman is flawed. I liked that because it shows he needed to address it. But he reacts that way because he's so caught up into thinking he's doing the right thing. The difference between Superman and Batman in this is that Batman views it that no man is good and there's no man that is good. He says to Alfred that they were always the villains and he tells Clark to his face that he's a hypocrite, but Clark is stubborn enough because he knows in his heart he's trying to do the right thing and it clouds the overall judgement. Even Lois said that there are consequences. Supes realizes this later. It was nice to see how Supes convinced Bruce that there are good men and they need to fight for what's right in a dark world.

And I'm probably rambling lol.

 

[The Guard]

Just so I'm clear on this, Supermans beef with Batman is that he takes the law into his own hands. This is the same Superman whose first line in the movie is "I don't care" about the government hearing where he's being called to answer for the collateral damage caused by him, guess what, taking the law in his own hands.

It's character development. HIs perceptions of what a hero and someone with power should be are shifting. That's why he goes after Batman. He's responding to the publics condemnation of his reckless actions by confronting what he used to be.

 

[Flint Marko]

You two are putting in more legwork for this to make sense than anything in the direction or screenplay. If that's truly a part of the movie then just throw Supermans characterization onto the pile of poorly communicated and half-baked ideas only briefly paid the thinnest of lip service. It says a lot when the supposed "character arc" for the titular hero feels like a complete after-thought.

 

[The Guard]

You want to hate the film, hate the film. It's there. He even talks about why he's doing this.

 

[Flint Marko]

So it's paid lip service. See how that isn't satisfying? The movie doesn't know what it's doing with Superman, it just knows he has to fight Batman eventually.

 

[BH/HHH]

The nitpickers are here, the nitpickers are here

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Yet another thread being ruined by them. And I wouldn't even call it nitpicking. The movie is not complicated. Just like MoS, it's all there to see and hear. If you ignore it, that's your problem.

 

[Rapunzel]

Just so I'm clear on this, Supermans beef with Batman is that he takes the law into his own hands. This is the same Superman whose first line in the movie is "I don't care" about the government hearing where he's being called to answer for the collateral damage caused by him, guess what, taking the law in his own hands.

Um....no. Supes was helping, rescuing. Batman is punishing, scaring, killing. The two things are totally different. Even if it's being a vigilante, Supes is doing it for the right reasons, Batman for the wrong ones.