BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Mrs. Wayne]

If we get one more Superman movie with Cavill, who would you guys like to direct it and how would you want them to approach the story?

 

[comicfan13]

Well I commend you for your courage on this.

Personally, I've been burned one way too many times to ever trust Snyder again. Building expectations and having hope in a product handled by him has been disastrous for me.

Every time when I expect him to follow through with common sense, he comes out with stupidity. I don't want to hope that this guy can even do Superman justice in JL.

I've already accepted the fact that he doesn't consider Superman to be a leader, nor does he consider him to be integral to the JL.

And even though Superman is in JL, he won't be a part of the JL. Mark my words on that folks. The concept arts are just for show.

Frankly, if it were up to me, I wouldn't allow Snyder to come to comic con anymore. And I wouldn't blame a single person if they all jeered at him as he came on stage.

What do you think is going to happen? Care to elaborate or is that for another board? I'm just curious...

 

[X Knight]

If we get one more Superman movie with Cavill, who would you guys like to direct it and how would you want them to approach the story?

someone other than Snyder.

someone who can give us a Superman who's finally sure of his place in the world and who is firmly established as the iconic hero we love.

someone who can give us a more upbeat story with the character.

even without a full on reboot, I still think it's possible.

 

[Rapunzel]

someone other than Snyder.

someone who can give us a Superman who's finally sure of his place in the world and who is firmly established as the iconic hero we love.

someone who can give us a more upbeat story with the character.

even without a full on reboot, I still think it's possible.

I'm not sure I want another solo until JL improves the character's standing with fans.

 

[Andreth]

I apologize for the following because it's a bit of an over-dramatic rant, but I hope I'm entitled to one of those every now and then....

As a Supes fan, these are frustrating times. We're getting some supes (and any supes is better than none), but it's still not satisfying.

So far we've got:

MOS: Unsure, alienated wanderer Clark (Fair enough; I can accept this given that it's an origin story).

BvS: Still unsure Supes after two years who is under fire from the public and who fights batman. Then becomes dead (!) supes.

JL: Possibility of evil/mind-controlled/amnesiac supes...after (!) we've already dealt with dead (!) supes for some portion of the movie.

There's been some gimmick, some hook every time and perhaps this is what Snyder and Co think needs to happen to make superman interesting. But it's a fallacy! If they give us regular supes and do it right, the audience will have a tear in their eye because they're filled with hope for mankind. It doesn't even need to change the tone of the movie! It will just add some different emotions to the roller coaster! They just need to give us regular supes! Just some goddamned regular supes!

Yeah.
The Superman/Batman battle really felt like a slap in the face. The whole sequence really humiliates Superman, I mean, ok I get it, Batman uses kryptonite, starts punching him, Superman gets a couple of good moments, but damn, enough was enough, was it necessary to tie his feet, swing him around the room, throw a sink on his head, make him scream in agonizing pain while Batman towered over him. Make him scream and moan on the floor.

They wanted Batman to win the fight, fine, make him win, but was it necessary to show all those scenes?

 

[X Knight]

I'm not sure I want another solo until JL improves the character's standing with fans.

I don't think we'll be getting another solo Supes film until after JL anyways, if we even get one at all.

still would like a solo Supes movie featuring Brainiac and Kara.

y'all get to drool over Cavill.

I still want my blonde Kryptonian goddess da***t!!

 

[Andreth]

I wonder where this scene was gonna fit.

 

[Rapunzel]

The one hope I have is that

Spoiler

Superman's death makes people appreciate the character more, like the actual people in the film.

His death seems to have really resonated. Even my GA sis and bro in law were crying and thought it was sad. If Snyder uses that pathos to make us want to see him gloriously return, and actually delivers on it....it will be a beautiful thing.

Sometimes, I wonder if Snyder isn't doing some of this to intentionally make us feel like the world in the film feels...so that we have an emotional connection to Supes that is strong, because we've been following every up and down. This could work to make Supes amazing. If he delivers on getting us to that promised land. If he does, it will feel so earned and be the best Superman ever.

 

[X Knight]

The one hope I have is that

Spoiler

Superman's death makes people appreciate the character more, like the actual people in the film.

His death seems to have really resonated. Even my GA sis and bro in law were crying and thought it was sad. If Snyder uses that pathos to make us want to see him gloriously return, and actually delivers on it....it will be a beautiful thing.

Sometimes, I wonder if Snyder isn't doing some of this to intentionally make us feel like the world in the film feels...so that we have an emotional connection to Supes that is strong, because we've been following every up and down. This could work to make Supes amazing. If he delivers on getting us to that promised land. If he does, it will feel so earned and be the best Superman ever.

we can all hope.

 

[Andreth]

The one hope I have is that

Spoiler

Superman's death makes people appreciate the character more, like the actual people in the film.

Spoiler

His death seems to have really resonated. Even my GA sis and bro in law were crying and thought it was sad. If Snyder uses that pathos to make us want to see him gloriously return, and actually delivers on it....it will be a beautiful thing.

Sometimes, I wonder if Snyder isn't doing some of this to intentionally make us feel like the world in the film feels...so that we have an emotional connection to Supes that is strong, because we've been following every up and down. This could work to make Supes amazing. If he delivers on getting us to that promised land. If he does, it will feel so earned and be the best Superman ever.

Sadly, all that seems to be spreading around is how awesome batman is for kicking supes ass

Like we didn't have enough of that already.

I'm gonna try to remain optimistic for Superman's future. But I still feel cheated and betrayed by what Snyder & Co decided to do with Clark/Superman. Especially when I used to think they really cared for this beloved character.

 

[Tony Gunk]

I wonder where this scene was gonna fit.

I thought that was Snyder predicting the total number of fresh reviews on RT

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

Yeah.
The Superman/Batman battle really felt like a slap in the face. The whole sequence really humiliates Superman, I mean, ok I get it, Batman uses kryptonite, starts punching him, Superman gets a couple of good moments, but damn, enough was enough, was it necessary to tie his feet, swing him around the room, throw a sink on his head, make him scream in agonizing pain while Batman towered over him. Make him scream and moan on the floor.

They wanted Batman to win the fight, fine, make him win, but was it necessary to show all those scenes?

Knowing what we as the audience knew, I didn't think that it humiliated Superman - to me it made Clark look like the better man and Bruce/Batman look like a hateful, petty bully who wasn't willing to listen to reason. As much as I hated Lex for forcing Clark into the fight, I also hated Bruce for not being willing to listen to Clark and for how he seemed to enjoy inflicting all that pain on him. "I failed him in life" - damn right you did Bruce, saving Martha was a start but you've got a LOT of making up to do!

 

[Herolee10]

What do you think is going to happen? Care to elaborate or is that for another board? I'm just curious...

It means even though Cavill will star in the film, there's a STRONG chance that won't be a part of the official line up.

It's most likely that the film may not even promote him being in this film as Sndyer's way or trying to make people think that Superman isn't returning (when we all know that he is).

 

[The Guard]

It means even though Cavill will star in the film, there's a STRONG chance that won't be a part of the official line up.

It's most likely that the film may not even promote him being in this film as Sndyer's way or trying to make people think that Superman isn't returning (when we all know that he is).

And your basis for this is...

Cavill has already said he will be.

 

[Andreth]

Knowing what we as the audience knew, I didn't think that it humiliated Superman - to me it made Clark look like the better man and Bruce/Batman look like a hateful, petty bully who wasn't willing to listen to reason. As much as I hated Lex for forcing Clark into the fight, I also hated Bruce for not being willing to listen to Clark and for how he seemed to enjoy inflicting all that pain on him. "I failed him in life" - damn right you did Bruce, saving Martha was a start but you've got a LOT of making up to do!

He would have looked like the better man if he wasn't poisoned with Kryptonite, if he would have been restraining himself, but he was actually suffering and couldn't fight Batman.

The whole swinging his body with his feet tied scene was too much. I did feel it humiliated him.


It looks like they edited out too much Clark stuff
we didn't get that scene I posted above.

Or Clark investigating

Some more DP stuff

And what happened to the sunny Metropolis in some promos?

 

[Herolee10]

And your basis for this is...

Cavill has already said he will be.

Snyder's interviews. The Director's words are pretty much more important than the actor's one in cases like this.

Snyder wanted Superman out of the way so that Batman could create the JL on his own. Plus, Snyder wants the JL to spend time searching for Superman as well, meaning that we won't be getting much time devoted to Superman forging relationships with the members.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

He would have looked like the better man if he wasn't poisoned with Kryptonite, if he would have been restraining himself, but he was actually suffering and couldn't fight Batman.

The whole swinging his body with his feet tied scene was too much. I did feel it humiliated him.


It looks like they edited out too much Clark stuff
we didn't get that scene I posted above.

Or Clark investigating

Some more DP stuff

And what happened to the sunny Metropolis in some promos?

Spoiler

The Clark Kent in Gotham bits should be in the ultimate cut. Would have been nice to get that in the theatrical release. Maybe what he discovers there is too much for the PG-13 cut? Who knows.

 

[Andreth]

Spoiler

The Clark Kent in Gotham bits should be in the ultimate cut. Would have been nice to get that in the theatrical release. Maybe what he discovers there is too much for the PG-13 cut? Who knows.

Nah, I bet they just wanted to make more time for Batman.

By the way Miss Lois Lane, now that you mention the "I failed him in life, I won't fail him in death" line

I'm trying to figure out the meaning. He says it while watching Lois at the grave. Is he gonna start watching her because of that vision?
'Cause I don't think Clark asked him to find the metahumans at all, unless I missed a whole bunch of scenes. That never happened, right?

 

[Rapunzel]

Andreth-. Reposting my analysis of the knightmare, which explains my take on "I failed him" line.

Spoiler

Alright, so I think I've cracked the knightmare/flash scene. It's a future where Bats and Supes aren't working together, and DS has taken advantage of that. All the JLers are scattered, with nobody working together. Possibly, nobody trusted each other, so nobody helps each other out. Basically, DS has divided and conquered. Nobody has united, so they have all fallen.

The scene with Bats/Supes shows that as a result of this disunity, Lois has died, at some point. Obviously, Supes and Bats having never becoming friends, Bats has no idea what her death would mean to Supes. So he's let her die, probably because he chose not to save her because she stood for helping the alien, and he thus didn't care about her. Without that Martha moment, Bruce sunk into darker depths and likely only cares about killing Supes and Darkseid rather than saving anyone.

Flash's warning is him come from the future to tell Bats that "Lois is the key" to understanding Supes. He says that Bruce "was right about" there being a 1% chance Supes could be our enemy and we should "fear him" if something happens to Lois, cause she is the key to him snapping.

But why warn Bruce about a danger he already knows? That was my problem with the whole scene until I realized: the JL is the prevention of Injustice style Supes.

Flash, knowing that Supes is to be feared, has come back to tell Bruce that he needs to "find them" (the JL members) so that they can work with Supes and keep him good, and Lois safe. But the message is "too soon" and Bruce doesn't understand it.

But after the Martha moment, and seeing Lois come to Supes' aid, and possibly the way he acts with her before he dies, Bruce understands the message. He knows that he should have understood that the key to keeping a good guy good is understanding, empathy, rather than confrontation. He was right to worry about the 1% chance, but wrong to launch a preemptive strike. Instead, he should have talked and worked to get to know Supes, because knowing what makes him tick is the way to prevent the 1% while still taking advantage of all the good Supes could do.

Finding the other metas is the way to make sure none of the other metas become dangers...which is the most effective measure for preventing more disasters. Bruce sees that clearly after learning about the other metas and working with Supes/WW to destroy DD. So even though Supes is dead, Bats ois gonna find them, not because he fears Supes anymore, but because it's the thing that will be his real legacy; it will be the most important thing he ever does, not killing Supes (which is what he earlier thought would be his biggest contribution to protecting the world).

So when Bruce says he "failed him in life" (a statement I thought was strange, given he saved Martha) he is talking about that previous future, where he let Supes down by not being his friend and letting Lois die.

But now, he won't fail him in death, cause he's gonna change his ways, and become trusting....so that his lack of trust doesn't lead to the dystopian future he saw and was warned about. Once he does that, Flash's warning has been heeded, and the future set right. Now they will battle DS together, not alone. He will thus keep goood men good by standing with them....which makes Bats founding the JL totally logical....for him, it's the ultimate preventative measure needed.

 

[The Guard]

Snyder's interviews. The Director's words are pretty much more important than the actor's one in cases like this.

Snyder wanted Superman out of the way so that Batman could create the JL on his own. Plus, Snyder wants the JL to spend time searching for Superman as well, meaning that we won't be getting much time devoted to Superman forging relationships with the members.

That does not mean he won't be part of the League, or a key part.

 

[HELLilac]

That does not mean he won't be part of the League, or a key part.

Well, there's another interview when Snyder clearly stated that Superman would have been a de facto leader if he stay around and he WANTED that role for Batman. Like Batman needs to be anymore cooler.

By the time Supes actually comes back Batman'd be already established himself as the leader so no turning point from there. Let's hope he doesn't have to play second fiddle to WW as well.

 

[DeadPresident]

Well, there's another interview when Snyder clearly stated that Superman would have been a de facto leader if he stay around and he WANTED that role for Batman. How f***** up is this guy??

By the time Supes actually comes back Batman'd be already established himself as the leader so no turning point from there. Let's hope he doesn't have to play second fiddle to WW as well.

You're misquoting Snyder and the context he gave his answer in.

 

[Monochron]

I think it's bit on the corny side but incredibly charming none the less.

[YT]d7n3-Ea3BW8[/YT]

 

[Rapunzel]

Well, there's another interview when Snyder clearly stated that Superman would have been a de facto leader if he stay around and he WANTED that role for Batman. How f***** up is this guy??

By the time Supes actually comes back Batman'd be already established himself as the leader so no turning point from there. Let's hope he doesn't have to play second fiddle to WW as well.

Herolee, is that you?

 

[HELLilac]

Sorry for the jumping back and forth in the quotes, but reading this thread a couple times and jumping back and forth does that. If you read this I appreciate your patience and would love any feedback to calm my nerves a bit.

Spoiler

and another, from IGN
"Pretty early on I had this idea that I wanted [Superman's death] to happen. I really felt like if we were going to move forward with the Justice League, that Batman needed to put it together, and you couldn't have this... I mean Superman is Superman," Snyder said. "If he's around, he's going to be put in charge because he's Superman. And so I really felt we need to - in a cool way - create a mechanism that could get him out of the way. And I didn't want to [rolls eyes] freeze him on ice and shoot him into space. I thought that was boring [laughs]."

Its especially clear in the IGN video that Snyder wants Batman leading the JL. Why is it important for Batman to round them up? It actually makes less sense for him to do it, who the hell is he to them? But it'd be cool for Batman fan Zack Snyder. So eh, lets kill off Superman, lets take the Death of Superman which shouldve been its own movie, its own event, and cram it into the last twenty minutes of this movie to get Superman out of the way so Bats can lead the Justice League. IMO, the biggest event in Supermans history has been wasted just so Zack can put Bats front and center OF ANOTHER MOVIE.

Spoiler

At the moment I fear Snyders comments "who knows what hell come back as" and just the restrictions of time is pointing to one option for the villian in JL - Bizzaro.

Think of it, Batman is going to go around looking for and recruiting the JL, while they search for a way to bring back Supes, while building and presenting a heavy for them to have to fight in JL and also build toward Darkside in JL2? The recruiting, plus supermans return, plus JL villain #1 plus build up to darkside sounds like another mess of a movie. Unless the return of Superman and the JL1 villain are one and the same, Bizzaro. And if the good superman is willing to kill, lord what would Snyder have Bizzaro do?
Unless Darkside is the heavy for JL, but then how much could they build him and and then have it all wrapped by the end of the flick? Terrio has basically said it wraps the trilogy, JL1 and JL2 dont seem to be one flick with two parts or Terrio wouldve written both.

Sorry you'll have to find someone else to calm your nerve because I can't be the one to do so. If anything my scepticism is possibly worse than yours.

Zack Snyder's IGN interview is even worse than the EW one. His bias towards Batman is so obvious and borderline disgusting. He doesn't give a **** about increasing Superman fanbase at all. His plan so far for JL is to have the whole creative freedom with his pet character without having to worry about "the other guy" as long as possible. By the time Supes eventually joins the JL he's going to be as crucial to the team as Vision is to TA.