How do you think the X-Men will be introduced into the MCU?

X-Men rebooted for or transferred into the MCU?

  • They'll be transferred (with the same actors) into the MCU by a means I find plausible.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    54
I agree with all of this and it's what I would do more or less. With one exception, I wouldn't restrict the Mutant rise to adolescents, I have no interest in seeing another kiddie X-Men team. The large majority of teen actors stink, I'm out if they go with a bunch of teens or early 20's actors. I'd start with Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Rogue, Pyslocke, Beast, Gambit & Nightcrawler, all 25 or older. Let the teenagers be the students of the School and move up as the franchise goes.

Also, it will and should be a completely new cast.
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If you expand the X-Gene past puberty then the origin stories for the O5 start to unravel and would have to be changed. You lose the X-Gene = Puberty metaphor. Charles' school would have to be changed because no longer is it Charles Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters with a High-school/College curriculum. There's no reason for any of kid mutants to start off as teenagers -- so Kitty, Jubilee, Academy X, Hellions and the New Mutants etc can all be as old as Charles Xavier now when they become mutants. The X-Gene manifesting during adolescence goes deeper than aesthetics..

The X-Men were young for a long time. I don't get the general aversion to X-Men being young when even when Claremont took over #94 onward (1976), they were all between the ages of 18 and 24 years old. Storm was the oldest at 24 while Scott and Jean were 19-20, Kurt/Nightcrawler was 20 and Colossus was 18. Sean and Wolverine were the only older members.

I know people don't want to hear this but the X-Men are and always have been peers of Spider-Man/Peter Parker and not the Avengers. When the X-Men first met the Avengers in issue #8, they were all kids -- inexperienced compared to the adult Avengers exactly like Spidey was:
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... Jean was going to Metro College the same time Peter was going to Empire state. Their football teams were even competing. (Johnny was also going to Metro)
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^^^

Scott married Madelyne Pryor only 2 years before Peter got married to MJ

I'd argue that they were even peers of Spider-Man in 90s TAS as both of them were adults when they teamed up various times in that universe.


This is what we should logically be getting in the MCU
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wP0xFiN.gif


If you expand the X-Gene past puberty then the origin stories for the O5 start to unravel and would have to be changed. You lose the X-Gene = Puberty metaphor. Charles' school would have to be changed because no longer is it Charles Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters with a High-school/College curriculum. There's no reason for any of kid mutants to start off as teenagers -- so Kitty, Jubilee, Academy X, Hellions and the New Mutants etc can all be as old as Charles Xavier now when they become mutants. The X-Gene manifesting during adolescence goes deeper than aesthetics..

The X-Men were young for a long time. I don't get the general aversion to X-Men being young when even when Claremont took over #94 onward (1976), they were all between the ages of 18 and 24 years old. Storm was the oldest at 24 while Scott and Jean were 19-20, Kurt/Nightcrawler was 20 and Colossus was 18. Sean and Wolverine were the only older members.

I know people don't want to hear this but the X-Men are and always have been peers of Spider-Man/Peter Parker and not the Avengers. When the X-Men first met the Avengers in issue #8, they were all kids -- inexperienced compared to the adult Avengers exactly like Spidey was:
View attachment 20573
... Jean was going to Metro College the same time Peter was going to Empire state. Their football teams were even competing. (Johnny was also going to Metro)
View attachment 20571
^^^

Scott married Madelyne Pryor only 2 years before Peter got married to MJ

I'd argue that they were even peers of Spider-Man in 90s TAS as both of them were adults when they teamed up various times in that universe.


This is what we should logically be getting in the MCU
View attachment 20575

I know the story, but this is an adaptation, not an exact copy of the source material and young actors just aren't very good. There is no rule that says you have to start where the comics started. Reading a story on paper is different than watching someone act it out and I just have no interest in watching the growing pains of kids trying to learn acting on the go. You'll get 1 or 2 that will get it off the bat, but a whole cast of teenagers, most are gonna be horrible. I just have no interest in seeing that, never did even when I was a kid myself. I'm just speaking for myself, that's not what I want to see and if they cast a bunch of 15-20 year olds for this reboot, I'll be skipping it.

You don't lose the school, you can still have young characters coming up behind the main team and the younger members of the main team are still early-to-mid-20's in my scenario, it's not like I'm asking for them to all be 30-40 years old. You miss the puberty analogy with the main team but you don't lose the growing up analogy all together and you can still have the puberty angle in the sequel with the newer recruits mixing in. And they'd still be quite a bit younger than the Avengers.
 
I know the story, but this is an adaptation, not an exact copy of the source material and young actors just aren't very good. There is no rule that says you have to start where the comics started. Reading a story on paper is different than watching someone act it out and I just have no interest in watching the growing pains of kids trying to learn acting on the go. You'll get 1 or 2 that will get it off the bat, but a whole cast of teenagers, most are gonna be horrible. I just have no interest in seeing that, never did even when I was a kid myself. I'm just speaking for myself, that's not what I want to see and if they cast a bunch of 15-20 year olds for this reboot, I'll be skipping it.

You don't lose the school, you can still have young characters coming up behind the main team and the younger members of the main team are still early-to-mid-20's in my scenario, it's not like I'm asking for them to all be 30-40 years old. You miss the puberty analogy with the main team but you don't lose the growing up analogy all together and you can still have the puberty angle in the sequel with the newer recruits mixing in. And they'd still be quite a bit younger than the Avengers.
Of course not but if you want to be able to build a sufficient character arc around your hero then starting them off a decade into their superhero occupation is not the smartest move. Not unless you want to do a character deconstruction, which is the most viable option when your protagonist is at their peak. That's what Claremont started doing in the 80s once he had built up the X-Men through the 70s (Scott being a broken man post-Jean, finding love in Jean's clone, Storm shaving her head and losing her powers, Warren becoming Archangel, Betsy brainwashed and turned into a weapon by the Hand etc) You need to- you know, actually have room to develop your character. There still needs to be a developmental ladder for your character to climb. That's why most MCU heroes have proper origins or learning curves.

However, in your case, you say they should drop the X-Gene adolescence angle so the team can be adults when they actually become mutants. That solves the problem of grizzled X-Men but it opens up a new, perhaps- more complicated can of worms. It completely eliminates the need for a school altogether because once you remove the cutoff age for when the X-Gene actually manifests (13-19) then that means ANYBODY, at any any age can become a mutant. You can have a 79 year old become a mutant for the first time. Why would the kids be the "Students" and not the main X-Men when both of them have no handle on their powers? If Scott's mutation first manifests when he's 25 instead of 16/17 like the comics, he would still be considered a "trainee" and be in the same rank as Jubilee or Kitty Pryde who just so happen to become mutants as teenagers. There's no reason for any of these characters to even be teenagers now when we know the X-Gene can activate at any point in a person's life. Not to mention almost all of the X-Men members will have to have their origin changed, including Wolverine. Because each of their origins are intrinsically linked to their powers activating during childhood/adolescence.

So why is there a school? New mutants are no longer exclusive to teenagers so there is no expectation for Charles to have to teach kids. There is no need for a "Gifted Youngsters" program. You'd have to reinvent the "School" into an institute of sorts for all age groups.

So In essence, we'd get something closer too 'Infamous' or 'Heroes' on NBC than X-Men since the mutant concept would be closer to those works.

Also, I wouldn't cast teenagers to play the parts. I'd cast actors that are the same age as Tom Holland and his peers which in 2022-2023 will be early to mid 20s (22-26) so there can be synergy between Spider-Man and the X-Men. For Storm and Forge, I'd go mid to late 20s.
 
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Will it upset folks round here if they just drop the Mutants in, with little to no justification as the fans seem to require? How upset will anyone REALLY be if they just go ahead and say, "They were here all along. We just never did a film/show to showcase these characters. Now we are. That's the extent of our rationalization"?

Do we actually think the mass audience will actually, I don't know... Boycott Marvel films if this is what they do? Cuz that's the only thing that would give them pause if the idea was to just have the X-Men show up one day without bending over backwards to "justify" them outside of the standard baked in idea of random mutation becoming more common in the wider population of the planet.

This would honestly be my first question when pondering this issue. Does Feige and Co. really need some complex or in universe rationalization in order for the MCU X-Men to go over with the mass audience? If the answer can reasonably be thought of as "No" then... I can guess what Feige will spend his time on in terms of shaping this newly reacquired IP. And... I doubt it would be "Convoluted fan theory that less than a one percent of the mass audience either cares about or will bother remembering unless we beat it like a dead horse onscreen."
 
Of course not but if you want to be able to build a sufficient character arc around your hero then starting them off a decade into their superhero occupation is not the smartest move. Not unless you want to do a character deconstruction, which is the most viable option when your protagonist is at their peak. That's what Claremont started doing in the 80s once he had built up the X-Men through the 70s (Scott being a broken man post-Jean, finding love in Jean's clone, Storm shaving her head and losing her powers, Warren becoming Archangel, Betsy brainwashed and turned into a weapon by the Hand etc) You need to- you know, actually have room to develop your character. There still needs to be a developmental ladder for your character to climb. That's why most MCU heroes have proper origins or learning curves.

However, in your case, you say they should drop the X-Gene adolescence angle so the team can be adults when they actually become mutants. That solves the problem of grizzled X-Men but it opens up a new, perhaps- more complicated can of worms. It completely eliminates the need for a school altogether because once you remove the cutoff age for when the X-Gene actually manifests (13-19) then that means ANYBODY, at any any age can become a mutant. You can have a 79 year old become a mutant for the first time. Why would the kids be the "Students" and not the main X-Men when both of them have no handle on their powers? If Scott's mutation first manifests when he's 25 instead of 16/17 like the comics, he would still be considered a "trainee" and be in the same rank as Jubilee or Kitty Pryde who just so happen to become mutants as teenagers. There's no reason for any of these characters to even be teenagers now when we know the X-Gene can activate at any point in a person's life. Not to mention almost all of the X-Men members will have to have their origin changed, including Wolverine. Because each of their origins are intrinsically linked to their powers activating during childhood/adolescence.

So why is there a school? New mutants are no longer exclusive to teenagers so there is no expectation for Charles to have to teach kids. There is no need for a "Gifted Youngsters" program. You'd have to reinvent the "School" into an institute of sorts for all age groups.

So In essence, we'd get something closer too 'Infamous' or 'Heroes' on NBC than X-Men since the mutant concept would be closer to those works.

Also, I wouldn't cast teenagers to play the parts. I'd cast actors that are the same age as Tom Holland and his peers which in 2022-2023 will be early to mid 20s (22-26) so there can be synergy between Spider-Man and the X-Men. For Storm and Forge, I'd go mid to late 20s.

The Main team are supposed to be the Teachers of the Students, why would they be kids too? Xavier doesn't run the school by himself, the main team are his first "Students" by they are also his main teachers. You don't have to get rid of the School, you can explain it with one line "I remember being a mutant as a child and how hard it was, I'm going to start a school to help them adjust to their powers/life". Done. Plus the school hasn't ever been 100% open to only kids, wayward adult mutants have been invited to stay as well, Wolverine. There's no rule that says they have to have been superhero's since they were 15, thus making them 10 year veterans at the age of 25. You can make them young adults that are just kind of drifting through life, struggling with hiding the fact that they have powers. Xavier used Cerebro to hide mutants in the Comics, easy fix for why they aren't known in the MCU. As for why they didn't show up when tragedies were happening in the MCU, think of it like the Army, there are plenty of people who have the potential to be excellent soldiers who just don't join the Army or join alittle later because they find a cause worth fighting for (alot of people joined after 9-11 who had no intention of joining beforehand). Xavier creates the X-Men as a team to combat rouge mutants, and as of now in the MCU, there is no mutants, thus they start at whatever age they are when Mutants begin to pop up and cause problems. It all starts when Xavier finds them, there is no rule that says he has to find them when their powers first manifest and the school really starts after the main team is formed, as they are the teachers. For me, I'd start the original team out as young adults, they start the school and then the teens from the school move up to eventually become part of the team. Starting in the sequel you can start mixing in the teen mutants, that way the whole cast isn't filled with "teenagers".

All these "problems" you mention can be easily worked around, most with a single line of dialogue. And you can always use flashbacks to explore their struggles as teenagers. The bigger issue is how you explain Magneto being a Holocaust survivor in 2020 or Wolverine being in World War II. But that's a simple fix too, they age slower or not at all due to their mutation.

It's all very easy to explain away and doesn't cut Marvel off from any actor over 25, when all the best actors are 25 or older. And they have way more than enough time to develop their characters, regardless of age, that's all due to how much focus they can give each member during the run time of the movies. Age doesn't limit character development and they would all still be in their 20's besides Xavier, Wolverine and Magneto, who should never be teenagers outside of flashbacks anyway.

Truthfully, you should be asking why Xavier would put teenagers in harms way in the first place. None of them should be under 18 while in the field.
 
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The Main team are supposed to be the Teachers of the Students, why would they be kids too?
Because that's exactly what they were in the first 18 years or so of the X-Men's publication history.

You don't have to get rid of the School, you can explain it with one line "I remember being a mutant as a child and how hard it was, I'm going to start a school to help them adjust to their powers/life". Done.
If you eliminate the correlation between puberty and the X-Gene as you suggested, then you would change the mythos on a fundamental level. Why would a school for mutant children exist when the X-Gene is not exclusive to children?

Plus the school hasn't ever been 100% open to only kids, wayward adult mutants have been invited to stay as well, Wolverine.
And at this point, they were all still considered students as there were no younger members for them to teach.
There's no rule that says they have to have been superhero's since they were 15, thus making them 10 year veterans at the age of 25. You can make them young adults that are just kind of drifting through life, struggling with hiding the fact that they have powers.
This is frankly impossible. A character like Scott Summers could not hide the fact that he has mutant powers for 10 years, not when you consider the fact that he barely has control over his Optic blast as an experienced adult. In fact, his powers being impossible to hide is the reason why Charles discovered him in the first place.

How does Warren hide his wings from society for 10 years when Charles isn't around to give him a corset? Does the tractor incident with Piotr not happen when he's a teenager or does his origin be moved up to when he's much older? And if so, Illyana/Magik has to also be aged up 10 years. And nobody has discovered Hank McCoy's ape-like proportions by now? All of these characters are discovered by Charles at a young age when they reach the point where they can no longer hide in society. So now we're suppose to believe that's what they've been doing for 10 years

The only way that someone like Kurt, Hank or Warren could from society is to go underground aka become Morlocks. Scott would have to stay in a reinforced Vibranium room for 10 years
Xavier used Cerebro to hide mutants in the Comics, easy fix for why they aren't known in the MCU.
Cerebro in the comics was created for the exact opposite purpose. To find mutants, not hide them. And when has Cerebro ever been used to hide dozens of mutants in the comics? And if these characters are NOT heroes at this point and are just sort of "drifting through life" not knowing their purpose, why would Charles be hiding them when he doesn't even know them? And if he's been hiding these people for 10 years since their powers first manifested, then this raises the question of why he didn't recruit them much earlier? Why didn't he take these people under his wing when they were young and needed his guidance more than ever? He would have seen their struggle and growing pains going through life trying to hide their mutation for 10+ years.

As for why they didn't show up when tragedies were happening in the MCU, think of it like the Army, there are plenty of people who have the potential to be excellent soldiers who just don't join the Army or join alittle later because they find a cause worth fighting for (alot of people joined after 9-11 who had no intention of joining beforehand). Xavier creates the X-Men as a team to combat rouge mutants, and as of now in the MCU, there is no mutants, thus they start at whatever age they are when Mutants begin to pop up and cause problems. It all starts when Xavier finds them, there is no rule that says he has to find them when their powers first manifest and the school really starts after the main team is formed, as they are the teachers. For me, I'd start the original team out as young adults, they start the school and then the teens from the school move up to eventually become part of the team. Starting in the sequel you can start mixing in the teen mutants, that way the whole cast isn't filled with "teenagers".
So in essence, instead of the X-Men being formed as a teenage group when their powers first manifest, they are now recruited by Charles when they are 25-29 years old, 10-12 years after they've been living with powers. This change is ill-suited for the X-Men. It's trying to avoid the seasoned X-Men in the first movie problem while at the same time time trying to evade the proper steps necessary to get to that point. It's like trying to make Spider-Man 15 when he was bitten by a spider, living with his powers for 10 years only to have Uncle Ben killed when he's 27 and THEN, he becomes a hero -- at 27 years old.

For the record, I'd make them young adults too as even in the original run, they graduated High-school fairly early on. However, I'd make them be YA on the edge of adulthood. People who are fresh out of High-school and like all of us at that stage in life, are still finding themselves. Trying to figure out "Who am I?" . Each of these kids (17-23) come to that conclusion in a different way. Each of them have a flaw/insecurity that they have to overcome. That makes for a very compelling arc.
All these "problems" you mention can be easily worked around, most with a single line of dialogue. And you can always use flashbacks to explore their struggles as teenagers. The bigger issue is how you explain Magneto being a Holocaust survivor in 2020 or Wolverine being in World War II. But that's a simple fix too, they age slower or not at all due to their mutation.
But the explanation you provided doesn't make much sense. Flashbacks do not solve the problem of an inherently flawed concept that is born from a desire to get away what the movie is suppose to be. I'd rather go on that journey with these characters and see how a young person deals with being a mutant and having growing pains while at the same time dealing with the grim fact that humanity hates them simply tor being.

Wolverine needs no explanation. He is extremely long-lived courtesy of his healing factor. That's been the canon explanation for decades.

Magneto needs to be updated

It's all very easy to explain away and doesn't cut Marvel off from any actor over 25, when all the best actors are 25 or older. And they have way more than enough time to develop their characters, regardless of age, that's all due to how much focus they can give each member during the run time of the movies. Age doesn't limit character development and they would all still be in their 20's besides Xavier, Wolverine and Magneto, who should never be teenagers outside of flashbacks anyway.

You cast actors that fit the character, not vice-versa. If a 19 year old Scott Summers calls for early-mid 20s, you don't make Scott 29 so actors in that age-range can play him.

There are dozens of accomplished young actors under the age of 27 that are taking the industry by storm. Of course you aren't going to find many 22 year olds on the same level as Meryl Streep but that's not what the role of an X-Man calls for anyway. Most actors in general aren't on her level.

Talent is not solely measured by age. Lucas Hedges is a better actor than Scott Eastwood. Tom Holland has more range than Joel Kinnaman. Hailee Steinfeld has more dynamic acting prowess than Jessica Alba and Lindsay Lohan combined etc.

Truthfully, you should be asking why Xavier would put teenagers in harms way in the first place. None of them should be under 18 while in the field.
And that's actually an interesting question to explore, in-movie. Especially in later movies when the X-Men ARE mature adults and start pushing back against Charles more. What right does Charles have to turn these kids into soldiers to fight for/further his "dream". What kind of moral and ethical questions does such a conodrun raise? How does that affect a young person's psyche? Etc. So many story avenues that they can take this franchise with a PROPERLY developed X-Men
 
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Will it upset folks round here if they just drop the Mutants in, with little to no justification as the fans seem to require? How upset will anyone REALLY be if they just go ahead and say, "They were here all along. We just never did a film/show to showcase these characters. Now we are. That's the extent of our rationalization"?

Do we actually think the mass audience will actually, I don't know... Boycott Marvel films if this is what they do? Cuz that's the only thing that would give them pause if the idea was to just have the X-Men show up one day without bending over backwards to "justify" them outside of the standard baked in idea of random mutation becoming more common in the wider population of the planet.

This would honestly be my first question when pondering this issue. Does Feige and Co. really need some complex or in universe rationalization in order for the MCU X-Men to go over with the mass audience? If the answer can reasonably be thought of as "No" then... I can guess what Feige will spend his time on in terms of shaping this newly reacquired IP. And... I doubt it would be "Convoluted fan theory that less than a one percent of the mass audience either cares about or will bother remembering unless we beat it like a dead horse onscreen."

Probably not, but I'm not judging these things by their popular success... I want good storytelling. And if you just plopped mutants into the Universe and said, "well they were always here"... well, I'd be disappointed for one. They've been doing so good. I hope this thing doesn't start to fall into "well, here's some more poorly thought out garbage, shovel it up like you always do.. we don't care." I've seen enough of that from 20th and Sony IMO, and I don't think it's asking much for Marvel to come up with an in-unverse explanation for mutants. It'll help give the story credibility... and we can still continue to cash in all those mass audience bucks.
 
Because that's exactly what they were in the first 18 years or so of the X-Men's publication history.

If you eliminate the correlation between puberty and the X-Gene as you suggested, then you would change the mythos on a fundamental level. Why would a school for mutant children exist when the X-Gene is not exclusive to children?

And at this point, they were all still considered students as there were no younger members for them to teach.
This is frankly impossible. A character like Scott Summers could not hide the fact that he has mutant powers for 10 years, not when you consider the fact that he barely has control over his Optic blast as an experienced adult. In fact, his powers being impossible to hide is the reason why Charles discovered him in the first place.

How does Warren hide his wings from society for 10 years when Charles isn't around to give him a corset? Does the tractor incident with Piotr not happen when he's a teenager or does his origin be moved up to when he's much older? And if so, Illyana/Magik has to also be aged up 10 years. And nobody has discovered Hank McCoy's ape-like proportions by now? All of these characters are discovered by Charles at a young age when they reach the point where they can no longer hide in society. So now we're suppose to believe that's what they've been doing for 10 years

The only way that someone like Kurt, Hank or Warren could from society is to go underground aka become Morlocks. Scott would have to stay in a reinforced Vibranium room for 10 years

Cerebro in the comics was created for the exact opposite purpose. To find mutants, not hide them. And when has Cerebro ever been used to hide dozens of mutants in the comics? And if these characters are NOT heroes at this point and are just sort of "drifting through life" not knowing their purpose, why would Charles be hiding them when he doesn't even know them? And if he's been hiding these people for 10 years since their powers first manifested, then this raises the question of why he didn't recruit them much earlier? Why didn't he take these people under his wing when they were young and needed his guidance more than ever? He would have seen their struggle and growing pains going through life trying to hide their mutation for 10+ years.

So in essence, instead of the X-Men being formed as a teenage group when their powers first manifest, they are now recruited by Charles when they are 25-29 years old, 10-12 years after they've been living with powers. This change is ill-suited for the X-Men. It's trying to avoid the seasoned X-Men in the first movie problem while at the same time time trying to evade the proper steps necessary to get to that point. It's like trying to make Spider-Man 15 when he was bitten by a spider, living with his powers for 10 years only to have Uncle Ben killed when he's 27 and THEN, he becomes a hero -- at 27 years old.

For the record, I'd make them young adults too as even in the original run, they graduated High-school fairly early on. However, I'd make them be YA on the edge of adulthood. People who are fresh out of High-school and like all of us at that stage in life, are still finding themselves. Trying to figure out "Who am I?" . Each of these kids (17-23) come to that conclusion in a different way. Each of them have a flaw/insecurity that they have to overcome. That makes for a very compelling arc.
But the explanation you provided doesn't make much sense. Flashbacks do not solve the problem of an inherently flawed concept that is born from a desire to get away what the movie is suppose to be. I'd rather go on that journey with these characters and see how a young person deals with being a mutant and having growing pains while at the same time dealing with the grim fact that humanity hates them simply tor being.

Wolverine needs no explanation. He is extremely long-lived courtesy of his healing factor. That's been the canon explanation for decades.

Magneto needs to be updated



You cast actors that fit the character, not vice-versa. If a 19 year old Scott Summers calls for early-mid 20s, you don't make Scott 29 so actors in that age-range can play him.

There are dozens of accomplished young actors under the age of 27 that are taking the industry by storm. Of course you aren't going to find many 22 year olds on the same level as Meryl Streep but that's not what the role of an X-Man calls for anyway. Most actors in general aren't on her level.

Talent is not solely measured by age. Lucas Hedges is a better actor than Scott Eastwood. Tom Holland has more range than Joel Kinnaman. Hailee Steinfeld has more dynamic acting prowess than Jessica Alba and Lindsay Lohan combined etc.


And that's actually an interesting question to explore, in-movie. Especially in later movies when the X-Men ARE mature adults and start pushing back against Charles more. What right does Charles have to turn these kids into soldiers to fight for/further his "dream". What kind of moral and ethical questions does such a conodrun raise? How does that affect a young person's psyche? Etc. So many story avenues that they can take this franchise with a PROPERLY developed X-Men

You're taking what I said way too literally. But it's my fault for wording it poorly. You can introduce them meeting Xavier as teenagers and others he finds later down the road. My main point, is that I don't want them to be teenagers for the whole movie or multiple movies because I have no interest in that young of actors playing the roles. We just had X-Men Apocalypse show their origins, do you really want to retread all their origins beat by beat again? A route similar to X-Men 1 is what I am calling for.
 
I would have Strange bump into Charles at some science conference in Doctor Strange 2. After the snap is reversed scientists all over the world start noticing weird anomalies. Charles attends these conferences to keep tabs on how much people know about mutants. Strange attends out curiosity given his medical background.
 
Probably not, but I'm not judging these things by their popular success... I want good storytelling. And if you just plopped mutants into the Universe and said, "well they were always here"... well, I'd be disappointed for one. They've been doing so good. I hope this thing doesn't start to fall into "well, here's some more poorly thought out garbage, shovel it up like you always do.. we don't care." I've seen enough of that from 20th and Sony IMO, and I don't think it's asking much for Marvel to come up with an in-unverse explanation for mutants. It'll help give the story credibility... and we can still continue to cash in all those mass audience bucks.
co-signed.
I want huge action, spectacle, powers, x-men all over the place, costumes and all....... but I want good storytelling too.

Marvel can do it. So I hope they do it.

Fox has done quite a few random choices, Moira suddenly awakening Apocalypse after 2000 years, or Kitty suddenly having time travel powers. I hate stuff like this. Give me a good explanation and storytelling, thank you.
 
You're taking what I said way too literally. But it's my fault for wording it poorly. You can introduce them meeting Xavier as teenagers and others he finds later down the road. My main point, is that I don't want them to be teenagers for the whole movie or multiple movies because I have no interest in that young of actors playing the roles. We just had X-Men Apocalypse show their origins, do you really want to retread all their origins beat by beat again? A route similar to X-Men 1 is what I am calling for.
It does not have to be an origin story. The X-Men being young does not end at their origins. It's about their growth and getting to *That* point. We've seen Scott get his powers but we've never seen what happens after that fact. How he learns how to put aside his insecurities and become the leader-man Cyke. If he's 19-20 and has had his powers for a year or two, we skip the origin but not the character defining journey i.e Homecoming and Captain Marvel. He's already Cyclops but he doesn't know how to be a "pertect" Cyclops yet. We need to see this:
IMG_oh1vya.jpg IMG_fw8t14.jpg IMG_-ns1yw5.jpg IMG_f5yy22.jpg

Before we get to this:



XGdLIiM.jpg
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Otherwise, it's all style and no substance. We get the badass, mature, perfect, ideal Cyclops that everybody wants. Kicking ass with very few flaws ala Astonishing/Whedon/'91 Scott. The main difference being, it's not earned in the MCU and it means nothing. There's no lesson to learn, no character arc to complete, no journey that precedes this AWESOMENESS. Just a shallow vision of what Cyclops is suppose to be.

Ditto for Jean and Storm. I'd want to see Storm as she was first introduced in the comics -- an outsider who is naive to the true evils of the world, somebody pure-of-heart who wants to see the good in everyone. Her learning curve could be similar to Diana's arc in Wonder Woman.

X-Men (2000) is sort of the shining example of why they shouldn't go that route again. The reason why the X-Men were already fully-formed was because that movie was not about them. It was about Logan -- HIS journey to self-discovery. The XM were there to further his character arc, Cyclops and Jean were chess pieces.

Had the movie actually been about them, they would have had to have been much younger and rougher around the edges so there could be room for growth. So there could be an actual character arc for them like Logan had. There's reason why none of them had an arc for all of 3 movies. They weren't the protagonists.

The same really goes for Apocalypse, really. The idea of a younger team was never explored because they weren't the focus of their own movie.

First Class had more development for the actual X-Men than the OT, DOFP and Apocalypse combined.
 
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I know the story, but this is an adaptation, not an exact copy of the source material and young actors just aren't very good. There is no rule that says you have to start where the comics started. Reading a story on paper is different than watching someone act it out and I just have no interest in watching the growing pains of kids trying to learn acting on the go. You'll get 1 or 2 that will get it off the bat, but a whole cast of teenagers, most are gonna be horrible. I just have no interest in seeing that, never did even when I was a kid myself. I'm just speaking for myself, that's not what I want to see and if they cast a bunch of 15-20 year olds for this reboot, I'll be skipping it.

You don't lose the school, you can still have young characters coming up behind the main team and the younger members of the main team are still early-to-mid-20's in my scenario, it's not like I'm asking for them to all be 30-40 years old. You miss the puberty analogy with the main team but you don't lose the growing up analogy all together and you can still have the puberty angle in the sequel with the newer recruits mixing in. And they'd still be quite a bit younger than the Avengers.

There are plenty of talented young actors looking to make their break in the industry. We've already seen X-men films with the cast as seasoned adults. Even the films like First Class and Apocalypse which tried to give us younger and newer teams became preoccupied with the older characters. That's one of the biggest problems with the Fox-Men franchise - the students have always been the secondary characters.

I'd like to see them go really young for the new X-men. Like 15-18. The vibe should be like Hogwarts for superheroes. There should be a big focus on the teenage mutants learning how to control their powers and coming into their own both as young adults and as superheroes.
 
The Fox movies already dealt with the whole bigotry aspect of Mutants to its fullest extent. I honestly don’t want to see any of that in the new movies
 
There are plenty of talented young actors looking to make their break in the industry. We've already seen X-men films with the cast as seasoned adults. Even the films like First Class and Apocalypse which tried to give us younger and newer teams became preoccupied with the older characters. That's one of the biggest problems with the Fox-Men franchise - the students have always been the secondary characters.

I'd like to see them go really young for the new X-men. Like 15-18. The vibe should be like Hogwarts for superheroes. There should be a big focus on the teenage mutants learning how to control their powers and coming into their own both as young adults and as superheroes.

And I won't fault you for wanting to see that, but if that is the route they go, I'm not the least bit interested.
 
Probably not, but I'm not judging these things by their popular success... I want good storytelling. And if you just plopped mutants into the Universe and said, "well they were always here"... well, I'd be disappointed for one. They've been doing so good. I hope this thing doesn't start to fall into "well, here's some more poorly thought out garbage, shovel it up like you always do.. we don't care." I've seen enough of that from 20th and Sony IMO, and I don't think it's asking much for Marvel to come up with an in-unverse explanation for mutants. It'll help give the story credibility... and we can still continue to cash in all those mass audience bucks.

But see for me what you are stating here begs the question again... Will such an "in-universe explanation" or for that matter lack thereof really matter to the critical/financial and popular success of a MCU Mutant film? Especially if that's all you are asking for. Simply some kind of, essentially, exposition that allows for a hard core fan to justify his or her's suspension of disbelief when it might actually be on the face of it, superfluous rather than necessary.

I'll give my own example and it comes from the MCU.

In the comics the precise nature of Thor and the Asgardians has been presented in varied ways over the years. Lee/Kirby, the originators, had what might charitably be called the "Super Space Viking" approach. These are super beings mistaken for gods on Earth but are when you boil it down, cosmic entities from parallel worlds operating with power and scientific knowledge that dwarfs the mundane world of man. Gods with "quotation marks". Others have taken much more of a classic approach. These folks, and I would say Simonson was the best and probably the first to be successful with this take, present these characters as, well... GODS. The presentation is far closer to things along the lines of Dungeons and Dragons or LoTR or any more narrowly defined as "fantasy" franchises or genres. There is less talk of scif fi concepts per se, and more emphasis on essentially magic, power of gods etc. Sure, even Simonson had a foot in both world a bit. I remember seeing how Stormbreaker was forged and... Let's just say Simonson had these characters all look and sound like standard fantasy tropes and then the dwarves pull out a high tech facility/forge and Odin, Thor and Bill put on safety goggles and... It felt off given how Simonson had mostly done his stories. Simonson's Thor was big epic fantasy and aside from a handful of moments mostly just was assured that the audience got that these are Gods and didn't need some underlying airtight, yet ultimately still fictional pseudoscientific techno babble to justify everything each issue. For my own druthers, I prefer "Norse God" Marvel Thor to "Cosmic Space Alien Viking" Thor.

Now... I'm someone that actually adores the first Thor film from Marvel, despite agreeing with a lot of criticism about it's shortcomings. There's one thing that feels off, and it's ultimately the decision to make Thor and the other Asgardians merely "Cosmic Alien Space Vikings" (for reasons that I think were ultimately a sop to the politically active Evangelical movement of America) rather than as a pantheon of gods. In the film they have some scenes where the audience is told to simply think of what Thor and his people do as sci fi concepts. AAAANNNND... Said exposition plays zero part in any other aspect of the film. Zero. It's so superfluous this explanation that if you were to cut this idea out of the film really nothing for the plot or the characters changes. At all. If anything it makes more sense cutting it out because, okay, fine... The Bifrost, Loki's conjuring, the power of Mjolnir and on and on... All sci fi concepts now. Except of course... The movie never goes to any lengths (or depths) to explain these things really. Okay... The Bifrost is an Einstein-Rosen bridge that bends space/time and... It's never even hinted at what sci fi concept this is working off of. How's it powered, how was it made, what's it's limits... Not a peep in the script. Ditto all the stuff Loki does, or Odin. If you actually cut out the, in my view, politically mandated rationale and were to see it for the first time... Everything still works. Loki and Odin come off as powerful users of magic and Mjolnir is a magic weapon. I mean, I don't know what the pseudo science explanation of the enchantment of Mjolnir would be but it would have to boil down to essentially an inanimate object being able to make a moral decision on an individual sentient being's character or "soul". After some old man "whispered" to it


...

...

...


That's magic to me and I don't care about the usual "All advanced science would appear as Magic" quote we always throw around. In presentation it 90% comes off "magical" excepting of course that Hemsworth has to have a line that makes it sci fi. Excise that rationale that's jammed into the script though and nothing changes in terms of plot or character. Nothing. It felt like what happened with Lucas and the Phantom Menace. That film has an answer to a question no one in the mass audience nor for that matter do I think the majority of even super fans were asking: What's the sci fi rationale for what the Jedi can do? Lucas said it's midichlorians. Take that aspect out of the film and honestly, it won't make the film better but... It won't make it worse. It affects nothing if it were cut out and indeed it's not brought up again for the remainder of the prequels.


This brings me to the X-Men and introducing them to the MCU. I don't think we really need that rationale because it really doesn't add to the "quality" of the storytelling at the end of the day, it's an answer to a question that outside of the fanboy/girl circles no one cares about. Not really. Unless said justification can improve upon or expand upon the general ideas behind the X-Men concept or characters I'm not of the mind it really adds to either the quality of the film or is ultimately necessary. The audience didn't know Wakanda was out there before CW and it didn't affect my or others' view on that film's quality. That's true for a lot of concepts in the MCU. I'm not really waiting to hear in universe justification beyond the standard idea of random super powered mutation to explain the abilities of the characters. And I don't think the mass audience or the critics will really care if they don't do that too.
 
But see for me what you are stating here begs the question again... Will such an "in-universe explanation" or for that matter lack thereof really matter to the critical/financial and popular success of a MCU Mutant film? Especially if that's all you are asking for. Simply some kind of, essentially, exposition that allows for a hard core fan to justify his or her's suspension of disbelief when it might actually be on the face of it, superfluous rather than necessary.

I'll give my own example and it comes from the MCU.

In the comics the precise nature of Thor and the Asgardians has been presented in varied ways over the years. Lee/Kirby, the originators, had what might charitably be called the "Super Space Viking" approach. These are super beings mistaken for gods on Earth but are when you boil it down, cosmic entities from parallel worlds operating with power and scientific knowledge that dwarfs the mundane world of man. Gods with "quotation marks". Others have taken much more of a classic approach. These folks, and I would say Simonson was the best and probably the first to be successful with this take, present these characters as, well... GODS. The presentation is far closer to things along the lines of Dungeons and Dragons or LoTR or any more narrowly defined as "fantasy" franchises or genres. There is less talk of scif fi concepts per se, and more emphasis on essentially magic, power of gods etc. Sure, even Simonson had a foot in both world a bit. I remember seeing how Stormbreaker was forged and... Let's just say Simonson had these characters all look and sound like standard fantasy tropes and then the dwarves pull out a high tech facility/forge and Odin, Thor and Bill put on safety goggles and... It felt off given how Simonson had mostly done his stories. Simonson's Thor was big epic fantasy and aside from a handful of moments mostly just was assured that the audience got that these are Gods and didn't need some underlying airtight, yet ultimately still fictional pseudoscientific techno babble to justify everything each issue. For my own druthers, I prefer "Norse God" Marvel Thor to "Cosmic Space Alien Viking" Thor.

Now... I'm someone that actually adores the first Thor film from Marvel, despite agreeing with a lot of criticism about it's shortcomings. There's one thing that feels off, and it's ultimately the decision to make Thor and the other Asgardians merely "Cosmic Alien Space Vikings" (for reasons that I think were ultimately a sop to the politically active Evangelical movement of America) rather than as a pantheon of gods. In the film they have some scenes where the audience is told to simply think of what Thor and his people do as sci fi concepts. AAAANNNND... Said exposition plays zero part in any other aspect of the film. Zero. It's so superfluous this explanation that if you were to cut this idea out of the film really nothing for the plot or the characters changes. At all. If anything it makes more sense cutting it out because, okay, fine... The Bifrost, Loki's conjuring, the power of Mjolnir and on and on... All sci fi concepts now. Except of course... The movie never goes to any lengths (or depths) to explain these things really. Okay... The Bifrost is an Einstein-Rosen bridge that bends space/time and... It's never even hinted at what sci fi concept this is working off of. How's it powered, how was it made, what's it's limits... Not a peep in the script. Ditto all the stuff Loki does, or Odin. If you actually cut out the, in my view, politically mandated rationale and were to see it for the first time... Everything still works. Loki and Odin come off as powerful users of magic and Mjolnir is a magic weapon. I mean, I don't know what the pseudo science explanation of the enchantment of Mjolnir would be but it would have to boil down to essentially an inanimate object being able to make a moral decision on an individual sentient being's character or "soul". After some old man "whispered" to it


...

...

...


That's magic to me and I don't care about the usual "All advanced science would appear as Magic" quote we always throw around. In presentation it 90% comes off "magical" excepting of course that Hemsworth has to have a line that makes it sci fi. Excise that rationale that's jammed into the script though and nothing changes in terms of plot or character. Nothing. It felt like what happened with Lucas and the Phantom Menace. That film has an answer to a question no one in the mass audience nor for that matter do I think the majority of even super fans were asking: What's the sci fi rationale for what the Jedi can do? Lucas said it's midichlorians. Take that aspect out of the film and honestly, it won't make the film better but... It won't make it worse. It affects nothing if it were cut out and indeed it's not brought up again for the remainder of the prequels.


This brings me to the X-Men and introducing them to the MCU. I don't think we really need that rationale because it really doesn't add to the "quality" of the storytelling at the end of the day, it's an answer to a question that outside of the fanboy/girl circles no one cares about. Not really. Unless said justification can improve upon or expand upon the general ideas behind the X-Men concept or characters I'm not of the mind it really adds to either the quality of the film or is ultimately necessary. The audience didn't know Wakanda was out there before CW and it didn't affect my or others' view on that film's quality. That's true for a lot of concepts in the MCU. I'm not really waiting to hear in universe justification beyond the standard idea of random super powered mutation to explain the abilities of the characters. And I don't think the mass audience or the critics will really care if they don't do that too.

Some really good thoughts here! You know...we'll see. I've already admitted that you're probably right... mass audiences won't really care. They are just there to see a spectacle.. the connective tissue isn't as important.
But I do think it'd matter to me. The idea that mutants have always been there, and they are just now popping up... well, hey I'll take it... beggers can't be choosers. But I don't see why they couldn't create an in-universe explanation. It's a win-win.. the mass audience will still be happy, cause they really don't care, and fans will be happy too. And that leads to even more mula.
And it just wouldn't be that hard. Shield experiments with the stone did it. Thanos snap did it somehow. Maybe the mutant gene developed only a few years earlier.. so all the mutants are kids, and that's why they were invisible up til now. Just give us something.
 
The Fox movies already dealt with the whole bigotry aspect of Mutants to its fullest extent. I honestly don’t want to see any of that in the new movies

Then you don't really want an X-Men movie. The issue of prejudice and racism is so intimately woven into the fabric of these characters, that you can't take it away. It's what separates them from other Super Hero teams. The Avengers are accepted; the X-Men are not.

What you're saying is the equivalent of "They already explored that Superman is an alien. I honestly don't want to see anything Kryptonian in the new movies." You're free to have that view, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
I can't see how the MCU can properly deal with the X-Men discrimination storylines.
 
Why not? it's been trending that way over several movies
people have grown increasingly weary of superheroes, a sudden boom producing thousands or hundreds of thousands of new powered people would create a lot of hatred and division amongst the human population, born partly out of jealousy and partly out of fear


Maybe the 50% who return to life in Endgame suddenly have powers... dun dun dunnnnn... drama!
jkjk
 
Different is people fear all of the X-Men, people don’t fear the Avengers.
 
Different is people fear all of the X-Men, people don’t fear the Avengers.
Well they fear the Hulk, they are just smart enough not to persecute Dr Banner.

Still unless you bring in the anti Inhuman TV stuff you really don't have any background for the world showing any type of prejudice that the mutants face in their classic stories. It would really seem to come out of nowhere if introduced now in a first MCU X-Men movie.
 
Fans think the X-Men will be thrown into the MCU on day one. I think it’s going to take Marvel a few years to figure out the best way to go. It wouldn’t make much sense for the X-Men to appear out of nowhere. Fans need to be more patient.
 
literally nobody is saying that
 
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