The Amazing Spider-Man 2 How should the Goblin look???

[Spideyfan117]

I guess thinking of it like this, it really has more to do with whether you want the Goblin somewhat self aware or not. cuz each version can't be used in the other's headspace. why would a self aware Goblin wear a mask, and an unaware Ultimate Goblin is really just more like the Hulk, Mr Hyde or something.

Both versions of the Goblin are aware of themselves. Ultimate Goblin wasn't at first, but Norman got control of it.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I think it can even work even if you make him completely sane. I thought they pulled it off well in Spectacular Spider-Man. With Norman successfully testing the Goblin formula on himself and his growing ambitions to have more control and power. So he invented the Green Goblin persona, to do things he could never do has Norman Osborn. And you can say he made the Green Goblin so ridiculous, so that no one in their right mind would ever suspect him to be the Goblin.

This is an oversimplification of TSSM Norman's plan.

Its far more complex than this.

For example, he didn't go insane and feel adverse effects from the globulin green (the goblin formula) like Harry (who had started using it, drawing Peter's suspicions that he was goblin) did because he deduced that small doses over a long period of time could deter those effects while making him stronger than a single large dose would.

And as far as concealing his identity, there were multiple factors that went into that (both purposeful and unexpected) but the 2 most crucial are

A) His framing Harry after quickly discovering he'd use the formula on himself.

and

B) The initial unexpected appearance, and then later hired appearance, of Chameleon as Norman Osborn, and at one point in the final story, Osborn as the Goblin (there was a double unmasking scene that was brilliant in which its Harry deduces that its not Norman).


Plus, it wasn't just creating an outrageous persona. He also did things like attacking his own facility, stealing his own Oscorp weapons, attacking galas he'd plan, etc.

 

[Nathan]

What do you mean oversimplification? That's it basically in a nutshell. Norman wanted more power and used the Goblin persona to acquire that power. Do I need to list all of the situations that occurred in pursuit of that goal?

 

[SpideyFan866]

No. But that story is so good it pains me to see it simplified. t:

But you did hit the basic points. But that's really the basic points for green goblin period. in any incarnation.

I was just saying there was more to if in TSSM's version of it.

 

[Nathan]

I hope in this Trilogy they do a better job of showing how Goblin will accomplish his goals. In SM1, he was basically just terrorizing the city. In Spectacular Spider-Man, he successfully usurped the Big Man's throne as the Kingpin of Crime. I want clear goals and a solid plan on how he's going to accomplish them.

 

[JOE]

I want a Goblin with a 5 year plan.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I want a Goblin with a 5 year plan.

What? Don't die?

 

[Morbius]

What? Don't die?

I'm happy with Norman being in several films - if that's the case, it won't be too much of an issue if Goblin dies in the same movie where he finally emerges.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I don't want any villain to die.

I'm sick and tired of villains being killed off in cbms.

 

[Nathan]

If Goblin dies, then he should come back to reveal he only faked his death.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Except latex masks don't move naturally with the wearer. Any high quality latex work (like Amalgamated Dynamics' work) sometimes takes hours to put on so it will work right. So unless we want the kind of mask you find in a costume store, it's going to be questionable how he is able to get a mask that works that way. Of course, they could just as easily have something about all the Goblin's gear, including the mask, being some sort of high tech something-or-other that molds to his face. But I find the transformation to be much more straightforward.

It seems Vid and SpideyFan866 have already covered this in the last page or so. And they're absolutely correct.

Well firstly, people don't have spider powers or turn into giant lizardmen either but audiences don't have a problem accepting that so they certainly aren't going to balk at a mask, and second, yes they can move quite realistically as demonstrated in the already posted video where a kid just puts one on without spending hours doing so.

If you're outright against a mask for whatever reason that's fine but I keep seeing this "not realistic" argument and it doesn't hold water.

1. That video shows him opening and closing his mouth. Not exactly expressive, is it?

2. Suspension fo disbelief doesn't mean that just because we understand that one or two things in the world they've established are ridiculous, that doesn't mean that everything is. It's baffling that people still don't understand this concept. So just because a guy has spider-powers, that doesn't mean that everything else in the movie is allowed to be ridiculous and "unrealistic". It should still, for the most part, resemble our own world. The world they've established should function by their own established internal logic. What kind of logic would there be for a latex mask mirroring every facial expression one makes?

Preach it! This "it's unrealistic" talk and mentality is stupid and extremely unimaginative. I'm very sure some creative guys could come up with something to make the mask work perfectly in a movie.

The only thing that's unimaginative is the school of thought that says: Spider-Man is inherently unrealistic! It's fantasy! Anything goes!
That's not how suspension of disbelief works.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It must be difficult being a movie fan and feeling you need every tiny detail drawn out for you.

 

[Vid Electricz]

It must be difficult being a movie fan and feeling you need every tiny detail drawn out for you.

If only. Clearly, you've missed the entire gist of my previous post.

Let me help you:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief

A common way of putting this is "You can ask an audience to believe the impossible, but not the improbable." For example, people will accept that the Grand Mage can teleport across the world, or that the spaceship has technology that makes it completely invisible without rendering its own sensors blind, but they won't accept that the ferocious carnivore just happened to have a heart attack and die right before it attacked the main character, or that the hacker guessed his enemy's password on the first try just by typing random letters, at least without some prior detailjustifying it or one of the Rules listed below coming into play. What is in Real Life impossible just has to be made the norm in the setting and kept consistent.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Let me help you:

I have a better idea - it starts with you finding someone else to talk down to.

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

No one cried foul when they did it in Mrs. Doubtfire.

 

[SpideyFan866]

No one cried foul when they did it in Mrs. Doubtfire.

That was a prosthetic, not a simple mask like the people here are advocating.

 

[Green Goblin]

*gets popcorn as Vid argues with someone*

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

In real life it was a prosthetic but in the context of the movie it was a mask, hence why he could change so quickly.

 

[Nathan]

It was still supposed to be a mask that he throws on in a matter of seconds, and perfectly adjusts to his face.

 

[Victarion]

Here's the thing, Spider powers and lizard transformations have to be explained as well. It's not about realism. It's about making something impossible, or improbably, believable. While that mask is impressive, it still only expressive with the mouth. The rest of the face is unexpressive. So transformation is still more fitting imo.

Not once did I say it was "not realistic." I'm firmly against the "grounded and realistic" fad that is crippling the imaginative spirit in so much of the film industry right now.

I don't think it cripples the imaginative spirit at all. Mistranslations of what "grounded and realistic" mean might. No, when you adapt the fantastic elements of the comics, you ground them by showing how a city might respond to those elements in real life. If anything, grounding the concepts in realism supplements the imaginative spirit.

That said, I'm interested in Norman's motive for choosing a mask that looks like a goblin. Assuming they don't make him a cross-species chimera.

 

[GuestStar2004]

i think its fair to say GG will be a mutant of sorta

 

[Oscorp]

1. That video shows him opening and closing his mouth. Not exactly expressive, is it?

2. Suspension fo disbelief doesn't mean that just because we understand that one or two things in the world they've established are ridiculous, that doesn't mean that everything is. It's baffling that people still don't understand this concept. So just because a guy has spider-powers, that doesn't mean that everything else in the movie is allowed to be ridiculous and "unrealistic". It should still, for the most part, resemble our own world. The world they've established should function by their own established internal logic. What kind of logic would there be for a latex mask mirroring every facial expression one makes?



The only thing that's unimaginative is the school of thought that says: Spider-Man is inherently unrealistic! It's fantasy! Anything goes!
That's not how suspension of disbelief works.

But they don't necessarily have to go with a standard mask, as long as it's a mask that takes the appearance of a face. It could be some advanced, high-tech mask. I'm not speaking of something like the one in SM1, but rather something that can move with the face due tue some high-tech stuff. I don't know. I just think that the transformation thing is extremely generic, and it's way more interesting with a villain that puts on such a costume in my opinion.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I don't think it cripples the imaginative spirit at all. Mistranslations of what "grounded and realistic" mean might. No, when you adapt the fantastic elements of the comics, you ground them by showing how a city might respond to those elements in real life. If anything, grounding the concepts in realism supplements the imaginative spirit.

That said, I'm interested in Norman's motive for choosing a mask that looks like a goblin. Assuming they don't make him a cross-species chimera.

 

[Green Goblin]

I don't think it cripples the imaginative spirit at all. Mistranslations of what "grounded and realistic" mean might. No, when you adapt the fantastic elements of the comics, you ground them by showing how a city might respond to those elements in real life. If anything, grounding the concepts in realism supplements the imaginative spirit.

That said, I'm interested in Norman's motive for choosing a mask that looks like a goblin. Assuming they don't make him a cross-species chimera.

Norman wears the mask because he was afraid, yet fascinated by it.

 

[Nathan]

I wouldn't have a problem if they explain that the inside of the mask is lined with like nanotech, and adheres itself to the face when put on. Maybe put the Chameleon on Osborn's payroll, and say his company came up with the tech that allows the Chameleon to quickly change faces.