"I am DOOM! What MODS Dare Stand Against Me! - Part 2

[Whiskey Tango]

Marvel's problem with their villains is that they don't give them enough character development. If villains like Ronan or Malekith or Yellowjacket had just had an extra couple scenes of development it would have made a world of difference.

Seriously they need to stop trimming the runtimes and let these things breath. They been doing that **** since at least TIH.

 

[Eddie]

Seriously they need to stop trimming the runtimes and let these things breath. They been doing that **** since at least TIH.

I could see that change with the shakeup. The Marvel head honcho is a notorious penny pincher. Now that Marvel films is no longer reporting to him they may not have the runtimes so closely monitored (when there's as much CG as modern blockbusters have, longer films cost more).

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I don't know if runtime is the problem. The villains just aren't threatening or memorable. And I've heard people who read comics complain that they watered down Ultron. I wonder if Disney just won't let them develop real threatening villains.

 

[Eddie]

Disney's had great villains for years, so I doubt that's the problem. There's a reason the likes of Scar, Jafar, Hades, Ursula, etc., are still iconic villains popular with today's kids.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Oh crap you're right, I forgot Disney can do dark. Even back in the day the Witch from Snow White and Maleficent creeps people out. And let's not get started on the end of Fantasia....maybe they can only allow good scary developed villains in animation not in live action? Or maybe it is just Marvel.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I think people over exaggerate Marvel's "villain problem".

 

[Flint Marko]

I think people over exaggerate Marvel's "villain problem".

They most certainly do.

 

[SuperSanchez]

They most certainly do.

Most villains are great, only villain I really had a problem with was Malekeith and had a small problem with Hammer and Whiplash.
I loved Killian, he was such an awesome freakin villain!
Alot of people hated YellowJacket but he was so threatening and intimidating so his development wasn't that big of an issue.
Alot of the villains people hate, I tend to love the most xD

 

[The Shape]

I think people over exaggerate Marvel's "villain problem".

Maybe a little, but it's still a problem.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I think Marvels hype is over exaggerated but that's another topic. The villain problem is something people are starting to recognize after multiple movies.

 

[Zarex]

I think Marvels hype is over exaggerated but that's another topic. The villain problem is something people are starting to recognize after multiple movies.

The hype is based on fact. Nearly $9 billion at the BO. The most successful movie franchise in history. There's no exaggeration in those numbers.

The villain problem is an opinion, and is often employed as a counter argument to the raw numbers.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think people over exaggerate Marvel's "villain problem".

Marvel's track record with villains isn't any worse (and arguably better) than any of the other comic book franchises, with one major exception. The exception is Batman, which has had a number of great villains. Batman has by far the best villains in the comics, so it should come as no surprise that he has the best villains in the films too. But if you look at Sony, Fox, or non-Batman DC films, the situation is similar to Marvel.

Marvel has ONE truly great villain, Loki.
Fox has ONE truly great villain, Magneto.
Sony has ONE truly great villain, Dr. Octopus.
DC, not counting Batman, has ONE truly great villain, Terence Stamp's General Zod.

Then there are villains that are still good, but not at that level (the Pierce, Stryker, Dafoe's Goblin, Lex Luthor types).

And those that are crap, like Malekith (although he is more dull than horrible), Dr. Doom, Electro, Parallax, etc.

The only reason it is an issue with Marvel is that they get so much else right. There is nothing to really complain about with their heroes, so all the negative attention gets focused largely on the villains whereas the criticism is more spread out when it comes to the other three companies.

 

[Quasar]

Doom shows up in an episode of Grimm:

 

[Spiderine]

Doom shows up in an episode of Grimm:

What......no trash bags?

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

The hype is based on fact. Nearly $9 billion at the BO. The most successful movie franchise in history. There's no exaggeration in those numbers.

The villain problem is an opinion, and is often employed as a counter argument to the raw numbers.

I'm not talking about numbers I am talking about quality. Making billions doesn't make a movie good. Michael Bay movies make billions.

As for comic book movie villains, I would say Sony had a good one with Doc Oc but that was the best they could do. Fox has been consistent with Xmen villains but has done horrible with Doctor Doom and most would say Galactus. Marvels memorable villain has only been Loki but they also had some good ones in TWS. Ironmans villain was good but he was the start of a pattern which for some people as diminished him. I personally still like the friend whos a back stabber angle.
For DC it is mostly the Batman villains that stand out which is apparently a common theme in comic books as well as movies.
I've noticed some people who bash the Gene Hackman Lex...I have never liked him and he can't hold a candle to Zod; but I honestly can't say one way or another if Gene played a good villain or not. Zod is Zod....that's all. I feel MOS Zod was also a good villain with an interesting arc and story and posed an actual threat. Superman Returns Lex was just a wannabe Gene Hackman with the same lame plan.

Overall I would say the worst villains go to both Spiderman franchises. Are villains like Green Goblin and Electro that lame in the comic books? Yeah I know Doom has been hated 3x in 3 movies but I've never rolled my eyes at him like with The Lizard.

 

[Eddie]

I'm not talking about numbers I am talking about quality. Making billions doesn't make a movie good. Michael Bay movies make billions.

Ooh, bad choice of argument. Every single Marvel Cinematic Universe film was positively reviewed by a majority of critics. Nice try, though...

 

[Zarex]

I'm not talking about numbers I am talking about quality. Making billions doesn't make a movie good. Michael Bay movies make billions.

You were talking about the MCU being overhyped, which is not at all reflected in the series BO success, critical approval or fan support.

 

[Val_Zod]

I'm not talking about numbers I am talking about quality. Making billions doesn't make a movie good. Michael Bay movies make billions.

As for comic book movie villains, I would say Sony had a good one with Doc Oc but that was the best they could do. Fox has been consistent with Xmen villains but has done horrible with Doctor Doom and most would say Galactus. Marvels memorable villain has only been Loki but they also had some good ones in TWS. Ironmans villain was good but he was the start of a pattern which for some people as diminished him. I personally still like the friend whos a back stabber angle.
For DC it is mostly the Batman villains that stand out which is apparently a common theme in comic books as well as movies.
I've noticed some people who bash the Gene Hackman Lex...I have never liked him and he can't hold a candle to Zod; but I honestly can't say one way or another if Gene played a good villain or not. Zod is Zod....that's all. I feel MOS Zod was also a good villain with an interesting arc and story and posed an actual threat. Superman Returns Lex was just a wannabe Gene Hackman with the same lame plan.

Overall I would say the worst villains go to both Spiderman franchises. Are villains like Green Goblin and Electro that lame in the comic books? Yeah I know Doom has been hated 3x in 3 movies but I've never rolled my eyes at him like with The Lizard.

Coming from someone who prefers DC, I find it impressive Marvel has managed to maintain a certain level of quality after 12 movies. Most franchises fizzle out after 2 or even 1 entry. Ontop of having television shows based around the MCU also being hits thus far. As a Meta franchise, the MCU is nothing to scoff at, and the hype truly is real.

 

[First Avenger]

I always laugh when people compare the MCU to freaking Transformers movies.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

I always laugh when people compare the MCU to freaking Transformers movies.

It always seem to be the go-to defense whenever box office gross is brought up, as if only terrible movies can make lots of money.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Ooh, bad choice of argument. Every single Marvel Cinematic Universe film was positively reviewed by a majority of critics. Nice try, though...

Which is why I stated I am tired of Marvel hype. The hype of these movies being some form of new Dark Knight and there is never anything wrong with them is what I have a problem with. Thor movies especially are the worst Marvel has to offer.
This thread is a perfect example of the Marvel hype... You can't say anything questioning the movies without people getting defensive, throwing around numbers to try and silence you. "Rotten tomatoes loves Marvel, Marvel has made billions of dollars...everyone loves Marvel and if you don't if you dare question them then you are wrong...end of story."

But I'm not derailing this thread anymore than I already have.
Doom sucked.... End of story.

 

[C. Lee]

Some people are tired of the MARVEL hype.

Some people are tired of the ANTI MARVEL hype.

The wheels on the bus go round and round....round and round.......

 

[Eddie Dean]

Doom shows up in an episode of Grimm:

That's not the vampire from Salem's Lot?

 

[metaphysician]

It always seem to be the go-to defense whenever box office gross is brought up, as if only terrible movies can make lots of money.

By that logic, I guess The Dark Knight is fairly bad. After all, it made more money than most of the Transformers movies.

*ahem*

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Which is why I stated I am tired of Marvel hype. The hype of these movies being some form of new Dark Knight and there is never anything wrong with them is what I have a problem with. Thor movies especially are the worst Marvel has to offer.
This thread is a perfect example of the Marvel hype... You can't say anything questioning the movies without people getting defensive, throwing around numbers to try and silence you. "Rotten tomatoes loves Marvel, Marvel has made billions of dollars...everyone loves Marvel and if you don't if you dare question them then you are wrong...end of story."

But I'm not derailing this thread anymore than I already have.
Doom sucked.... End of story.

No one claimed that Marvel's perfect; people just disagree they're as bad some people say they are. When other studios are producing films with 9 % critical scores and "C" Cinemascore ratings, Marvel's conception of "wrong" seems tame in comparison.

Uh, contrary to what you may think, no one's mandated to accept your position. People can disagree and present facts and evidence to support their position. That doesn't mean they're being "defensive", nor are you being "silenced".