I think this deserves its own thread...Josh Trank denounces Fantastic Four - Part 1

[Dark Raven]

But this is one occasion where his *****ery comes in handy against Trank.

I can't wait for a few months down the line when Teller can speak more freely about this film and can talk about how he hated working with Trank. Then he'll really let loose and not hold back against him but speak his mind.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

A Youtube channel which has covered this movie extensively just released a new video, in which they point out that just a few days before Trank distanced himself from the movie, he said he was proud of it in a private email.

Nice backpedalling there,Trank.

Midnight's Edge makes great videos.

 

[Mjölnir]

That's all well and good but the BTS behind the FF suggest otherwise considering the real motive for making this flick. If you have no idea what to do with a property you end up with this mess. This film should be a lesson to all the studios. And I remember one of the people over at Fox saying they have faith in this franchise and will be using them in the future or something like that. We all know that ain't happening no more.



Bad cbms like FFINO hurt the genre. They should never be supported. You really have to understand why people were against this. Despite not being faithful to the source material, Fox failed to even reliever a good film nonetheless. Seriously, do we really deserve a CBM like FFINO in this decade?

I have no positive feelings towards FF whatsoever so I'm not defending it. People seem to read too much into posts that aren't the worst possible statement about FF and Fox. I'm just pointing out that studios aren't the same thing as the fans that take part of the fanboy wars.

It doesn't matter that the movie ended up terrible, Fox still tried to make money and just failed. They would never, ever willingly lose $50M+ on a project just to keep a non-profitable property out of the hands of someone else. That's a good thing since it now makes it much more likely that Fox will stop doing FF movies.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Have the actors come out in response to this films release? I don't believe they have said anything which I must say I find admirable, especially seeing as how their director just threw them and their work under the bus.

 

[Mjölnir]

Have the actors come out in response to this films release? I don't believe they have said anything which I must say I find admirable, especially seeing as how their director just threw them and their work under the bus.

It's in their best interest to distance themselves as much as possible.

 

[Dark Raven]

They're not going to say anything now like Trank while the movie is still playing as that would be unprofessional. Maybe in a few months time. Trank, of course, has no professionalism whatsoever.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

That's definitely not true. This isn't just a bunch of unprofessional fanboys, this is a company that's all about making money. Losing that kind of money is going to get people fired and it will take a lot to convince the board to allow someone to ever take a shot at the FF again. The only reason Fox wants to keep the rights to something is if they think they can make money off it.

Marvel making money isn't hurting Fox. Quite the contrary, when superhero movies get popular and make a lot of money they make it more likely that people will go out and see more superhero movies, so that's positive for everyone involved. That's why a DC or Marvel fanboy might want to see the other fail but the companies certainly don't share that view.

I think you'd be surprised. I've been directly involved in a situation where a company refused to sell something that wasn't just not making them money, but actually losing them money, because another company would be able to make a profit on it. (And that had nothing to do with comics or fanboys of any stripe.)

As for losing money and people getting fired, Fox knew the former was going to happen months and months ago and if anyone prominent was going to go down, I suspect it already would have happened. FF isn't some surprise flop, it's a long-term rolling disaster (as extensively documented on this very board for the past year) that any sane company would have pulled the plug on long before it got to theaters. But that may have lost them the FF rights and keeping them was clearly (to me, at least) job one.

 

[SSJ4_Haruhi]

Yeah I was checking their Twitters casually last week and none of them had tweeted anything.

 

[Mjölnir]

I think you'd be surprised. I've been directly involved in a situation where a company refused to sell something that wasn't just not making them money, but actually losing them money, because another company would be able to make a profit on it. (And that had nothing to do with comics or fanboys of any stripe.)

As for losing money and people getting fired, Fox knew the former was going to happen months and months ago and if anyone prominent was going to go down, I suspect it already would have happened. FF isn't some surprise flop, it's a long-term rolling disaster (as extensively documented on this very board for the past year) that any sane company would have pulled the plug on long before it got to theaters. But that may have lost them the FF rights and keeping them was clearly (to me, at least) job one.

I guess it can depend on the context but since this is one where successful competition actually helps create interest for your product, rather than stealing customers from you, I'd still say that it would never happen. And 50-60M is not a small price by any means and definitely not something Fox is glad to throw away. All the people I've heard that have some industry connections call this a disaster for Fox.

Of course they knew that it would be bad as they basically hid the movie from us until it got released, but just canning it would have been a mistake. They wouldn't know it was bad until they had shot the movie and saw what they had and by then you've spent so much money that you need to release it to bring back what you can. The movie has still made over 100M over the first two weekends, so that's tenths of millions to the company that they wouldn't have gotten if they didn't release it. This movie has already made them more money than they are likely to have spent on advertising, so releasing it was the correct move in mitigating their losses.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

Have the actors come out in response to this films release? I don't believe they have said anything which I must say I find admirable, especially seeing as how their director just threw them and their work under the bus.

Yeah I was checking their Twitters casually last week and none of them had tweeted anything.

Nothing direct, but Miles Teller did tweet something following the NY Jets incident where their QB Geno Smith got his jaw broken:

https://twitter.com/Miles_Teller/status/631162041731022849

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

It's simple. Marvel is on top of the world right now. They turned Ant-Man into a relatively successful movie. If you put Fantastic Four back into their hands and they make it a huge viable franchise again, that would be embarrassing and devastating to 20th Century Fox.

Fox is a business. They can't run on spite or embarrassment. They need to make a profit. Period. They can't worry about what another studio may or may not do. They need to take care of their own $#*! first.

The FF may have been a potentially lucrative vehicle for them once upon a time. This is no longer the case. They dropped the ball. They screwed the pooch. They blew it. It's over. It's done. Give it up already.

If they seriously think they're still sitting on some kind of billion dollar property they are blithering idiots. It's no longer even a billion dollar property for Marvel. The brand is officially damaged goods.

You have to know when to cut your losses. If Fox has a lick of sense they will stop throwing good money after bad. They need to focus on the areas where they are most successful (i.e. the X-Men, Planet of the Apes, Avatar, etc.) and stop pissing off the fans because that ill will is going to start bleeding into their other projects.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

I guess it can depend on the context but since this is one where successful competition actually helps create interest for your product, rather than stealing customers from you, I'd still say that it would never happen. And 50-60M is not a small price by any means and definitely not something Fox is glad to throw away. All the people I've heard that have some industry connections call this a disaster for Fox.

Of course they knew that it would be bad as they basically hid the movie from us until it got released, but just canning it would have been a mistake. They wouldn't know it was bad until they had shot the movie and saw what they had and by then you've spent so much money that you need to release it to bring back what you can. The movie has still made over 100M over the first two weekends, so that's tenths of millions to the company that they wouldn't have gotten if they didn't release it. This movie has already made them more money than they are likely to have spent on advertising, so releasing it was the correct move in mitigating their losses.

Oh, I agree with your connections: it's a total disaster. But I don't think that leaves Fox much of a fig leaf other than "well, at least we still have the rights," which IMHO will make them all the more unwilling to part with them, at least any time soon.

I also agree that once Trank had shot the movie and delivered his result to the studio, they were pretty much stuck. But when I read and listen to Hollywood types talk about this movie, one of the common questions is, how the heck did it get that far in the first place? The modern studio system, they say, is set up precisely to avoid these kind of atomic bombs. And when I look at all the behind-the-scenes stories of the chaos on the set chronicled here, I can only think that the system did in fact work -- it was throwing up red flags like they were going out of style-- but that in this case all the warnings were deliberately ignored. That makes me conclude that the studio's biggest concern was the rights. They were willing to ignore their own safeguards and risk epic failure rather than run the risk of shutting down, starting over and perhaps missing the deadline that would prevent the rights from reverting.

 

[SSJ4_Haruhi]

Nothing direct, but Miles Teller did tweet something following the NY Jets incident where their QB Geno Smith got his jaw broken:

https://twitter.com/Miles_Teller/status/631162041731022849

Oh wow. Looks like he is listening to the reviews, or could have been considering the first weekend box office figures.

 

[Val_Zod]

It's simple. Marvel is on top of the world right now. They turned Ant-Man into a relatively successful movie. If you put Fantastic Four back into their hands and they make it a huge viable franchise again, that would be embarrassing and devastating to 20th Century Fox.

Not as devastating than losing money over another under-performing Fantastic Four film. There comes a point Fox need to swallow their pride, and cut their losses. They can no longer squeeze money from this thing. The only ones at this point who can make the Fantastic Four a lucrative venture is Marvel proper/Disney, mainly because they'd have total control over all media facets of the four, and can actually sit on the franchise for decades if they wanted to. Fox does not have those luxuries.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Fantastic Four is The Monkey's Paw of 20th Century Fox.

 

[Mjölnir]

Oh, I agree with your connections: it's a total disaster. But I don't think that leaves Fox much of a fig leaf other than "well, at least we still have the rights," which IMHO will make them all the more unwilling to part with them, at least any time soon.

I also agree that once Trank had shot the movie and delivered his result to the studio, they were pretty much stuck. But when I read and listen to Hollywood types talk about this movie, one of the common questions is, how the heck did it get that far in the first place? The modern studio system, they say, is set up precisely to avoid these kind of atomic bombs. And when I look at all the behind-the-scenes stories of the chaos on the set chronicled here, I can only think that the system did in fact work -- it was throwing up red flags like they were going out of style-- but that in this case all the warnings were deliberately ignored. That makes me conclude that the studio's biggest concern was the rights. They were willing to ignore their own safeguards and risk epic failure rather than run the risk of shutting down, starting over and perhaps missing the deadline that would prevent the rights from reverting.

I don't think Fox will actively get rid of the rights but it does seem pretty unlikely that they will make another FF movie at this point, which would mean that they eventually lose the rights automatically, like they did with Daredevil, for example. Maybe they would be active if they try to get something from Marvel, but the Marvel guys have little reason to do anything other than wait.

The production seems to have been a mess, although from what I've heard recently from people that know some that were involved on the project it's mainly blame towards the studio, while early rumors talked a bit about Trank being a big problem. It's tough to know what to believe and what to dismiss. All we know for sure is that things went really bad.

 

[TheVileOne]

Fox is a business. They can't run on spite or embarrassment. They need to make a profit. Period. They can't worry about what another studio may or may not do. They need to take care of their own $#*! first.

It's Hollywood. People do that all the time.

The FF may have been a potentially lucrative vehicle for them once upon a time. This is no longer the case. They dropped the ball. They screwed the pooch. They blew it. It's over. It's done. Give it up already.

If they seriously think they're still sitting on some kind of billion dollar property they are blithering idiots. It's no longer even a billion dollar property for Marvel. The brand is officially damaged goods.

You have to know when to cut your losses. If Fox has a lick of sense they will stop throwing good money after bad. They need to focus on the areas where they are most successful (i.e. the X-Men, Planet of the Apes, Avatar, etc.) and stop pissing off the fans because that ill will is going to start bleeding into their other projects.

It might happen some day, I am just giving you the reality of the situation as it pertains to before this movie came out.

 

[Quasar]

Oh, I agree with your connections: it's a total disaster. But I don't think that leaves Fox much of a fig leaf other than "well, at least we still have the rights," which IMHO will make them all the more unwilling to part with them, at least any time soon.

I also agree that once Trank had shot the movie and delivered his result to the studio, they were pretty much stuck. But when I read and listen to Hollywood types talk about this movie, one of the common questions is, how the heck did it get that far in the first place? The modern studio system, they say, is set up precisely to avoid these kind of atomic bombs. And when I look at all the behind-the-scenes stories of the chaos on the set chronicled here, I can only think that the system did in fact work -- it was throwing up red flags like they were going out of style-- but that in this case all the warnings were deliberately ignored. That makes me conclude that the studio's biggest concern was the rights. They were willing to ignore their own safeguards and risk epic failure rather than run the risk of shutting down, starting over and perhaps missing the deadline that would prevent the rights from reverting.

That sounds just like it was around here with the FFINO supporters. Every red flag they'd deny and debate and argue like they were clawing their way out of Planet Zero.

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe Fox sat around drinking a flask of alcohol and thought to themselves that they don't want Marvel taking the glory, just like the trained NASA astronauts, and decided that they should seek it themselves, even if it means a total disaster of a mission resulting in various body horror incidents such as Ben Grimm losing his thing, Trank and Teller nearly coming to blows, Kate Mara getting a bad wig etc.

 

[Dasher10]

Not as devastating than losing money over another under-performing Fantastic Four film. There comes a point Fox need to swallow their pride, and cut their losses. They can no longer squeeze money from this thing. The only ones at this point who can make the Fantastic Four a lucrative venture is Marvel proper/Disney, mainly because they'd have total control over all media facets of the four, and can actually sit on the franchise for decades if they wanted to. Fox does not have those luxuries.

I'll agree to that. Marvel making Daredevil into a hit wasn't anywhere near as embarrassing for Fox as a film that lost a ton of money for the studio.

They ruined Jeremy Slater's script just for a quick rights grab and that killed any hope for a sequel or crossover. FF is now a toxic asset where Fox either need to further slash the budget for the sequel or just give the rights up.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

It's in their best interest to distance themselves as much as possible.

From the movie or from Trank? Either way it doesn't seem they have verbally distanced themselves...they've just kept quiet. I think it says something that they have when Josh couldn't. I wonder if they ever will speak, but overall I hope their silence helps recover their careers.

Miles' tweet was funny and good humored and mocked himself more than anyone else, good for him. The rumor about Tranks email patting himself on the back doesnt fit with everyone else actions to the lead up to the release. I heard Fox didn't even have a premiere for it. So how exactly couLD Josh have been on a completely different world thinking this was a good film.

 

[Lencho01]

Here's what the mysterious deleted Fantastic Four scene was supposed to be...

 

[TheVileOne]

Here's what the mysterious deleted Fantastic Four scene was supposed to be...

Does anyone really miss what that scene describes, other than it would've given the film some more splosions?

 

[Lencho01]

Does anyone really miss what that scene describes, other than it would've given the film some more splosions?

Well, it looks like it would've helped the film be less boring. Plus, it was always shown in advertising.

And there's this...

What Was FANTASTIC FOUR Like Before Simon Kinberg?

 

[Farren]

Well, it looks like it would've helped the film be less boring. Plus, it was always shown in advertising.

And there's this...

What Was FANTASTIC FOUR Like Before Simon Kinberg?

Dang, it sounds WAAAAAY better.

(Has it ever leaked? Or is this just something Faraci somehow got access to...Because I'd love to read it.)