The Dark Knight Rises I will answer this question one day. But not today.

[DarkKnight FTW]

What about the two cops Joker killed and the cops that were killed in the explosion at the police precinct?

Well, they told Gordon that the Joker escaped the precinct with Lau so its obvious that Joker killed them and not Dent. Gordon is only talking about the people Dent killed, not Joker. Everybody knows Joker is killing people, nobody knew about Dent.

 

[COMPO]

well Dent killed Maroni by killing his driver, so he spared Maroni and let fate do what it wanted with Maroni, he could have done the same with Ramirez I mean did we see her after she got knocked out. Anything cud av appened

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

This never bothered me. The second cop to which Gordon referred: the cop that the Joker killed in Dent's room at Gotham General. No one knew that the Joker had been with Dent, and the corpse's incineration in the hospital explosion left only one culprit: Dent, the one patient who escaped and quickly murdered four other people.

This is the answer.

At least, it's what I always assumed. Didn't even give it a second thought.

 

[aandfrugby25]

This never bothered me. The second cop to which Gordon referred: the cop that the Joker killed in Dent's room at Gotham General. No one knew that the Joker had been with Dent, and the corpse's incineration in the hospital explosion left only one culprit: Dent, the one patient who escaped and quickly murdered four other people.

The problem i have with this is i dont think there is any way they have removed the rubble from the hospital yet to find the bodies underneath.
I do however find it likely that Gordon believed that Ramerez was dead.

This question always fascinated me because i use to think that this person we dont know about that died could have a loved one that wants revenge on batman. I just feel if it was a simple answer Nolan would have answered it by now. My feeling is that since he didnt answer it, it may have future implications on the plot line.

 

[aandfrugby25]

The only problem I have with this is that it's such a simple answer that I don't see why Nolan wouldn't have just said, in the blu-ray live event, "Remember to count the cop in Dent's hospital room."

I mean, Nolan took the time to answer a lot of simple and sometimes stupid questions. One person even asked something like "Why does Joker use a knife?" and Nolan answered it! So why is it that when he was asked about our 5 dead 2 of them cops debacle he gave such a cryptic answer?

BINGO
I feel if it was an easy answer Nolan would have answered the question. Also the more i think about it the more i am certain that there is no way they would have discovered the body of the cop in the hospital yet. Not under all that rubble and not with all that was going on in the city to keep them busy.

 

[Mister H.]

^ Dammnit! I was just going to say this. The cop in the hospital would have been blown to smithereens, so I'm not so sure he was the one referenced. Then again, if he was missing after the explosion, maybe they rightly assumed he was a goner.

 

[Travesty]

^ Dammnit! I was just going to say this. The cop in the hospital would have been blown to smithereens, so I'm not so sure he was the one referenced. Then again, if he was missing after the explosion, maybe they rightly assumed he was a goner.

But killed by Harvey alone? Doubtful....

 

[Anjow1060]

Hospital Cop 1 - "Davis"
Hospital Cop 2 - Black Cop
Maroni's Driver
Wuertz
Dent

Remember - Gordon is talking about covering up the deaths SURROUNDING Harvey.

So Harvey is included.

- Jow

 

[Anjow1060]

they cleared the hospital. The only way those cops were stuck inside is if Dent did something to them while they tried to get him out - thats Gordon's POV.

Dent did threaten him remember?

- Jow

 

[Brother Jack]

I always wonder if Gordon counted Dent as one of the five.

That's what I thought, because Batman did technically kill Harvey and if nothing else would have to have accept responsibility for that. And you can say that Harvey was in a way also a victim of Two-Face, as he basically destroyed himself. The other four would have been Maroni and his driver, Wuertz, and either Ramirez or the cop in Gotham General.

 

[Travesty]

That's what I thought, because Batman did technically kill Harvey and if nothing else would have to have accept responsibility for that. And you can say that Harvey was in a way also a victim of Two-Face, as he basically destroyed himself. The other four would have been Maroni and his driver, Wuertz, and either Ramirez or the cop in Gotham General.

But he's not a cop, he's a DA.

 

[aandfrugby25]

they cleared the hospital. The only way those cops were stuck inside is if Dent did something to them while they tried to get him out - thats Gordon's POV.

Dent did threaten him remember?

- Jow

It seems like a pretty big leap to take considering they knew the joker was there at the time. He was the one who hijacked the bus after all. Plus someone had to free dent and give him a gun. To me it just seems like those would be pinned on joker.

Also i dont feel like missing cops would come into this conversation. Any missing cops would be pinned on the joker.

But i keep wanting to point out if it is in fact a simple answer... why didnt Nolan answer the question? He answered plenty of other very simple questions that night.

 

[Anjow1060]

He did.

You have to look at the public eye view that Gordon had to look at it through.

2 cop families are gonna ask what happened. And there will be records that they were gaurding Dent.

A dead guy - who may have had a family and was working for the mob (they got to me early on, my mother's hospital bills - kinda stuff) who was a driver for maroni... who was almost killed in the car accident resulting from a bullet to the head of his Driver. Publically - Gordan would have to admit that Dent was missing in this time frame.

Wuertz picked up Dent and gave him to Maroni.

And then Dent himself.

All of this could be tied back to blaming Batman. All Gordon is missing is a motive for Batman to be going after Dent.... which is weird seeing as Dent stood up for Batman and it was made clear during that impromptu press conference after the truck flip.

- Jow

PS: My "he did" was in reference to whether Gordon counted Dent. Not if Nolan answered the Q.

 

[Brother Jack]

But he's not a cop, he's a DA.

The two cops would have been Wuertz and either Ramirez or the cop from the hospital.

 

[aandfrugby25]

But he's not a cop, he's a DA.

Yes

Really it boils down to not how did he get five kills, but who was the second cop

 

[Anjow1060]

There's 2 cops in the hospital. The one who runs in and the cop he was radioing - "Davis"

- Jow

 

[Travesty]

The two cops would have been Wuertz and either Ramirez or the cop from the hospital.

But it still doesn't make sense. First of all Dent didn't kill the cop, Joker did. Second, why on earth would Gordon blame Dent for that, when The Joker is the one who blew up the hospital to begin with? It all boils down to Joker.

In all honesty, I think it was a mess up in the script, and Nolan knows he's wrong, and doesn't want to admit to it. That's my answer.

 

[Brother Jack]

There's 2 cops in the hospital. The one who runs in and the cop he was radioing - "Davis"

- Jow

Wuertz isn't considered a cop in this scenario?

I'm also assuming that Maroni is dead.

 

[aandfrugby25]

The two cops would have been Wuertz and either Ramirez or the cop from the hospital.

I dont really have an issue with Ramirez being the second cop. But still why didnt he answer the question. And even more importantly he specifically says he will answer this in the future. Seems to me like thats a tell that this could be important.

Everyone keeps latching on to which cop it was my original point was why didnt he answer the question, and what could it mean? I know if we wrack our brains we can come up with a second cop but if it was this simple, i feel Nolan would have told us the answer or said he didnt remember. He specifically told us it would be revealed in the future but without giving us details. To me that screams plot point.

Or Nolan could have just messed up and didnt want to admit it lol.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'll get back to you when I see Dark Knight Rises.

 

[Anjow1060]

Now that I think of it - it was Wurtz day off. He was prolly called in to help and refused.

So maybe Gordon didn't know about him?

- Jow

 

[Banana-Hotdog]

Come to think of it, blaming Batman for all of these murders is a pretty tough sell. It leaves a lot of questions for the average person who reads about it in the papers.

Why would Batman kill a corrupt cop and gangsters, but let The Joker live? What reason did he have to kill Harvey Dent? And if we follow the logic that the 2 cops in the Hospital count as our "5 dead" (which comes out to 3 cops, btw, because we HAVE to count Wurtz) then people have to believe that Batman came out in broad daylight, entered the hospital while it was being evacuated and murdered those two cops so he could take Dent to a burned down building and kill him there.... Doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[aandfrugby25]

Come to think of it, blaming Batman for all of these murders is a pretty tough sell. It leaves a lot of questions for the average person who reads about it in the papers.

Why would Batman kill a corrupt cop and gangsters, but let The Joker live? What reason did he have to kill Harvey Dent? And if we follow the logic that the 2 cops in the Hospital count as our "5 dead" (which comes out to 3 cops, btw, because we HAVE to count Wurtz) then people have to believe that Batman came out in broad daylight, entered the hospital while it was being evacuated and murdered those two cops so he could take Dent to a burned down building and kill him there.... Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Those cops were told to evacuate the hospital in a timely fashion they ignored the rules. So batman killed them as the building was falling down around them.... makes sense to me lol.

 

[Anjow1060]

Those cops were told to evacuate the hospital in a timely fashion they ignored the rules. So batman killed them as the building was falling down around them.... makes sense to me lol.

This.

LMAO.

- Jow

 

[BrazilianBatFan]

I feel bad about it but no explanation convinced me. I do think it was a mess up, but I also think it's possible Nolan is going to explain in TDKR. I know many people believe Nolan really wasn't thinking about coming back. I never bought it. I really think he was planning on doing a trilogy, he only never said it as means of bargain with the studio. It's very intelligent and very Nolan (discreet, secretive) to do so. He must be very envied by other directors because of this. As his brother wrote in an article "Chris has a plan" (always) and also saw Bale say the same thing. That's two people who are close to the man saying it. And that's why I think there may be an explanation.