The Dark Knight Rises I will answer this question one day. But not today.

[Gianakin_]

Joker knows.

He won't talk.

 

[redfirebird2008]

He won't talk.

Oh he'll talk, just not about that. t:

 

[Gianakin_]

Oh he'll talk, just not about that. t:

Aw, you were supposed to say "He'll talk to me". I was going for a BB reference.t:

 

[redfirebird2008]

Aw, you were supposed to say "He'll talk to me". I was going for a BB reference.t:

haha. t: Sorry I screwed it up.

 

[Gianakin_]

Heh. But what did you mean by "he'll talk"? You expect him to make an appearance of sorts?

 

[redfirebird2008]

Heh. But what did you mean by "he'll talk"? You expect him to make an appearance of sorts?

I just meant he's too much of a social person to stay quiet. He'll chit chat about random stuff. I doubt he'll make an appearance in TDKR.

 

[Gianakin_]

Oh, ok, gotcha.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I wonder if the Chechen is one of the five.

It could be... I remember Lau was there too. But everyone knows that the Joker kidnapped Lau to begin with. Think these two would rank up?

Aw, you were supposed to say "He'll talk to me". I was going for a BB reference.t:

"If I get him to you, can you get him to talk?" :bat:

 

[childeroland]

Lau was the only person the mob could use to store their money. Chechen convinced the mob to give the Joker a chance, and he and Maroni seemed to have a camaraderie.

 

[Bats]

I always thought the 5 were:

1. Officer Dent
2. Officer Harvey
3. Judge Surillo
4. Comissioner Loeb
5. Brian Douglas

Those were the ones specifically targeted by the Joker to get Batman to take off his mask. I think those fit better than Wuertz & Ramirez since their outcomes were never relayed to anyone onscreen. But yeah, regardless if it is the above five or not, the dialog in the film doesn't fit with either.

 

[Agent of Chaos]

I always thought the 5 were:

1. Officer Dent
2. Officer Harvey
3. Judge Surillo
4. Comissioner Loeb
5. Brian Douglas

Those were the ones specifically targeted by the Joker to get Batman to take off his mask. I think those fit better than Wuertz & Ramirez since their outcomes were never relayed to anyone onscreen. But yeah, regardless if it is the above five or not, the dialog in the film doesn't fit with either.

My friend you are utterly confused.

 

[Gianakin_]

"If I get him to you, can you get him to talk?" :bat:

I can get him to sing.

Extra points if you can follow this up with something relevant to the Batmovies, but not the next line from that scene we're quoting from TDKt:

 

[batman11]

I can get him to sing.

[sings] "I'm Mister White Christmas...I'm Mister Snow!" [/sings]

 

[Gianakin_]

Bravo! *applauds*

 

[batman11]

While I appreciate the applause, this man really does deserve all the credit:

Spoiler

 

[Bats]

My friend you are utterly confused.

Well I really appreciate you enlightening me with that descriptive counter explanation.

 

[Agent of Chaos]

Well I really appreciate you enlightening me with that descriptive counter explanation.

sigh*

The "five dead, two of them cops" line was in reference to the murders committed by solely Harvey Dent/Two-Face, NOT The Joker. Why do you think Batman took the blame? ("They [citizens of Gotham] must never know what he [Harvey Dent] did.")

The reason this thread exists is because people are questioning the five people Harvey Dent murdered.

With that said, here's the list:

1.) Wuertz (Cop)
2.) Sal Maroni's Passenger (and if you argue that he only knocked the passenger unconscious, we can assume Dent murdered the bartender that served Wuertz (off-screen)).
3.) Sal Maroni's driver
4.) Sal Maroni himself
5.) The cop that the Joker killed in Dent's room at Gotham General. No one knew that the Joker had been with Dent, and the corpse's incineration in the hospital explosion left only one culprit: Dent. (And if that's too vague for you, we can assume Gordon was actually referring to Detective Ramirez. Again, Ramirez was NOT killed. The GCPD, however, have reason to believe that she was murdered since she was nowhere to be found. Dent specifically targeted Wuertz and Ramirez during the early rooftop scene, so Gordon could have assumed Dent got Ramirez after he took care of Wuertz.)

Good?

 

[Bats]

Don't "sigh" me. Please. You can't prove me wrong the same and vice versa. So until Nolan explains it, you'll have your opinion and I'll have mine.

I've heard these theories many times before and they all contain people assuming deaths offscreen or "maybe someone called Gordon offscreen and told him stuff". So I won't base my thoughts of what if's.

I took Batman taking the blame as him being responsible for the Joker's killings (done to get Batman to stop) in order that he becomes targeted by them instead of being seen as working with them. So that they're not susceptible for corruption ever again.

Bueno?

 

[Agent of Chaos]

Don't "sigh" me. Please. You can't prove me wrong the same and vice versa. So until Nolan explains it, you'll have your opinion and I'll have mine.

I've heard these theories many times before and they all contain people assuming deaths offscreen or "maybe someone called Gordon offscreen and told him stuff". So I won't base my thoughts of what if's.

I took Batman taking the blame as him being responsible for the Joker's killings (done to get Batman to stop) in order that he becomes targeted by them instead of being seen as working with them. So that they're not susceptible for corruption ever again.

Bueno?

Si, es buenisimo Bats! Lo encuentro fantastico que todavia no entiendes el final despues de quatro anos. BRAVO.

 

[cryptic name]

Don't "sigh" me. Please. You can't prove me wrong the same and vice versa. So until Nolan explains it, you'll have your opinion and I'll have mine.

I've heard these theories many times before and they all contain people assuming deaths offscreen or "maybe someone called Gordon offscreen and told him stuff". So I won't base my thoughts of what if's.

I took Batman taking the blame as him being responsible for the Joker's killings (done to get Batman to stop) in order that he becomes targeted by them instead of being seen as working with them. So that they're not susceptible for corruption ever again.

Bueno?

this is not what's said in the scene suggests

 

[Brother Jack]

There's nothing to cover up in regards to the five people Joker killed. Everyone knows that he did it, in an attempt to draw Batman out. Joker even announced on TV that he was going to do it. Harvey's crimes on the other hand were basically all in secret, as Gordon had no idea where he was.

 

[aandfrugby25]

I love how everyone keeps trying to create a simple answer for the question my thing is if there was a simple answer why didnt Nolan answer the question. BTW there is no way its the cop in the hospital you are telling me they dug through all the rubble of the hospital then did forensics on the cops body while they were busy with the joker running around town. That makes no sense at all, it would take days to weeks to find his body. And without finding it they would just assume the joker did it they knew he was there because he hijacked the bus. I dont know how after all this people could still consider the hospital cop.

But its a moot point anyway cause if it was this simple Nolan would have answered the question.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I can get him to sing.

Extra points if you can follow this up with something relevant to the Batmovies, but not the next line from that scene we're quoting from TDKt:

[sings] "I'm Mister White Christmas...I'm Mister Snow!" [/sings]

HATS OFF my good man

I love how everyone keeps trying to create a simple answer for the question my thing is if there was a simple answer why didnt Nolan answer the question. BTW there is no way its the cop in the hospital you are telling me they dug through all the rubble of the hospital then did forensics on the cops body while they were busy with the joker running around town. That makes no sense at all, it would take days to weeks to find his body. And without finding it they would just assume the joker did it they knew he was there because he hijacked the bus. I dont know how after all this people could still consider the hospital cop.

But its a moot point anyway cause if it was this simple Nolan would have answered the question.

How did that old saying go? Often from deep complexities deep simplicities emerge? Besides... a criminal is not complicated. We just need to figger out what he was after (Dent).

 

[iamcitizen]

1.) Wuertz (Cop)
2.) Sal Maroni's Passenger [...].
3.) Sal Maroni's driver
4.) Sal Maroni himself
5.) [...] Detective Ramirez. Again, Ramirez was NOT killed. The GCPD, however, have reason to believe that she was murdered since she was nowhere to be found. Dent specifically targeted Wuertz and Ramirez during the early rooftop scene, so Gordon could have assumed Dent got Ramirez after he took care of Wuertz.)

The more I think about it, the more I think that this is correct. Gordon knew that Wuertz was responsible for Dent getting burned, and that Wuertz was working for Maroni, and since Wuertz and Maroni were both murdered in public places in broad daylight, we can assume that their bodies were quickly discovered. So when Gordon realizes that Dent has gone insane, it becomes pretty obvious that Dent was responsible for their deaths. Plus, Gordon knew that Ramirez was dirty (Dent told him so on the rooftop) and that she was M.I.A., so it makes sense for him to think that she was the one that picked up Rachel (which she was) and that Dent had killed her (which he actually hadn't).

 

[aandfrugby25]

The more I think about it, the more I think that this is correct. Gordon knew that Wuertz was responsible for Dent getting burned, and that Wuertz was working for Maroni, and since Wuertz and Maroni were both murdered in public places in broad daylight, we can assume that their bodies were quickly discovered. So when Gordon realizes that Dent has gone insane, it becomes pretty obvious that Dent was responsible for their deaths. Plus, Gordon knew that Ramirez was dirty (Dent told him so on the rooftop) and that she was M.I.A., so it makes sense for him to think that she was the one that picked up Rachel (which she was) and that Dent had killed her (which he actually hadn't).

Thats all good and fine but why didnt Nolan answer the question then... My point is if it was a simple answer he would have answered the question as oppose to saying "i will answer this question on a future date". BTW he answered every other question that night except this one.