If Satan changed Hell into a blissful paradise...

E. Bison said:
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Touchy, touchy now aren't we?
Not at all. That was an homage to you.
 
Wilhelm-Scream said:
God. It says very clearly that God created Hell as a place of punishment for the Devil and his angels.
Then once those rebel angels were cast out of Heaven wouldn't they be rendered powerless?

Meaning they couldn't start trouble on Earth. Why would God give them domain over humanity?
 
E. Bison said:
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God created Satan but he didn't mean for him to rebel nor to make mankind suffer. Satan used to be a good angel once. This is confirmed when Jesus said, "that one was a manslayer for he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him." Also, the Lake of Fire you speak of in Revelations is not a literal place. It is the second death after those resurrected rebel again. You have to be aware why God allowed suffering to understand his nature and what is next to come for us.


I love it how things get metaphorical when it's convenient "the Lake of Fire you speak of in Revelations is not a literal place. It is the second death after those resurrected rebel again"
:)
 
E. Bison said:
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God created Satan but he didn't mean for him to rebel nor to make mankind suffer. Satan used to be a good angel once. This is confirmed when Jesus said, "that one was a manslayer for he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him." Also, the Lake of Fire you speak of in Revelations is not a literal place. It is the second death after those resurrected rebel again. You have to be aware why God allowed suffering to understand his nature and what is next to come for us.
This doesn't explain why Satan has any power at all.
 
nor why in earlier texts he is called "the adversary"
 
blind_fury said:
I think Satan would do that for a full week until he realized he was being God's pawn.

There is nothing to say Satan is necessarily intelligent. He is often depicted as clever, but wisdom and awareness, not necessarily. He thought he could win against someone that is omnipotent. Also, he is rather spiteful and filled with malice.

Also, God wants everyone to be good and go to Heaven. He doesn't want anybody going to hell. Making people come isn't really being God's pawn.
 
Leto Atrides said:
Assuming the whole thing is true here.

God wants everyone to be in heaven. He is pained to see people go to hell. So Satan wants it to happen as often as possible. Plus Satan's something of a sadist. He wants to tortue others.
But isn't he serving God by torturing sinners. If sinners were treated better in Hell than Heaven, Heaven would become completely useless.
 
blind_fury said:
Meaning they couldn't start trouble on Earth. Why would God give them domain over humanity?
Zackly.
Only an psycho-ass**** would have the power to stop a marauding, tempting, evil spirit but wait a few thousand years to do so.
There would be no Satan unless God wanted him to exist, therefore God is complicit in every single one of Satan's crimes except his initial rebellion, though, seeing as how God is omniscient, he's actually responsible for that one too.
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blind_fury said:
But isn't he serving God by torturing sinners. If sinners were treated better in Hell than Heaven, Heaven would become completely useless.

Even without demons torturing people, it is inherently a terrible, painful place to be. That's why it is torture for him. And he can't change that. He's the lord of Hell in the sense that all the denizens defer to him, not because he has an inherent right to be the ruler, and has power over it.
 
Mr Sparkle said:
I love it how things get metaphorical when it's convenient "the Lake of Fire you speak of in Revelations is not a literal place. It is the second death after those resurrected rebel again"
:)
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Well it's true that it is NOT a literal place because it was said so here:

Revelations 1:1 "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John.

Rev. 20:14"And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."

Now if you notice in the second verse DEATH was thrown into hell so it CANNOT be a literal place because death is not a person. It means that death will be non-existent anymore forever and so will any person thrown in there.
 
Wilhelm-Scream said:
God is complicit in every single one of Satan's crimes except his initial rebellion, though, seeing as how God is omniscient, he's actually responsible for that one too.

why am I laughing?:(
 
Wilhelm said:
Zackly.
Only an psycho-ass**** would have the power to stop a marauding, tempting, evil spirit but wait a few thousand years to do so.
There would be no Satan unless God wanted him to exist, therefore God is complicit in every single one of Satan's crimes except his initial rebellion, though, seeing as how God is omniscient, he's actually responsible for that one too.

Some would say that Satan exists so that there is a choice to sin or not, that God is not forcing people to be good. So that "good people" have had the option of turning away from God, but didn't.
 
blind_fury said:
This doesn't explain why Satan has any power at all.
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What kind of power do you mean? Literal energy and strenght or leadership and political?
 
E. Bison said:
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Well it's true that it is NOT a literal place because it was said so here:

Revelations 1:1 "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John.

Rev. 20:14"And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire."

Now if you notice in the second verse DEATH was thrown into hell so it CANNOT be a literal place because death is not a person. It means that death will be non-existent anymore forever and so will any person thrown in there.

wait what? Jesus and God are the same person! why is God giving Jesus visions?:confused:
 
Mr Sparkle said:
wait what? Jesus and God are the same person! why is God giving Jesus visions?:confused:
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Ummm....because they ARE NOT the same person and Jesus needs help from God to do things. Yes, Jesus is limited in power because he's an angel to. Yeah, if you notice the context that scripture it is made clear almost everything that takes place in Revelations is given in signs or symbols. Some other Bible translations say "symbols" instead which is acceptable.
 
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, isn't Jesus not God while he's on Earth? I'm not sure how well they line up with scripture, but I've seen many things that imply that upon ascending to Heaven Jesus became one with God AGAIN, seeming to indicate he wasn't while on Earth.
 
E. Bison said:
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Ummm....because they ARE NOT the same person and Jesus needs help from God to do things. Yes, Jesus is limited in power because he's an angel to. Yeah, if you notice the context that scripture it is made clear almost everything that takes place in Revelations is given in signs or symbols. Some other Bible translations say "symbols" instead which is acceptable.

wait...no. Jesus is the SON OF GOD. true, but he is GOD INCARNATE. why does he need help from god to do stuff?
meh forget it.....
 
Leto Atrides said:
There is nothing to say Satan is necessarily intelligent. He is often depicted as clever, but wisdom and awareness, not necessarily. He thought he could win against someone that is omnipotent. Also, he is rather spiteful and filled with malice.

Also, God wants everyone to be good and go to Heaven. He doesn't want anybody going to hell. Making people come isn't really being God's pawn.
Satan is punishing sinners. Isn't this what God wants? Did He not create Hell?
 
Religion is an invaluable tool for those in charge of governing men.

Discussing and following a religion is for poor people though.
 
Leto Atrides said:
Some would say that Satan exists so that there is a choice to sin or not, that God is not forcing people to be good. So that "good people" have had the option of turning away from God, but didn't.
That's a cruel game to play. Let's see if this guy takes the bait so I can throw him in Hell for all eternity.

Al Pacino (John Milton) in the Devil's Advocate:

Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, ****in' ass off! He's a tight-ass! He's a SADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that? NEVER!!

Freedom, baby... is never having to say you're sorry.
 
E. Bison said:
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What kind of power do you mean? Literal energy and strenght or leadership and political?
Why does God give Satan any power? Is He powerless to stop Satan?
 
Outsiderzedge said:
Religion is an invaluable tool for those in charge of governing men.

Discussing and following a religion is for poor people though.
God doesn't exist?

PROVE IT!
 
blind_fury said:
Satan is punishing sinners. Isn't this what God wants? Did He not create Hell?
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Well? No, because that would put God in league with Satan and God has made it clear that Satan is his enemy. Plus you would have to conclude that only BAD PEOPLE to hell. Letz see what the Bible says:

Job 14:13"O that in She´ol[hell] you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!"

Acts 2:25-27"For David says respecting him, ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken. 26 On this account my heart became cheerful and my tongue rejoiced greatly. Moreover, even my flesh will reside in hope; 27 because you will not leave my soul in Ha´des[hell], neither will you allow your loyal one to see corruption. 28 You have made life’s ways known to me, you will fill me with good cheer with your face."

Good people go to hell as well. Job wanted to be hidden in hell and Jesus went to hell when he died. So good people go to hell as well.
 

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