If you think about it logically, God can't exist.

[Spider-X]

^I never said anywhere in this thread that I necessarily believe in God, so your point is moot . . . . however, I agree that this argument is a stalemate . . . .

And if God was proven to exist, how does that knowledge eliminate his existence?

what i said wasn't in response to you...i was just making a point in general.....

 

[DV8]

^like I said, the point is moot, because if there is a God, we'll never know of him as mortals . . . so in a sense, I suppose your point is validated . . . but it's not YOUR point, it's a point that someone else concocted, and in which you agree with . . . . and if there is a God, a point which he wanted you to believe, thus recylcing the fact that we'll never know as mortals the truth about God . . . .

 

[DV8]

what i said wasn't in response to you...i was just making a point in general.....

heh . . . I know, you posted too quick for me

 

[Spider-X]

^like I said, the point is moot, because if there is a God, we'll never know of him as mortals . . . so in a sense, I suppose your point is validated . . . but it's not YOUR point, it's a point that someone else concocted, and in which you agree with . . . . and if there is a God, a point which he wanted you to believe, thus recylcing the fact that we'll never know as mortals the truth about God . . . .

...i was just making a point...you're hurting my head with your philosophical gargon...you're looking way too far into my post.

i personally find threads like this to be annoying...because you're right, it is a stalemate...i'm just posting in here 'cause i'm an ass like that.

 

[Spider-X]

heh . . . I know, you posted too quick for me

lol...ok...you can forget my last post then...

 

[wolfsfang]

You believe

I don't

why can't it be that simple. Belief in God is fine as long as you don't go preaching and trying to convert me. I simply gave reasons why I personally don't believe and have no desire to convert you into an atheist

After all didn't God (and I will paraphrase a bit here) say that we humans

"Can choose whether or not to believe" in him.

Because I choose not to believe I cannot be punished for this, as he already said that not believing was okay to. So when I die I should still be allowed in heaven, cuz if I'm not he is being a hypcrite.

Personally I think atheism is better and if you bare with me I will try to explin why.

Using what I said about god not being able to punish us for not believing in him as a basis. If I choose not to believe in him, but still live a good and decent life, then die and end up in heaven where he proves that he does exist after all...then that is fine and I will opologise for not believing in him.

On the other hand if all you devout believers spend your entire life following his teachings and worshipping him only to die and find that he does not exist and you are now simply worm food...well which of us has wasted their lives.

Not that I'm saying that your lives are a waste or anything, just trying to put a case forward for atheism

 

[JLBats]

Personally, no, I don't believe in a God, and I'm not sure I even really like the concept. However, threads like this are disrespectful to both sides and don't really even incite decent debate.

 

[Spider-X]

Personally, no, I don't believe in a God, and I'm not sure I even really like the concept. However, threads like this are disrespectful to both sides and don't really even incite decent debate.

...my god can beat up your god....

 

[wolfsfang]

I prefer to have free will.

God says we have free will but then gives us rules to follow (the commandments), thereby contradicting himself. This is impossible as God cannot be wrong, so by making himself wrong there is no God

We can only have true free will if there is no God and we are alone and able to do as we please

 

[JLBats]

I prefer to have free will.

God says we have free will but then gives us rules to follow (the commandments), thereby contradicting himself. This is impossible as God cannot be wrong, so by making himself wrong there is no God

We can only have true free will if there is no God and we are alone and able to do as we please

I've been told by Christians that God has a plan for all of us. I don't see how this goes with free will either.

 

[wolfsfang]

If we were special because we were giving free will and the angels were not (they were slaves) how did Lucifer turn against God? He would not have had the free will to choose to do so.

The only way he could have turned against God is if God commanded him to do so. This means that Lucifer is spending the rest of eternity paying for a crime that he only commited because he was ordered to do so by the person he commited it against.

Oh and if God is so great why did he create evil, famine, disease and everything else nasty. Don't say he didn't and that the Devil did. God created the Devil and in turn is directly responsible for everything the Devil does.

God is just as Evil as he is Good

 

[Sentinel X]

I prefer to have free will.

God says we have free will but then gives us rules to follow (the commandments), thereby contradicting himself. This is impossible as God cannot be wrong, so by making himself wrong there is no God

We can only have true free will if there is no God and we are alone and able to do as we please

Im sorry that didnt make sense whatsoever...everyone has free will. There will always be rules(everywhere) and you chose to follow them or not.



God, I hate James Blunt......just saying, the guy really sucks

 

[War Lord]

That's all very well and good War Lord, but I don't think the human race has learned everything there is to know about physics.

Only when we know the true origins of the Universe and whatever came before it, and the physics that apply, only then can we say if it is a natural event or God.

I just think it's possible that the origins of the Universe and everything that came before it, it's possible that it's all science based, but science that even the most advanced human mind couldn't understand.

All I'm saying is... why does it have to be God?? God... it's a bit of a copout answer really. If indeed something can't come from nothing... God... where's he come from then? And the typical reply to that, I believe we've already seen in this thead. No explanation required! It's a cop out answer.

No we haven't, but the theories that we're aware of in nuclear and physical chemistry has been thoroughly tested and we can say with confidence that what we know is true.

 

[War Lord]

If we were special because we were giving free will and the angels were not (they were slaves) how did Lucifer turn against God? He would not have had the free will to choose to do so.

The only way he could have turned against God is if God commanded him to do so. This means that Lucifer is spending the rest of eternity paying for a crime that he only commited because he was ordered to do so by the person he commited it against.

Oh and if God is so great why did he create evil, famine, disease and everything else nasty. Don't say he didn't and that the Devil did. God created the Devil and in turn is directly responsible for everything the Devil does.

God is just as Evil as he is Good

What leads you to believe that angels do not have free will?
By virtue of the fact that they were able to rebel should be enough to show that they had free will to obey or disobey.

By blaming God for Satan's actions, you're saying that the parent is responsible for the child's actions, which is an unjust concept.

 

[XSpidercideX]

Btw, its never stated in the Bible that without faith God is no more. Where did u guys pull that out of? Its stated that God always is, always was, and always will be.

 

[bluejake01]

Pascal's Wager (also known as Pascal's Gambit) is Blaise Pascal's application of decision theory to the belief in God. It is one of three 'wagers' which appear in his Pensées, a collection of notes for an unfinished treatise on Christian apologetics. Pascal argues that it is always a better "bet" to believe in God, because the expected value to be gained from believing in God is always greater than the expected value resulting from non-belief. Note that this is not an argument for the existence of God, but rather one for the belief in God. Pascal specifically aimed the argument at such persons who were not convinced by traditional arguments for the existence of God. With his wager he sought to demonstrate that believing in God is more advantageous than not believing, and hoped that this would convert those who rejected previous theological arguments. Applications of this argument can be found in other religious philosophies, such as Hinduism, and especially Buddhism (see below). A well known example is the C.S. Lewis quote: "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

 

[bluejake01]

By blaming God for Satan's actions, you're saying that the parent is responsible for the child's actions, which is an unjust concept.

Total BS

A parent is responsible for a child's actions, until they are children no longer. A child may do something that is not a parent's fault...however they are still responsible. Like a manager of a store, they are responsible for that store, and what happens in it. If an employee steals, it may not be their fault, but it is their responsibility.

 

[XSpidercideX]

Total BS

A parent is responsible for a child's actions, until they are children no longer. A child may do something that is not a parent's fault...however they are still responsible. Like a manager of a store, they are responsible for that store, and what happens in it. If an employee steals, it may not be their fault, but it is their responsibility.

Is it the manager's fault if an employee wants to take over his position as manager? Lucifer had free will to follow God or not, but he became so proud that he wanted to be God. God is not to blame for this. How can you judge God? You don't even believe in him. Are you more wise than the one who created the universe?

 

[Danalys]

the logic in this thread disturbs me. logic obviously isn't being taught well enough.

 

[wolfsfang]

You know what...I'm atheist. I don't need to explain why, I just am

 

[InsaneMembrane]

You know what...I'm atheist. I don't need to explain why, I just am

Ok good for you.So why do christian people or other religious people need to explain their faith?

If we left it to comments like that without stupid thread titles like these the hype would be a better for it.

 

[Danalys]

discussion isn't inherently unproductive about matters like this. there certainly can be unproductive discussion about such matters tho.

 

[wolfsfang]

If religion is all about beilief without proof

Then my atheism is disbelief due to no proof giving

 

[Danalys]

could we say belief is trust not based on prior actions. the perception of potential whether that perception is accurate or not.

 

[wolfsfang]

we could.

But I am still an atheist. That is one thing that will NEVER change