I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[SwordOfMorning]

The DCU situation/competition probably is galling and borderline insulting to them, if they care at all. It was pretty clear there was always some appetite at DC even pre-Gunn to have an "in continuity" Batman, it was just originally going to be something more off the beaten path (and not in solo films) via the strange Affleck cameos/Keaton path that was deliberately designed to avoid being anything similar to Battinson (which, for the record, is a way better idea even if they did it super badly than what they are doing) so I doubt it blew their minds that this situation arose. I don't think it's some insane toxic drama filled hellscape BTS between the two camps simply because everything we know about Reeves indicates that if what he wants to do is now off limits he would simply have left by now but I doubt anyone is super happy with it.

It is an absolute ode to the absurdity of the modern media landscape that one new, exciting, successful Batman series is insufficient for the hungry maw of the IP machine.

 

[Invader Joker]

Honestly, yeah it does totally fit Pattinson's oddball personality that he'd probably he thrilled to be in a weirder, more out there take on the mythos.

But then again, Keaton was really keen to do a Batman origin story. Bale was also keen to do a more extreme, more sexual sort of take on the character. At the end of the day, I'm sure Pattinson is still grateful for the opportunity to wear the cape and cowl even if he doesn't get to explore every little thing he'd want to during his tenure.

The whole aspect about not being the only Batman for this era though, that's kind of another story and it's hard to say. I still think it's just not smart business to go that route in general.

I do think that the crucial difference between the Keaton and Bale situation is that they didn't have to co-exist with a take on Batman that was doing half the stuff they wanted to explore themselves, so that must feel extra weird.

And honestly yeah, it is his oddball personality, his sense of humor, and his aforementioned love for the weirder/supernatural aspects of Batman comics that does make me think he'd have also greatly enjoyed being Gunn's Batman. I think he'd have also enjoyed the creative challenge of trying to make sense or calibrate his performance so it fits too on those more fantastical situations with more out there scenarios. Justice League aside, I think as an actor it probably would've been interesting to try to reconcile his "fugue-state"-like, almost posessed take on Batman (his own words) and hyper depressed Bruce Wayne with also the idea that Ra's al Ghul and Talia would see him as the pinnacle of what a man should be lol Figuring out how to play that so it's believable probably would've been fun.

In the end he's most certainly getting a better deal than what Kilmer, Clooney and Affleck got, so that's a lot. In the end I do agree it's an easy thing to get over from, but still, on some level I'm sure he probably wishes he could've had more control over the situation, or at least that things could've gone somewhat differently, and some sort of "what if" nature to it all.

This post will probably be unpopular, but here we go...

When Reeves wrote his first Batman film, it was understandable that he needed a few months to distance himself from the whole Batfleck era, and that the process of building up his entire vision was time-consuming by essence, with all that that implies in terms of experimentation, etc. However, he has also hinted several times in interviews that he did have some difficulties with the writing, and that it was why he used some help for the second and third arcs of The Batman (and depending on your sensibilities, you may or may not say that this was felt in the finished product).

Here, putting aside the strikes (which btw don't stop you from thinking about your script, especially for several months), I think it’s legitimate to, at least, suppose a little "red flag" as regards the development of this sequel. Because despite the universe having been planted and the help of Tomsin as a co-writer from the get go (who btw shared months ago that his involvement was finished), we know from Gunn's own words that no script has yet been submitted. Taking into account the fact that there could still be some back-and-forth on it between the studio and the writers, as is often the case, then yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if things were postponed once again.
I know there's an hypothesis that things remained deliberately quiet until The Penguin hit the screens, but still, something feels a bit off to me.

I hope I won't be caricatured as a drama-queen or whatever, it's all just speculation and, to be honest, my hype for all this has seriously declined (or at least felt deeply asleep), so...
But I'd still like to point out that if it's common for 2-3 years to pass between installments in a film saga, it's often because the directors are doing other things on the side. In Reeves' case, he's full-on into this Batman thing, and by the time his second film comes out (if the dates hold), he'll have spent nearly as much time as Nolan on his own entire Batman trilogy and two more personal films...
Of course, every director has his or her own rhythm, but what I'm saying here is that 8 years is a long time in a career. And I can well imagine that for someone slowly entering their sixties, that might be “enough”, and that they might want to do something else. Simply put: I sometimes wonder if Reeves isn't burning out on this character or spreading himself too thin. I mean, the lengthy writing of the films, the supervision of spin-offs, the overall management of pitches for other projects (is the development of an Arkham Asylum show for the DCU really necessary?).. That's a lot of work and the pay-offs are becoming quite scattered (not necessarely a problem for us, but from a business point-of-view...).

Again, this is pure speculation, I have no doubt that The Batman Part II will happen, it's not even up for debate. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it marked the end of Reeves' run.
And while I don't think WB is putting pressure on him, the DCU is by nature a kind of competition and I simply don't think it's the ideal work environment, in general.

Anyway, just my two cents.

I think it may be a situation where he inadvertently kinda cornered himself in a way tbh. It's clear he has waaaay too many ideas of stuff he to see with Batman and at the same time his ambitions are probably super high, and him already being as slow a writer as he is does not help things. Between him wanting to initially build his own mini-connected universe, to then sending over one of those projects to the DCU, I think Matt's biggest problem is he wants to have his cake and eat it too and is probably having trouble trying to make sense of all of his concepts and ideas into a standard trilogy that also remains completely grounded and strictly separate from any DCU shaenigans while also wanting to make a definitive take on Batman that even surpasses the Nolan trilogy.

And it does kinda concern me that if it's taking him this long to make the second movie, how much will he take on the third one, then? Especially since finales are often the hardest to write. Will he even want to spend as much time as he has to on a third one? I think the third one will happen, but I also think that it'll probably be such a long while to get it to the point this take on Batman might as well feel like it's done for a bit.

The DCU situation/competition probably is galling and borderline insulting to them, if they care at all. It was pretty clear there was always some appetite at DC even pre-Gunn to have an "in continuity" Batman, it was just originally going to be something more off the beaten path (and not in solo films) via the strange Affleck cameos/Keaton path that was deliberately designed to avoid being anything similar to Battinson (which, for the record, is a way better idea even if they did it super badly than what they are doing) so I doubt it blew their minds that this situation arose. I don't think it's some insane toxic drama filled hellscape BTS between the two camps simply because everything we know about Reeves indicates that if what he wants to do is now off limits he would simply have left by now but I doubt anyone is super happy with it.

It is an absolute ode to the absurdity of the modern media landscape that one new, exciting, successful Batman series is insufficient for the hungry maw of the IP machine.

I don't really think Matt cares lmao He pitched the Arkham show for Gunn in the DCU, so like I said, I think for him he sees it as a way to have his cake and eat it too with being able to have this squarely hyper grounded and realistic take on Batman (his words) while also having some sort of hand in bringing to life some of the more fantastical concepts of Batman he's on some level also interested in. Between the two I find it more likely it's Pattinson who has mixed feelings about it, since he doesn't really have a say on things and it's the other take that's gonna be exploring some of his favorite stuff in Batman comics under the guide of a creative he also seemingly really likes.

 

[WayneMB]

This post will probably be unpopular, but here we go...

When Reeves wrote his first Batman film, it was understandable that he needed a few months to distance himself from the whole Batfleck era, and that the process of building up his entire vision was time-consuming by essence, with all that that implies in terms of experimentation, etc. However, he has also hinted several times in interviews that he did have some difficulties with the writing, and that it was why he used some help for the second and third arcs of The Batman (and depending on your sensibilities, you may or may not say that this was felt in the finished product).

Here, putting aside the strikes (which btw don't stop you from thinking about your script, especially for several months), I think it’s legitimate to, at least, suppose a little "red flag" as regards the development of this sequel. Because despite the universe having been planted and the help of Tomsin as a co-writer from the get go (who btw shared months ago that his involvement was finished), we know from Gunn's own words that no script has yet been submitted. Taking into account the fact that there could still be some back-and-forth on it between the studio and the writers, as is often the case, then yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if things were postponed once again.
I know there's an hypothesis that things remained deliberately quiet until The Penguin hit the screens, but still, something feels a bit off to me.

I hope I won't be caricatured as a drama-queen or whatever, it's all just speculation and, to be honest, my hype for all this has seriously declined (or at least felt deeply asleep), so...
But I'd still like to point out that if it's common for 2-3 years to pass between installments in a film saga, it's often because the directors are doing other things on the side. In Reeves' case, he's full-on into this Batman thing, and by the time his second film comes out (if the dates hold), he'll have spent nearly as much time as Nolan on his own entire Batman trilogy and two more personal films...
Of course, every director has his or her own rhythm, but what I'm saying here is that 8 years is a long time in a career. And I can well imagine that for someone slowly entering their sixties, that might be “enough”, and that they might want to do something else. Simply put: I sometimes wonder if Reeves isn't burning out on this character or spreading himself too thin. I mean, the lengthy writing of the films, the supervision of spin-offs, the overall management of pitches for other projects (is the development of an Arkham Asylum show for the DCU really necessary?).. That's a lot of work and the pay-offs are becoming quite scattered (not necessarely a problem for us, but from a business point-of-view...).

Again, this is pure speculation, I have no doubt that The Batman Part II will happen, it's not even up for debate. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it marked the end of Reeves' run.
And while I don't think WB is putting pressure on him, the DCU is by nature a kind of competition and I simply don't think it's the ideal work environment, in general.

Anyway, just my two cents.

I halfway agree. I think Matt is a brilliant filmmaker and he'd be way better off if he could just make more films. If he got someone else as the main writer and just stay giving out ideas and helping write, it'd improve this whole thing. BUT, i still feel this whole gap between movies isn't that big considering the strikes.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeah, obviously Matt is slow but a three and a bit year gap wasn’t that big. It’s four and a half because of the strikes. Hence why I feel like his slowness is overstated, he just works at a steady pace - which is good! Let the man have his own process!

 

[Sawyer]

I just saw an update about Blade and I think this board could use a bit of perspective…

Pattinson’s casting was made official in May of 2019. Mahershala Ali’s casting was announced at SDCC two months later. In that time, we’ve gotten The Batman, have a sequel greenlight and a spinoff series (which Rob might easily appear in) is ready to go. Meanwhile, the Blade fans are… still waiting.

I know delays suck, but our suffering could be worse.

 

[Invader Joker]

Yeah, obviously Matt is slow but a three and a bit year gap wasn’t that big. It’s four and a half because of the strikes. Hence why I feel like his slowness is overstated, he just works at a steady pace - which is good! Let the man have his own process!

I really don't think the strike fully explains the 1 year delay tbh. The writer's strike lasted for only 5 months, so that's an extra 7 months on top of that. And I know the soundstages thing is the cover story they gave but eh. Knowing now how long it actually took Matt to do the script for the first one, I really do think that 70% of it is just Matt being slow. Like at this rate I'm not fully convinced the script would already be done even with no strike.

 

[emielaen]

This thread still active? Let it go guys. It's canceled.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Ave Mariiiiaaaa!

 

[OnLeatherWings]

This post will probably be unpopular, but here we go...

When Reeves wrote his first Batman film, it was understandable that he needed a few months to distance himself from the whole Batfleck era, and that the process of building up his entire vision was time-consuming by essence, with all that that implies in terms of experimentation, etc. However, he has also hinted several times in interviews that he did have some difficulties with the writing, and that it was why he used some help for the second and third arcs of The Batman (and depending on your sensibilities, you may or may not say that this was felt in the finished product).

Here, putting aside the strikes (which btw don't stop you from thinking about your script, especially for several months), I think it’s legitimate to, at least, suppose a little "red flag" as regards the development of this sequel. Because despite the universe having been planted and the help of Tomsin as a co-writer from the get go (who btw shared months ago that his involvement was finished), we know from Gunn's own words that no script has yet been submitted. Taking into account the fact that there could still be some back-and-forth on it between the studio and the writers, as is often the case, then yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if things were postponed once again.
I know there's an hypothesis that things remained deliberately quiet until The Penguin hit the screens, but still, something feels a bit off to me.

I hope I won't be caricatured as a drama-queen or whatever, it's all just speculation and, to be honest, my hype for all this has seriously declined (or at least felt deeply asleep), so...
But I'd still like to point out that if it's common for 2-3 years to pass between installments in a film saga, it's often because the directors are doing other things on the side. In Reeves' case, he's full-on into this Batman thing, and by the time his second film comes out (if the dates hold), he'll have spent nearly as much time as Nolan on his own entire Batman trilogy and two more personal films...
Of course, every director has his or her own rhythm, but what I'm saying here is that 8 years is a long time in a career. And I can well imagine that for someone slowly entering their sixties, that might be “enough”, and that they might want to do something else. Simply put: I sometimes wonder if Reeves isn't burning out on this character or spreading himself too thin. I mean, the lengthy writing of the films, the supervision of spin-offs, the overall management of pitches for other projects (is the development of an Arkham Asylum show for the DCU really necessary?).. That's a lot of work and the pay-offs are becoming quite scattered (not necessarely a problem for us, but from a business point-of-view...).

Again, this is pure speculation, I have no doubt that The Batman Part II will happen, it's not even up for debate. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it marked the end of Reeves' run.
And while I don't think WB is putting pressure on him, the DCU is by nature a kind of competition and I simply don't think it's the ideal work environment, in general.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Hey there,

Just chiming in to say I 100% feel you, on this. My trust has been eroded gradually with WB - and the way this sequel has been 'progressing' has me a little mentally preparing for the worst, just in case...

 

[Boom]

If I had to bet on it right now, I'd say Part II is the last.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I think they are going to go back in time and erase the Batman from existence

 

[TheGDBatman]

I re-watched this movie again and damn, every time I watch it I love it a little more. I desperately hope we get three parts. It all just made me even thirstier for news on Part II.

There's so much meat left on the bone when it comes to this world, and I want to consume as much of it as possible.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I re-watched this movie again and damn, every time I watch it I love it a little more. I desperately hope we get three parts.

I wish I loved The Batman - I like it, though and I'm still hoping we get three films, at least. The vibe, atmosphere, cast, etc. It's all great stuff.

I'm just hoping the writing matches the quality of literally everything else in the film.

 

[solidsnake86]

The sequel is happening, no doubt about that, since it's the only successful relaunch they have. The general audience won't know if this is connected to the DCU or not, nor do they care.

That said, to me, what happens with the series as a whole leaves a lot more question marks. It seemed like wb was all in on a separate batman universe.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that things have changed. When Jason Kilar was in charge, the mandate was streaming. Therefore we heard rumors of tv shows and solo villain movies that would have likely been direct to streaming. Those days are gone with studios focusing on profitability once again (with respect to streaming). So do the rumored villain films happen as theatrical releases? Who knows.

Add in James Gunn being put in charge and his mandate to create a DCU. When he announced a separate batman for his universe, the superhero "fatigue" really hadn't happened yet. Whether fatigue exists is a different question because I think the quality of the product wasn't the greatest in 2023, but, it shows that any property put on film won't be an immediate success.

Time will tell ultimately. I think delaying the batman 2 is actually a good thing. It gives them time to see if Superman and Supergirl are successful. If not, they haven't tied themselves to it with respect to the batman and can easily distance themselves. If Superman is a runaway success, the pressure is on the batman sequel to prove another installment won't have diminishing returns. Once those happen they will refocus and determine what happens going forward.

 

[Invader Joker]

Just remembered this interview where Matt said for a second he thought about turning The Batman into a streaming show but the studio told him no. I wonder if there could still be something there for the future of the franchise beyond Part 2. It's clear he has a lot of ideas, hence him even entertaining the (probably now defunct) idea of a ton of spin-offs, and a TV show would allow him to implement most of them without having to create a whole mini-connected universe.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I'd much rather have had The Batman as a streaming show. I'm so tired of Batman shows...that don't have Batman in them. And the feel of Reeves' film felt more like an HBO-budgeted mega-show than a film, at times. I don't mean that as a slight, either!

Having a high-budget Batman show with Reeves at the helm would've been amazing. It'd mean more Batman! More characters.

Three seasons would've been awesome!

 

[OnLeatherWings]

The sequel is happening, no doubt about that, since it's the only successful relaunch they have. The general audience won't know if this is connected to the DCU or not, nor do they care.

That said, to me, what happens with the series as a whole leaves a lot more question marks. It seemed like wb was all in on a separate batman universe.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that things have changed.

That's the thing - if superhero fatigue is real, then it's absolutely a huge gamble to have two franchises of the same character running in tandem with each other. It's almost - dare I say - redundant?

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I really would be okay if Battinson was the DCU Batman. I just don't care if he's part of a larger universe as long as we still get his solo films.

Personally, if I was in charge...I think I'd merge the DCU with Reeves' Batman. It's the safest decision, in the current market. The Batman was well received and it'd be smart just to capitalize that as a win for the DCU before it even starts with a new Superman.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

That's the thing - if superhero fatigue is real, then it's absolutely a huge gamble to have two franchises of the same character running in tandem with each other. It's almost - dare I say - redundant?

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I really would be okay if Battinson was the DCU Batman. I just don't care if he's part of a larger universe as long as we still get his solo films.

Personally, if I was in charge...I think I'd merge the DCU with Reeves' Batman. It's the safest decision, in the current market. The Batman was well received and it'd be smart just to capitalize that as a win for the DCU before it even starts with a new Superman.

In that scenario we all know Reeves walks which causes a ton of bad publicity and we don't know for sure that Pattinson would be down for it either (I'm inclined to think he'd be open to it, but he's also clearly very Conscious about his career trajectory and who knows if he'd want to sign onto such a Big Unknown as a massive crossover filled contract). It's not a realistic scenario. I am quite sure the first thing Gunn did with Batman was probably ask Reeves if he was open to it and the answer was clearly "No".

 

[OnLeatherWings]

In that scenario we all know Reeves walks which causes a ton of bad publicity.

For us on forums - sure.

But for Joe Public? I don't think they'd care as long as it looked similar and was good. The Apes series is doing quite well without Reeves.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

For us on forums - sure.

But for Joe Public? I don't think they'd care as long as it looked similar and was good. The Apes series is doing quite well without Reeves.

I mean, sure, normally the most boring safe route is what studios should do to appeal to Joe Public. There’s no reason to support them doing this though.

 

[flickchick85]

For us on forums - sure.

But for Joe Public? I don't think they'd care as long as it looked similar and was good. The Apes series is doing quite well without Reeves.

And it’s worse. You’re sounding like you want this to be worse lol.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Also Kingdom is a distant sequel made after Reeves was finished. A dramatic falling out with the director of their second most popular movie in years before there’s any proof the DCU will succeed is a wildly different situation. They are very, VERY fan reaction conscious - look at literally everything Gunn does for proof of this.

Would you also alienate Philips to get Joaquin into a shared universe?

 

[Invader Joker]

In that scenario we all know Reeves walks which causes a ton of bad publicity and we don't know for sure that Pattinson would be down for it either (I'm inclined to think he'd be open to it, but he's also clearly very Conscious about his career trajectory and who knows if he'd want to sign onto such a Big Unknown as a massive crossover filled contract). It's not a realistic scenario. I am quite sure the first thing Gunn did with Batman was probably ask Reeves if he was open to it and the answer was clearly "No".

I'm inclined to think that Gunn and Safran aren't idiots and would probably know how to negotiate a contract that makes sense for Rob to be honest. I also think that with how much Robert loves the character a lot of it would come down to what exactly is the arc they have planned for him and which directions they can go. And I am optimistic enough to think Gunn has at least some cool stuff in mind for Batman, especially with what his favorite comics are, and also with what Robert's own favorite comics are. I think they can actually find a lot of common ground in terms of the stuff they find interesting about the character and the sort of challenges to present to Rob.

It's also kinda funny because I think some of Gunn's sentiments towards this sort of material are vaguely reminiscent of Robert's. This quote in particular: I decided to go for what it would really be like. Treating these people like gods is like, “Whaat?” I have a hard time imagining a guy who’s really serious and wants revenge making a costume for himself and putting black around his eyes so his skin doesn’t show when you look him in the face. He’s got the mask on, and also the eye makeup under it! There’s a silliness to it that I can’t deny. Not because it’s making fun but because it seems to me that the silliness is what is real.

Might as well have come from Robert lol.

Do I think it'll happen? No, that train has probably left the station a long time ago. I think by now even Gunn probably has his own very firm ideas on who he wants for Batman and what he wants the DCU version of Batman to be, and it'd probably be harder to implement them if he has to at least remain consistent with the groundwork established by The Batman.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I really don't think the strike fully explains the 1 year delay tbh. The writer's strike lasted for only 5 months, so that's an extra 7 months on top of that. And I know the soundstages thing is the cover story they gave but eh. Knowing now how long it actually took Matt to do the script for the first one, I really do think that 70% of it is just Matt being slow. Like at this rate I'm not fully convinced the script would already be done even with no strike.

You assume they want to release the movie during spring/summer. Perhaps it's a year's delay because they want to release their Batman films in October.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For us on forums - sure.

But for Joe Public? I don't think they'd care as long as it looked similar and was good. The Apes series is doing quite well without Reeves.

Is it? It reviewed okay, nowhere near Reeves movies. It's also not going to sell anywhere near the amount of tickets Reeves' did. Even War.