I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[marsh]

I don't give a **** about any of that. That's just superficial plot stuff. I find Falcone a super compelling, haunting antagonist and what the movie is saying about old rapey men and what they've done to society is way more interesting than trying to go for a Shocking Swerve.

And, again, the actual twist is Riddler being a Batman groupie. Which, yes, was super effective for me.

You gotta be kidding me. He harped for 3 years straight about how ohhh it’s the first detective Batman film and ohh I’m doing a detective noir movie and the detective element is as laughably weak

That’s like an action film with poor action. A comedy that’s unfunny. A drama that’s not dramatic

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The plot has plenty of issues. Good thing movies aren't just plot delivery machines and are also about theme, tone, character, style, dialogue, music...

 

[marsh]

The plot has plenty of issues. Good thing movies aren't just plot delivery machines and are also about theme, tone, character, style, dialogue, music...

Lol please. What great themes did it usher in? Can you quote me a brilliant line of dialogue from the film?

I’d argue you’re actually being surface level here. A movie is more than just mood and aesthetics bro. That’s literally as surface level as you get.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Okay but instead of just dismissing me behind the empty “every movie has flaws” how about actually addressing the flaw I mentioned

What "flaw" you mentioned? You said you were "let down". By what? Falcone being a villain? Did you not know who Falcone is?

In my reading of the film, Falcone very much plays like a reflection of Bruce's father, the way the Riddler plays as a reflection of Bruce. What they could've been, both ways. Which is why Falcone talks about Mr. Wayne like he was friend. Someone he respected, even as it's apparent Mr. Wayne had no real love for him and wasn't happy with the relationship. We see the same with Riddler and him being a Batman groupie, while ironically hating Bruce.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Lol please. What great themes did it usher in? Can you quote me a brilliant line of dialogue from the film?

I’d argue you’re actually being surface level here. A movie is more than just mood and aesthetics bro. That’s literally as surface level as you get.

It's not the deepest movie ever, sure, it's a superhero movie, but the way its actually about superhero stories in a way most CBMs aren't is great. Ultimately I think it's a movie about superheroes as a healing fantasy about self-actualization and doing good in the world with your pain vs the violent power fantasy of wearing a mask to hurt people in order to make yourself feel better, feel important.

Lol, the movies incredibly quotable. Even something as simple as Riddler's pathetic little "HEY GUYS" on his hilarious livestream is amazing.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah just surface level stuff like… the plot. The script. The mystery in a mystery movie.

The film reveals in the literal opening scene who the villain of the piece is.

It's a film about the why, not the who.

 

[marsh]

What "flaw" you mentioned? You said you were "let down". By what? Falcone being a villain? Did you not know who Falcone is?

In my reading of the film, Falcone very much plays like a reflection of Bruce's father, the way the Riddler plays as a reflection of Bruce. What they could've been, both ways. Which is why Falcone talks about Mr. Wayne like he was friend. Someone he respected, even as it's apparent Mr. Wayne had no real love for him and wasn't happy with the relationship. We see the same with Riddler and him being a Batman groupie, while ironically hating Bruce.

That’s not… what I said dude…

 

[marsh]

The film reveals in the literal opening scene who the villain of the piece is.

It's a film about the why, not the who.

The why was not compelling either. Riddler is killing them because they’re corrupt. The movie makes it painfully obvious, literally verbally says they’re all corrupt long before the riddler shows his ultimate hand

It boils down to “guys get this… the serial killer is killing bad guys because… they’re bad…” not riveting for 3 whole hours

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I dunno what to tell you, buddy. We just have completely antithetical attitudes towards movies.

Inside the Hype!, there are two wolves...

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The why was not compelling either. Riddler is killing them because they’re corrupt. The movie makes it painfully obvious, literally verbally says they’re all corrupt long before the riddler shows his ultimate hand

It boils down to “guys get this… the serial killer is killing bad guys because… they’re bad…” not riveting for 3 whole hours

I mean, actually the twist is that the serial killer is killing bad guys because he's trying to emulate and impress the protagonist of the movie and is actually just a pathetic loser Batman stan lol

 

[marsh]

It's not the deepest movie ever, sure, it's a superhero movie, but the way its actually about superhero stories in a way most CBMs aren't is great. Ultimately I think it's a movie about superheroes as a healing fantasy about self-actualization and doing good in the world with your pain vs the violent power fantasy of wearing a mask to hurt people in order to make yourself feel better, feel important.

Lol, the movies incredibly quotable. Even something as simple as Riddler's pathetic little "HEY GUYS" on his hilarious livestream is amazing.

Sure. I can agree with that. Id still argue the delivery left a lot to be desired

And yeah funny moment. I laughed in the theater. But I still think the movie is largely bereft of good dialogue

 

[marsh]

I mean, actually the twist is that the serial killer is killing bad guys because he's trying to emulate and impress the protagonist of the movie and is actually just a pathetic loser Batman stan lol

Well… now that’s a part of it but it makes it clear it was because they were bad guys first and foremost. That came first. Batman inspired him to take the action but the motive was just weak uncompelling “hey the corrupt guys are corrupt”. Like wow Matt reeves. 3 years for that huh?

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Why was it shocking that The Riddler was obsessed with Batman? Hasn't he always been? That is why he leaves riddles for him to solve in just about every Batman story in which he has ever appeared in.

 

[Snow Queen]

Why was it shocking that The Riddler was obsessed with Batman? Hasn't he always been? That is why he leaves riddles for him to solve in just about every Batman story in which he has ever appeared in.

It's less "the Riddler is obsessed with Batman" and more "he's a Batman fanboy who is specifically emulating him in a way that displays the short-sighted nature of Bruce's "I'm vengeance" act."

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Why was it shocking that The Riddler was obsessed with Batman? Hasn't he always been? That is why he leaves riddles for him to solve in just about every Batman story in which he has ever appeared in.

I’m not saying it was shocking, I’m saying it was dramatically effective. One of the best surprises of The Batman for me was that Riddler was, well, Riddler and not a Dexter Edgelord Tragic Antivillain like some of the trailers seemed to imply.

 

[Luke995]

Reeves' work timing debate is the new realism's debate.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The why was not compelling either. Riddler is killing them because they’re corrupt. The movie makes it painfully obvious, literally verbally says they’re all corrupt long before the riddler shows his ultimate hand

It boils down to “guys get this… the serial killer is killing bad guys because… they’re bad…” not riveting for 3 whole hours

Okay, I thought I explained it, but I'll try one more time.

Falcone is a reflection of Thomas. The revelation of Thomas' relationship with Falcone, makes Bruce reconsider his father. I personally find the delivery of this in the film clumsy, because it ended up turning Alfred into an exposition machine, but it is there.

What I think is absolutely brilliant is Bruce realizing Riddler is a reflection of himself. In such a way, that it makes him reconsider himself. What the Batman is. Bruce was using his persona, violence to cope and in the process he inspired a maniac (this is the film's "twist" by the way).

How the film makes Bruce have to deal with who he is and what he will have to be going forward to not beat the city into the darkness, but lead it into the light if he truly loves and cares for Gotham. It isn't some great new idea, but it is one that is executed in a very satisfying manner. Especially in our current climate where people just want Batman to punch people.

 

[marsh]

Okay, I thought I explained it, but I'll try one more time.

Falcone is a reflection of Thomas. The revelation of Thomas' relationship with Falcone, makes Bruce reconsider his father. I personally find the delivery of this in the film clumsy, because it ended up turning Alfred into an exposition machine, but it is there.

What I think is absolutely brilliant is Bruce realizing Riddler is a reflection of himself. In such a way, that it makes him reconsider himself. What the Batman is. Bruce was using his persona, violence to cope and in the process he inspired a maniac (this is the film's "twist" by the way).

How the film makes Bruce have to deal with who he is and what he will have to be going forward to not beat the city into the darkness, but lead it into the light if he truly loves and cares for Gotham. It isn't some great new idea, but it is one that is executed in a very satisfying manner. Especially in our current climate where people just want Batman to punch people.

“I thought I explained this but ugh since you’re too dense I’ll try one more goddamn timeeee”

*proceeds to chart over completely new never before mentioned points and thoughts about the film*

My failure was not having telepathy lol

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Reeves' work timing debate is the new realism's debate.

Oh my god you’re right.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

“I thought I explained this but ugh since you’re too dense I’ll try one more goddamn timeeee”

*proceeds to chart over completely new never before mentioned points and thoughts about the film*

My failure was not having telepathy lol

It's the exact same point as my other post. I don't know what to tell you.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well… now that’s a part of it but it makes it clear it was because they were bad guys first and foremost. That came first. Batman inspired him to take the action but the motive was just weak uncompelling “hey the corrupt guys are corrupt”. Like wow Matt reeves. 3 years for that huh?

The Joker wants to battle Batman for the soul of Gotham? Like wow Christopher Nolan. 3 years for that, huh?

 

[marsh]

It's the exact same point as my other post. I don't know what to tell you.

It’s 10000% not unless i completely missed your post juggling you and sword of morning

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Reeves' work timing debate is the new realism's debate.

 

[marsh]

The Joker wants to battle Batman for the soul of Gotham? Like wow Christopher Nolan. 3 years for that, huh?

Well first of all he did a whole ass movie in between called the prestige so it’s more like half that time. And second of all that’s not the point of the film

If you’re about to go down a Nolan vs reeves route in terms of themes and writing I can assure you you’re not going to come out victorious

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It’s 10000% not unless i completely missed your post juggling you and sword of morning

These are the same point. The second is more spelled out, because you apparently needed me to explain every single character beat.

What "flaw" you mentioned? You said you were "let down". By what? Falcone being a villain? Did you not know who Falcone is?

In my reading of the film, Falcone very much plays like a reflection of Bruce's father, the way the Riddler plays as a reflection of Bruce. What they could've been, both ways. Which is why Falcone talks about Mr. Wayne like he was friend. Someone he respected, even as it's apparent Mr. Wayne had no real love for him and wasn't happy with the relationship. We see the same with Riddler and him being a Batman groupie, while ironically hating Bruce.

Okay, I thought I explained it, but I'll try one more time.

Falcone is a reflection of Thomas. The revelation of Thomas' relationship with Falcone, makes Bruce reconsider his father. I personally find the delivery of this in the film clumsy, because it ended up turning Alfred into an exposition machine, but it is there.

What I think is absolutely brilliant is Bruce realizing Riddler is a reflection of himself. In such a way, that it makes him reconsider himself. What the Batman is. Bruce was using his persona, violence to cope and in the process he inspired a maniac (this is the film's "twist" by the way).

How the film makes Bruce have to deal with who he is and what he will have to be going forward to not beat the city into the darkness, but lead it into the light if he truly loves and cares for Gotham. It isn't some great new idea, but it is one that is executed in a very satisfying manner. Especially in our current climate where people just want Batman to punch people.