The Dark Knight Rises Improving Fight Scenes

[RustyCage]

When you say that it reminds me of Mark Hamill's Joker from the animated series when I was a kid. His Joker loved getting a reaction out of Batman. Sometimes it seemed like that was the whole point. I think there was something of that in TDK when Joker says "I wish I could quit you" "you're just too much fun".

Yeah, there were several lines like that in the film, and it delighted me. He even suggests early on that Batman's existence created him or inspired him in some way: 'Y'see, this is how crazy Batman's made Gotham.', as he points the handheld cam at himself and grins, dirtily.

 

[COMPO]

I have to agree with two posters above, I want to see Batman kick I think there was an absence of kicking in TDK which could have been used and also I agree taht the stance used in TDK was off putting I mean I don't really see Batman ever using a a fighting stance against thugs, I mean he's trained most of his life and can probably anticipate an attack i.e. where 'he' will hit him or think of a number of ways to stop it.

 

[Boom]

Strip that of some of the more absurd moments and it's pretty damn close to what I would consider the perfect Batman fighting style.

He even has the right demeanor about him. Calm, tall, steady, and then relentlessly powerful. No wasted movement. He reacts to his opponents with extreme efficiency and it's pretty scary and impressive.

I love how he just slams people into the ground .

 

[RustyCage]

I love how he just slams people into the ground .

Hell yeah.

 

[Boom]

I also loved the limb-breaking, and I even enjoyed the barrage of punches.

Perfect fighting style for Batman.

 

[Lencho01]

What about compared to Greenwood, Conroy, and Bale?

Oh, I meant about how his look at the start of the film is similar to his original suit and then over time, they made it more like the one he wears in The Brave and the Bold. He comments on it to Superman about wanting to scare criminals, but not kids as a justification for the change and having Robin as his sidekick.

The Martian Manhunter book, right? (The bit about the matches and 'what you are' tipped me off.) I really enjoyed the art in what I've read of that - it was a preview, just several pages. Batman's dialogue was also awesome.

Yep.

I would imagine the Batman from that book to sound smokier and darker, like Conroy.

Then again, like I said, I haven't seen the whole feature. I underestimated Greenwood too before I saw the entirety of Under the Red Hood.

I just think Sisto works better for the world created in the comic/film. It's pretty much how I feel for all Batman voice actors. Like they truly were the best for the art style and tone of their respective versions. Except for Gotham Knight. I thought they should've gotten different actors for each short. Conroy really felt like stunt casting to me.

With the docks scene, it was just Falcone. He walked up and saw and promptly panicked and split. 'What the hell are you?!'

Yeah. BB was a pretty fun film compared to TDK.

 

[Boom]

Watched that video again. Damn, it really shines a spotlight on the shortcomings of the the fight scenes in these Batman films.

In that video, the character displays a wide variety of moves and techniques - each executed fluidly and efficiently. You can feel and hear the impact of each blow. And his posture and cool demeanor indicate a man who knows exactly what he's doing in every situation.

In contrast, the fight scenes in Nolan's films look painfully staged, with Batman looking more like a drunken brawler than a master of martial arts.

 

[RustyCage]

Oh, I meant about how his look at the start of the film is similar to his original suit and then over time, they made it more like the one he wears in The Brave and the Bold. He comments on it to Superman about wanting to scare criminals, but not kids as a justification for the change and having Robin as his sidekick.

The look at the suit in that clip seemed loads darker and more intimidating than the TBatB suit to me. I didn't understand why he was talking about not scaring kids in that scene, but I guess the suit was supposed to look kid-friendly there?

Maybe it was the lighting in that particular scene?

Except for Gotham Knight. I thought they should've gotten different actors for each short. Conroy really felt like stunt casting to me.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. He was great in some, but he just felt inappropriate for others. Especially the younger, more bishōnen looking Bruce Wayne depictions.

I'm also a bit worried about his delivery in Arkham City after that 'Who sent you?' line in the Hugo Strange teaser. It just didn't fit right - not his voice, just the delivery. I imagine maybe he was doing the line blind?

Yeah. BB was a pretty fun film compared to TDK.

I'd say each had their moments. Alfred and Fox had some awesomely fun lines.

 

[The Infernal]

Yeah, there were several lines like that in the film, and it delighted me. He even suggests early on that Batman's existence created him or inspired him in some way: 'Y'see, this is how crazy Batman's made Gotham.', as he points the handheld cam at himself and grins, dirtily.

Good memory. Sounds like Jack Nicholson's Joker there both in the creation and the appeal to the public about Batman.

 

[Lencho01]

I did consider it might have to do with it being a period piece, but I just think they could have done better without resorting to any martial arts. It just seemed like Batman didn't know the first thing about fighting.

I'll have to look at the comic again to see how Cooke chose to draw the fight. Now that I think about, I think that was the only moment there was many martial arts similar what you'd think Batman would do. Everything else was simple brawling or sword fighting.

I think it's just mainly when Joker and his thugs crashes the party, been a while since I last saw it. I noticed it in the cinema and I recognised it from the making of documentary from Batman Begins where you get a clearer look at it. It's where he puts his hand up to his head, but unlike a boxing stance they're up beside his his head with his elbows sticking out. This is what I like to call 'Lynx effect' Batman (or Axe effect for Americans).

I think I know what you're talking about now.

[YT]79HJj9PewU8[/YT]

It reminds me of Fresh Prince when Will "fights."

 

[COMPO]

with the fighting I'd like it if they went with the Arkham Asylum fighting style that was sort of Keysi but more quick and vicious and without a fighting stance

 

[RustyCage]

Watched that video again. Damn, it really shines a spotlight on the shortcomings of the the fight scenes in these Batman films.

In that video, the character displays a wide variety of moves and techniques - each executed fluidly and efficiently. You can feel and hear the impact of each blow. And his posture and cool demeanor indicate a man who knows exactly what he's doing in every situation.

Exactly. The variety of moves and techniques results in a sense of knowledge and unpredictability that Nolan's Batman hasn't properly shown since trying a bunch of random styles on Ra's early on in Begins.

Another point of interest in that clip is the camera work. It was kind of sloppy/shaky when it was panning around at first, but it ended up being awesome for capturing the fight. I'll leave whether or not that element was better than TDK's up to you guys, since I'm personally wrestling with it.

 

[Fudgie]

They've already improved the fight scenes by dropping the horrid shaky camera from Batman Begins.

 

[RustyCage]

They've already improved the fight scenes by dropping the horrid shaky camera from Batman Begins.

I felt that was a downgrade, personally. There should be a happy medium, and Batman should be scarily mysterious at least sometimes.

 

[RustyCage]

Good memory. Sounds like Jack Nicholson's Joker there both in the creation and the appeal to the public about Batman.

I didn't think about it that way before. I like the appeal to the public thing, that's very true. The creation bit is more abstract, but technically a valid (and interesting) comparison.

 

[The Infernal]

I think I know what you're talking about now.

[YT]79HJj9PewU8[/YT]

It reminds me of Fresh Prince when Will "fights."

Lol. Haven't seen that in years, but I vaguely remember him trying to fight.

To RustyCage who asked if anyone had any examples of punches, there is one in that clip. It's at the end where he punches Joker, but it is very awkward looking. He bends right over to do it.

 

[The Joker]

Dropping the spazzing camera style from Begins was a blessing. I like to be able to see what's going on in a fight in order to appreciate it.

Crazy logic, I know

 

[RustyCage]

Lol. Haven't seen that in years, but I vaguely remember him trying to fight.

To RustyCage who asked if anyone had any examples of punches, there is one in that clip. It's at the end where he punches Joker, but it is very awkward looking. He bends right over to do it.

I caught him doing a proper punch to a thug in addtion to that, but it was really fast, and the camera is kind of working against seeing it (since the idea is to stay on Batman finishing the guy quickly so he can turn his attention to Joker, a character moment, rather than to film choreography - something people frequently are ignorant of for some reason in this fanbase), so it's easy to miss if you're not focusing on every move.

So he does sneak them in now and again.

Dropping the spazzing camera style from Begins was a blessing. I like to be able to see what's going on in a fight in order to appreciate it.

Crazy logic, I know

Some scenes are more about expressing the nature of a character rather than making sure you can see the choreography clearly (and you can in other scenes) - especially when the nature of the character is mysterious and fast. Film is an art form, usually about expressing things about characters, after all. 'Crazy logic, I know.'

God, are we gonna become rivals?

Since that mysteriousness was established with a scene or two in Begins though, I think it's okay to move on for the most part. But I'd totally love to see thugs getting yanked into the shadows again.

 

[The Joker]

Some scenes are more about expressing the nature of a character rather than making sure you can see the choreography clearly (and you can in other scenes) - especially when the nature of the character is mysterious and fast. 'Crazy logic, I know.'

You can express the nature of the character without makes his fights unwatchable, as pretty much his entire history, in comics, animation, and live action, has shown lol.

God, are we gonna become rivals?

I sincerely hope so I enjoy bantering with you.

 

[RustyCage]

You can express the nature of the character without makes his fights unwatchable, as pretty much his entire history, in comics, animation, and live action, has shown lol.

You can, sure, but I felt Nolan's take on that expression with the docks scene was nothing short of bad*** - I'd even call it definitive in terms of being a character moment. I don't need to see everything in every single fight. There were plenty of other fights to enjoy the choreography in with Begins, so it was okay to be less technical and more psychological there, imo.

That said, Burton did a really good job showing us a lot while keeping the characterization spot on. If they're going to show Batman more clearly, I'd prefer that approach over what we got with Nolan's in TDK (generally speaking). No contest.

I sincerely hope so I enjoy bantering with you.

Maybe we're destined to do this forever.

Kidding aside, we have agreed on other things in the past. And you've been awesome.

 

[Visceral]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSsR8dCUUIQ

 

[Polux]

Now, I haven't watched BB in awhile, so I don't know for sure, but I thought it was Batman who jacked up the train. Ras says something to the effect of "that's why you can't stop me, and that's why you can't stop this train", and then Batman says "who said anything about stopping". Then, Ras looks at the controls, and notices them jacked up.

Am I wrong here? Maybe I need to re-watch it tonight?

I mentioned that scene some time ago when people were talking about Bats not being "smart enough" in BB and I pointed out that Batman tricked Ra´s into making him think that he wanted to stop the train (and all of that "plan" happened in a matter or seconds, maybe just one second, that´s damn smart!), thus Ra´s jacking up the panels, and then pushing Bats away.

Then when Bats say "Who said I wanted to stop it?", Ra´s looks up and realized Bats tricked him, the whole "deception" thing coming along.

Bats knew Ra´s was a formidable oponent so he knew he had to outsmart him instead of relying on his fists.

Polux

 

[RustyCage]

Precisely, Polux.

 

[Lencho01]

The look at the suit in that clip seemed loads darker and more intimidating than the TBatB suit to me. I didn't understand why he was talking about not scaring kids in that scene, but I guess the suit was supposed to look kid-friendly there?

Maybe it was the lighting in that particular scene?

Well, this guy...

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/dcuam/newfrontier/media/screengrabs/42.jpg

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/dcuam/newfrontier/media/screengrabs/Pan17.jpg

is more intimidating than this...

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/dcuam/newfrontier/media/screengrabs/91.jpg

If I read correctly at the time of the film's release, it was a reference to when Batman was a dark character and then there was a crackdown on comics to be lighter a more kid friendly. So, his design was changed.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. He was great in some, but he just felt inappropriate for others. Especially the younger, more bishōnen looking Bruce Wayne depictions.

The only one that really felt right to me was the Deadshot short.

I'm also a bit worried about his delivery in Arkham City after that 'Who sent you?' line in the Hugo Strange teaser. It just didn't fit right - not his voice, just the delivery. I imagine maybe he was doing the line blind?

Yeah, it's possible that it depending on when he recording the line.

I'd say each had their moments. Alfred and Fox had some awesomely fun lines.

It's gotta be the older guys with the lighter moments.

 

[RustyCage]

It's gotta be the older guys with the lighter moments.

They just know how to live.