The Dark Knight Rises Improving Fight Scenes

[The Morningstar]

Yea, what about the guy in the striped top who turns away and oversells being hit at around the 12 second mark?

Why is he turning away? Why not you know, punch Batman?

I mean come on guys, love the film all you want. But I just can't comprehend how people think the fight choreography and stunt work in those scenes even approaches being good.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I know right? This is not THAT hard to follow.

I don't think they were paying attention Carnotaur.

Not at all. What I love about Batman's fight is IT IS practical. It's not flashy. It's what move can you perform in the amount of time someone is coming at you. The closest thing between two points, essentially.

 

[TheBatman072]

TheBatman072,

When Batman enters the scene, the first thing he does is punch The Joker with one fist. Same thing happens again when The Joker's about to kick him a second time. One punch sends him flying.

Both times, Batman was not in momentum. Watch the clip. The very first frame we see Batman, he's just standing there. The second time, when he punches The Joker in the gut, he is again standing still.

Not once did he kick The Joker.

I'm talking about his momentum after the shoe knife and breaking the one clown's arm.

At the beginning, there IS a punch, I misremembered. But there was absolutely enough force to knock Joker back, especially if Joker wasn't expecting it and it caught him off guard.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Wow, so he does kick him after all. That's better, but if you need an analysis of the fight to see that a mook doesn't just fall over of his own volition, there's something wrong there.

And guy with the shotgun. I'm calling it, he'll be the main villain of TDKR, finally having worked out how to use a gun.

 

[The Joker]

I like this video: http://www.flixya.com/video/1386221/The-Dark-Knight-Fight-Scenes

 

[EliteF50]

Okay, the one at :10. When he's got the guy in the white mask by the head, and walks into the other guy, he kicks him. You can hear it.

Haha, okay, let's say he did kick him... what the hell kind of choreography is this? Really? Batman walks goon 1 into goon 2 and shin kicks good 2 at the same time?

Then I see Batman taking one guy, we'll call him white mask, knocking him into the one guy's gun on the forehead and dropping him.

Gun to forehead, eh? Go back and pause the video. He throws white mask into the other thug's forearm.

He goes after the guy with the gun. Punches him down, goes after white mask again, back hands the guy with the gun and knocks him out, and then knocks out white mask when Joker sends the one homeless clown mask guy after Batman right before the shoe knife.

Yeah, there's no problems here.

Yes, there is. The execution. Look at 0:12, Bale clearly looks at the stuntman, giving him some time to turn his head before being hit.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Yea, what about the guy in the striped top who turns away and oversells being hit at around the 12 second mark?

Why is he turning away? Why not you know, punch Batman?

I mean come on guys, love the film all you want. But I just can't comprehend how people think the fight choreography and stunt work in those scenes even approaches being good.

He's not turning away. He's coming to shoot and gets blocked while Batman also punches him in the back sending him down. What are we arguing here? Batman's covering all bases lol

 

[The Morningstar]

Wow, so he does kick him after all. That's better, but if you need an analysis of the fight to see that a mook doesn't just fall over of his own volition, there's something wrong there.

And guy with the shotgun. I'm calling it, he'll be the main villain of TDKR, finally having worked out how to use a gun.

In that HK scene Batman could have been smoked at least twice.

 

[TheBatman072]

Yea, what about the guy in the striped top who turns away and oversells being hit at around the 12 second mark?

Why is he turning away? Why not you know, punch Batman?

I mean come on guys, love the film all you want. But I just can't comprehend how people think the fight choreography and stunt work in those scenes even approaches being good.

Batman threw a guy into the striped shirt guy's gun, which threw off striped shirt guy, and then Batman goes after the striped shirt guy. Hitting him off his feet, then he goes after white mask, THEN he backfists striped shirt, knocking him out, and then knocks out white mask.

These aren't trained fighters. These are homeless people and moronic thugs Joker picked up. Probably on the way there.

Not at all. What I love about Batman's fight is IT IS practical. It's not flashy. It's what move can you perform in the amount of time someone is coming at you. The closest thing between two points, essentially.

Yep, I love it. It's violent and simple. It gets the job done and done quickly. Exactly what Batman should employ.

 

[EliteF50]

Not at all. What I love about Batman's fight is IT IS practical. It's not flashy. It's what move can you perform in the amount of time someone is coming at you. The closest thing between two points, essentially.

Batman isn't supposed to be "practical", he's supposed to be slick, fast, agile and strong. None of which Bale's Batman is. He's a master martial artist, not a high school jock.

Watch this trailer (skip to 1:00) to see how Batman should fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muCtJsy-d9w

 

[Carnotaur3]

Haha, okay, let's say he did kick him... what the hell kind of choreography is this? Really? Batman walks goon 1 into goon 2 and shin kicks good 2 at the same time?

He shoves him into the goon because he's got a gun, blocking his shot, then takes him. That's the thing, Batman has to also analyze how to keep them from shooting the hell out of him in a brightly dim room.

 

[TheBatman072]

Wow, so he does kick him after all. That's better, but if you need an analysis of the fight to see that a mook doesn't just fall over of his own volition, there's something wrong there.

And guy with the shotgun. I'm calling it, he'll be the main villain of TDKR, finally having worked out how to use a gun.

Or maybe you should have been paying more attention, since it's obvious to me a several others that he kicked him in the knee or leg and brings him down.

Probably the knee, since if you shatter a knee or dislocate it, that guy isn't getting up again.

 

[Boom]

I'm talking about his momentum after the shoe knife and breaking the one clown's arm.

At the beginning, there IS a punch, I misremembered. But there was absolutely enough force to knock Joker back, especially if Joker wasn't expecting it and it caught him off guard.

I will concede that I might have exaggerated the second example. All he really did was knock The Joker down. A good hit to the gut will do that, momentum or not.

But I simply cannot agree with the first one. If Batman had run at The Joker first, and delivered a good blow to his chest while in motion, then I would be able to buy it.

But just standing there, and knocking The Joker back several feet with one punch to the chest? A decent kick might do that, but not a quick punch.

You say there's force. I'm just not seeing it. It looks incredibly exaggerated to me.

 

[EliteF50]

He shoves him into the goon because he's got a gun, blocking his shot, then take him.

Sure, go ahead and use that idea, but don't execute it in such a way where it looks like the guy falls from a shin kick.

 

[The Morningstar]

Ok is anyone gonna try and defend that Hong Kong fight scene clips i posted? If someone can counter those points i made about it, i'll buy them a cookie.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I will concede that I might have exaggerated the second example. All he really did was knock The Joker down. A good hit to the gut will do that, momentum or not.

He's saving energy. It's more simple to use less force by using both hands to push him down.

 

[EliteF50]

Ok is anyone gonna try and defend that Hong Kong fight scene clips i posted? If someone can counter those points i made about it, i'll buy them a cookie.

They can try defending the penthouse fight, but there's absolutely no defending that HK fight. Batman should have died at least 3 times.

 

[The Morningstar]

He shoves him into the goon because he's got a gun, blocking his shot, then takes him. That's the thing, Batman has to also analyze how to keep them from shooting the hell out of him in a brightly dim room.

Or maybe you should have been paying more attention, since it's obvious to me a several others that he kicked him in the knee or leg and brings him down.

Probably the knee, since if you shatter a knee or dislocate it, that guy isn't getting up again.

Ok, what about him throwing the goon into the gun, which then goes off.

Ummm... the whole room is packed with civilians, who knows where that bullet could have gone?

 

[TheBatman072]

Batman isn't supposed to be "practical", he's supposed to be slick, fast, agile and strong. None of which Bale's Batman is. He's a master martial artist, not a high school jock.

Watch this trailer (skip to 1:00) to see how Batman should fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muCtJsy-d9w

Haha, that fight looks almost exactly like how Nolan's Batman fights. Lots of elbows and knees and legs.

I even saw Batman kick one guy, with ONE standing kick, clear across the roof!

Man, you guys crack me up.

 

[EliteF50]

He's saving energy. It's more simple to use less force by using both hands to push him down.

He's talking about the very first punch.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Batman isn't supposed to be "practical", he's supposed to be slick, fast, agile and strong.

"Practical" definition: Likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances; feasible.

 

[EliteF50]

Haha, that fight looks almost exactly like how Nolan's Batman fights.

I even saw Batman kick one guy, with ONE standing kick, clear across the roof!

Man, you guys crack me up.

No, my friend. That is a quality fight. That is how Batman should fight. We shouldn't see people waiting to be hit, we shouldn't see Batman shin kick anyone, we shouldn't see him grab someone's face and use him as a ramming object.

Also, that kick had momentum and it makes a helluva lot more sense than Bale's first punch in that penthouse fight.

 

[The Morningstar]

Haha, that fight looks almost exactly like how Nolan's Batman fights. Lots of elbows and knees and legs.

I even saw Batman kick one guy, with ONE standing kick, clear across the roof!

Man, you guys crack me up.

Not at all. His repetoire in that clip is much more varied. Plus, the people he is fighting aren't just standing there or overselling being hit. But they ain't real people so we'll let it slide.

It's almost like you guys are lying to yourselves. You love the film so much you can't recognize these fundamental flaws.

 

[EliteF50]

"Practical" definition: Likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances; feasible.

Execution, execution, execution. I don't know how much more I can stress that.

Fine, have Batman initiate the fight with a blow to Joker, but at least make it a powerful blow if you want Joker to be knocked back several feet.

 

[TheBatman072]

No, my friend. That is a quality fight. That is how Batman should fight. We shouldn't see people waiting to be hit, we shouldn't see Batman shin kick anyone, we shouldn't see him grab someone's face and use him as a ramming object.

Also, that kick had momentum and it makes a helluva lot more sense than Bale's first punch in that penthouse fight.

Not at all. His repetoire in that clip is much more varied. Plus, the people he is fighting aren't just standing there or overselling being hit. But they ain't real people so we'll let it slide.

It's almost like you guys are lying to yourselves. You love the film so much you can't recognize these fundamental flaws.

Haha, whatever you say.