Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Endeavor]

Finally!

I'm happy with the casting. I'm sure he'll do fine.

 

[aNarcHy2day]

Pretty decent casting I guess. Let's see what he does.

 

[gildedmuse]

To call this whitewashing is wrong because whitewashing is when you cast white actors in non-white roles. And now people are getting upset that a white actor is cast as a WHITE character who has always been white in his entire history for over 40 years.

Scarlett Johansson as Motoko Kusanagi is arguably white washing.

Gods of Egypt is arguably white washing because you are casting white and British white actors to play actual Egyptians.

I don't find those situations ambiguous or arguable at all. They are taking characters that are meant to be non-white and making them white in an attempt to appeal to mainstream tastes. I mean that's straight up whitewashing.

As a long time Iron Fist fan I'm thrilled with the casting and the outrage is ridiculous it's all coming from people who've never read an Iron fist comic in there lives.

I truly wonder about this because they are all just voicing general complaints that I feel if they've actually read the comics they would know better and know they are not valid and not true.

People that said Iron Fist needs to be Asian because of martial arts does not know the character of Iron Fist.

*Sigh* I'm an Iron Fist fan. Since the announcement of the Netflix series his has been the one I've been most excited for. He's one of those heroes I'm so close to I'm more likely to just call him Danny rather than Iron Fist as he's become so much more than a masked figure to me. And it's not just some magical obsession that happened when I discovered I could be upset about a race issue or whatever these types of posts are suggesting. Like just about everyone I love the Immortal Iron Fist run in the comics, no change necessary. But at the same time I am able to recognize that the things I love can also be problematic.

First off I find the whole idea of sitting around judging if people are worthy of being considered true, honest to god fans incredibly icky. Just because someone might be a fan of the MCU rather than the 616 doesn't make them lesser. They could be worried about how the MCU is going to present a character who, yes, historically has relied on a whole lot of oriental-ism tropes and it doesn't mean they aren't fans. Even those who do read the comics, they can love something and also see it's faults. Danny was one of my top comic book crushes for a long time because that's the sort of geek I am and yet even while middle school me probably might have possibly sat around writing Danny/OC fanfic I am still able to point to certain story elements in the Iron Fist mythology that are unfortunately racist.

If I decided to only read comics or be fans of things that were completely free of any offending material I would be seriously bored by the absolutely zero things I would have to read. Just because a person is upset by the fact that, given the opportunity to remake Iron Fist with a less white colonization feel and create an Asian American hero that had a high visibility in media and would bring the number of male Asian-American heroes in the MCU up to a staggering "one" Marvel choose not to doesn't say ANYTHING about their worthiness as a fan or even mean they haven't read the comics.

You know, I'm also a huge fan of Peter Pan. Since I was a kid, every few years I go back and read it again just because it's such a beautifully written story. And guess what? It's TOTALLY full of sexist and racist characters. Indeed, I have written essays about this very fact and yet no one has ever bothered to accuse me of not having read Peter Pan. And when there was a big upset about a white actress being cast as Tiger Lilly in Pan I didn't turn on people and accuse them of only having watched the Disney cartoon because I totally get that you can enjoy just one of the many variations of the story and still really love that version, and even if you're only upset because of the racist implications of the casting and not a Peter Pan fan at all than what is the problem? What's wrong with people getting upset by racism? It's one of those things people SHOULD be upset about. No, it isn't a perfect parrellel to this situation but it's close enough.

Was there this much outrage when the Ancient One wasn't Asian?

I understand the Internet can be a crazy place but I'm really confused about this "controversy" it's awful they cast a white guy to play a white character but it would've been great to cast an Asian because martial arts. How is going with the racial stereotype any better. Why not just hope that we get strong Asian characters in the series rather than changing Danny's race just because.

So it's cool if every other martial artist in the cast is Asian, bt havng Danny be Asian would have been too sterotypical? Like I honestly don't get this argument. I mean, I hope we get plenty of strong Asian characters too but now those characters will be limited to the kung fu mentor, the faceless ninjas, the sidekicks. The fact is that Iron Fist was ALWAYS going to have martial arts roles for Asian/Asian-Americans, but just not as the title hero.

Great point. I admit that I was not on the mark with my explanation. Race makes up a large part of Luke's struggle and the person he is coming through each struggle. Conversely then, Danny Rand's race will contribute to his own struggles as we will see when the show comes out in 2017.

See, I feel like the biggest element that Danny's race brings to the story, as oppose to Luke's, is that it makes him visually a fish out of water in Kun Lun. Of course, the whole idea is that even when he comes back to American he is STILL a fish out of water despite what he looks like so I don't see how having an Asian-American would have changed that dynamic that much. The other thing it adds to his story is his dynamic with Luke and Misty, but I - peronally - would rather see that particular aspect sacraficed in order to earse some of the "oooh - asia is so exotic!" element that is unfortunately part of his story. I believe you could still create a great friendship and relationship between the characters with an Asian-American Danny so that change was worth it to me.

You know, I know this probably comes off to a lot of people as some angry rant of a SJW but honestly it's more of a disappointed SJW than anything else. I've always said that I believed they should hold open casting, that while an Asian-American actor would be preferable that as long as they gave every actor a fair chance regardless of race and took the oriental-ism element into consideration. My disappointment comes more from people who refuse to see why it is some folks might be upset. Why the idea that Marvel could have given us a whole two non-white title characters and choose not to might possible hurt some people. Why it is younger people especially might have possible wanted to have an Asian-American hero. Like how is it so hard for people to grasp the idea that that might be important to kids? And telling the under-18 crowd who have exactly ZERO power over what Marvel prints and adapts to screen that they need to "create their own characters" and "just wait to see if Marvel one day adapts one of their minority characters eventually" is the oppisite of helpful. or understanding.

I mean, to me it has elements of those people that could see kids - little kids - who were hispanic/black and got so excited to see a Spider-Man that looked like them and yet could immeditalely turn around and hate on Miles. Only in this case the group that wanted a white Iron Fist won and yet are still being so dissmissive of the other side. There is this huge refusal from some (certainly not all - I would like to believe that most people were actually like me and when it came down to it would have supported an Iron Fist of ANY race) to even understand why people wanted an Asian-American for the role or to examine the original material and see why it might be considered racist. To me that is WAY more upsetting than the actual casting decision, which I'm not bothered by in the least.

 

[Protar]

First off I find the whole idea of sitting around judging if people are worthy of being considered true, honest to god fans incredibly icky. Just because someone might be a fan of the MCU rather than the 616 doesn't make them lesser. They could be worried about how the MCU is going to present a character who, yes, historically has relied on a whole lot of oriental-ism tropes and it doesn't mean they aren't fans.

I agree. I've never read a comic in my life. But I'm very passionate about the MCU. I'm not going to make any judgements on how the comics handle Iron Fist and racist tropes, I'm just concerned with the idea of a TV show that I am looking forward to potentially being racist.

I'm not hating on Finn, I like him. I'm not boycotting the show. I just hope that now that they've gone down this route they go down it sensitively and not play the mighty whitey trope straight.

 

[Web-Head]

Do you guys think Hydra will be involved in this series? Didn't they play a big part in Iron Fist comics?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Im doubting it.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's not impossible. The Hand are showing up in Daredevil season 2 as the traditional, comic version of The Hand.

HYDRA is already established in the film and TV shows. HYDRA did have a role in the early stories for The Immortal Iron Fist by Fraction and Brubaker. They were aligned with Steel Serpent.

I guess it's up to Scott Buck and what he wants to do with the story and Jeph Loeb and the higher-ups.

 

[gildedmuse]

As I remember it, HYDRA's role in those stories could have easily been replaced with [evil society here]. Which doesn't mean they can't be used, just that they're not necessarily strongly associated with Iron Fist. But, hey, I do think that the show will be in need of a generically evil society so who knows? After all, Meachum is going to have to be in bed with some pretty bad people. Generally speaking if you're the kind of CEO willing to kill off your partner plus their wife and kid you're probably not limiting your business contacts to good, honest folks.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

^this is more along the lines of what i was thinking. It's not really like it really mattered if it was hydra or any other evil organization.

 

[Webhead2006]

now that we have danny. I cant wait to see what will be the supporting players for the first season and of course who gets cast in those roles. Then of course cant wait to see once it goes into production and we start getting to see it filming and costumes and what not.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm hoping to see Colleen Wing. Not sure who I would want for her. Elodie Yung could've played her. I wonder if she'll seem too similar to Elektra now.

 

[Webhead2006]

i doubt they wouldnt use a character like that just cause we got elektra.

 

[Web-Head]

Stunt coordinator announced
http://mcuexchange.com/brett-chan-to-serve-as-the-stunt-coordinator-for-marvels-iron-fist/

 

[chamber-music]

Stunt coordinator announced
http://mcuexchange.com/brett-chan-to-serve-as-the-stunt-coordinator-for-marvels-iron-fist/

Cool.

It would be great if they could get Tom Wu from Marco Polo, Shanghai Knights, Batman Begins & Kick Ass 2 as somebody. The guy is a solid actor and great martial artist.

Jing Lusi from Stan Lee's Lucky Man would make a good Colleen Wing. Lusi is a fan of Jessica Jones

 

[Pokkle]

Stunt coordinator announced
http://mcuexchange.com/brett-chan-to-serve-as-the-stunt-coordinator-for-marvels-iron-fist/

Yeah, I want fight like in Marco Polo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb2WaTSIm_c

 

[Webhead2006]

Cool info on stunt cordinator.

 

[The Infernal]

I think Hydra would depend on how much they may wish to coordinate between the TV and movie side of things. So far it doesn't look like they've fully embraced one another. Which is a shame, especially for the Netflix series so far which have both been very successful and have well loved characters people may want to see pop up in the movies or have people from the movies appear on the TV shows.

 

[Dark Raven]

No more Hydra. They've been done to death.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I'd rather they use AIM, so we know what actually happened to it after Iron Man 3. It would also give AIM some longer MCU legs, instead of being a relatively small part of just one movie.

 

[TheVileOne]

Eh, I'm not sure AIM really fits in with the Iron Fist story in this case.

 

[Dark Raven]

No AIM or Hydra. AIM is about science. Iron Fist is about martial arts and mysticism. You wouldn't have Dr Strange fighting AIM or Hydra as well.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

If Danny's company is pharmaceutical or tech-based, AIM would make sense to me. It doesn't need to be the main plot, but it would be a cool side plot with a corporate takeover like the Fraction/Brubaker run.

 

[Dark Raven]

We finally get a martial arts-based Marvel series... so let's have him fight some scientists/ technicians!

 

[Scarecrow_King]

He did it in the first issue of the Brubaker/Fraction run, and people were fine with it then.

 

[FataLethal]

Finally! No more speculations for Danny casting

Colleen is next!