Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[BarryAllen]

People say the Iron Fist betrayed its source material, but let me ask you this, could you have done a faithful Iron Fist on a TV budget? I think Jessica Jones works better on a TV budget then Iron Fist does.

Yes you could've. Go look at the original Iron Fist run. It's pretty much a street level book. It was very much a mixture of martial arts and mysticsm as it was a grimy, gritty New York City. The same with original Luke Cage (everyone always says it was too silly and outdated, but the first couple of issues were set in a grimy Harlem).

This is so disappointing. All I wanted was Marvel to get Luke Cage and Iron Fist right. How hard is that? It seems like they make so dumb creative choices when it comes to picking what elements to keep and what not to, and it seems like SJW pressure has affected both series as well. Cage was pretty much nothing like his comic counterpart (both personality-wise and backstory -wise), and now it seems like the same for Iron Fist.

How hard is it to give him a costume like below? How hard is it to get the action scenes right for a character whose main gimmick is being a martial artist kung fu guy? I don't know why Daredevil can get it right but not these two.

 

[BarryAllen]

Colter said he would not play Cage unless he was written a certain way. Colter didn't want to play him as a guy from the streets.

Then he was the wrong choice to play him. I get he might not want to associate 'black' with 'urban', but they easily could've kept it like the comics and write him in a non-stereotypical way.

I was skeptical that Jessica Jones's showrunner got to pick the Luke Cage actor and define his character in that show before he got his own. I was further skeptical when I saw this interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnrADpDM5As) with him wearing a shirt saying "hardcore metrosexual". I didn't think anything of it, because he's an actor and he would and should be able to play characters different from him. Then after reading this interview after the show came out (http://mcuexchange.com/mike-colter-describes-his-initial-concern-with-playing-luke-cage/), it pretty much validated my concerns:

I was so against it,I revisit the feeling I had, that first initial look at the character, trying to figure out the research and the character, who this is guy this, and I’m like, ‘I don’t want any part of this.’ I couldn’t think of anything that I didn’t want to do more. I didn’t want to do anything physical, a role where it relied on power and all the stuff like that. And also, I didn’t know how the character would be written, I didn’t know what this character was going to be like. It just seemed limiting. I just thought, ‘What could I do with this?’ I hadn’t seen any material yet. The idea of the character made me cringe.”

“Everybody has an idea of how the character is going to be, and I’m like, this is how I’m going to do it and this is it, take it or leave it. I’m not saying that’s what I said, but I felt like if they were to try and push me in a certain way, that I would’ve walked away from it. There was only one way that I thought this character should be portrayed that I wasn’t going to compromise on.

He "cringed" at the very idea of the character and most importanly, didn't want to do anything physical, which makes absolutely NO sense when it's about a superhero you're playing. Why even sign on in the first place? No wonder Luke was nothing like the comics, and no wonder the fight scenes sucked in the show. It was all thanks to him.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Well Luke Cage was MUCH better in JJ than he was in his own show, ultimately the writing and directing is the most important part. There have been times were adaptations change a lot from the source material but if they're well executed it doesn't matter, that clearly wasn't the case with the Luke Cage show and it doesn't seem like it will be the case with Iron Fist either.

 

[chamber-music]

One thing people don't mention in regards to Danny being white in a Asian culture is that Danny had to deal with being a minority and prejudice in K'un Lun. There is a interesting role reversal that people could learn from by seeing a Caucasian person dealing with those issues for a change. It might educate audiences and get them to identity with what minorities deal with.

 

[ImSGirl95]

So, Iron Fist gets 0% on RT? But Supergirl started with 100%? For real? What world do we live in?

 

[BatsDC]

One where Iron Fist sucks.

 

[roach]

How I'd do it:

I'd go a different way. Don't do the 'billionaire son returns and villains took over the company' plot line that we already saw in Batman Begins and season one of Arrow.
Get a fight choreographer that knows the difference between ninjutsu and kung fu. Throw every bit of $ at Woo Ping to do the fighting.

The villain of the series or first half would be The Yellow Claw or a version of it. He run an organization that is under Ms Gao. The Yellow Claw would also be our stand in for Fu Manchu and be the father of Shang Chi, who is the champion of the organization. (Cant use Fu Manchu for rights reasons and cultural sensitivity reasons). Danny Rand returns from Kun Lun to stop Yellow Claw because he also is from Kun Lun and it's their responsibility. Rand comes to NY...takes out several YC spots and fights Chi a few times before making him realize that his father is evil and together they take down the Yellow Claw.

 

[kguillou]

Reviews seem to be dinging Finn Jones for not being convincing enough of a fighter too. Like apparently its very obvious that Jones cant fight. Thats disappointing.

Say what you will about Arrow but Stephen Amell put in serious physical training to seem convincing that this guy is a badass. I remember a lot of the action and parkour in season one especially was actually done by Amell himself and it showed in the action scenes.

 

[Dark Raven]

They should've gotten Stephen Amell for Iron Fist.

 

[Web-Head]

Reviews seem to be dinging Finn Jones for not being convincing enough of a fighter too. Like apparently its very obvious that Jones cant fight. Thats disappointing.

Say what you will about Arrow but Stephen Amell put in serious physical training to seem convincing that this guy is a badass. I remember a lot of the action and parkour in season one especially was actually done by Amell himself and it showed in the action scenes.

They only gave Finn 6 weeks to train. IF should have been in the summer with the Defenders in the fall.

 

[Web-Head]

You know what might've helped making the fighting better in this show? Giving Iron Fist a mask so Finn Jones can more easily be swapped out for a double, like they did with Daredevil...

True, but some reviews said it was painfully obvious it wasn't Finn at times

 

[ImSGirl95]

By the way, the Den Of Geek consensus on RT states:

I kept waiting for Iron Fist to kick it into another gear, and that sixth episode aside, it never quite did.

As in, the six episode kicked it into another gear? As in, the last episode they were allowed to see, kicked it into another gear?

That's a problem with those series I would say. They really should give them guys to watch all 13 episodes. Not less than half of the series. It's like watching a half a movie, and reviewing it.

I'm only saying this due to the fact that imagine episode 7-13 are way better (or even amazing), but those all 10 counted reviews will still be there on RT, as in they are reviews for the whole season. But they're not.

So yeah ...

And no, I'm not saying this to defend Buck, who I can care even less about, but to the fact that it's all spread over the internet that Season 1 of IF is panned by critics. Which is not that true.

 

[chamber-music]

How I'd do it:

I'd go a different way. Don't do the 'billionaire son returns and villains took over the company' plot line that we already saw in Batman Begins and season one of Arrow.
Get a fight choreographer that knows the difference between ninjutsu and kung fu. Throw every bit of $ at Woo Ping to do the fighting.

The villain of the series or first half would be The Yellow Claw or a version of it. He run an organization that is under Ms Gao. The Yellow Claw would also be our stand in for Fu Manchu and be the father of Shang Chi, who is the champion of the organization. (Cant use Fu Manchu for rights reasons and cultural sensitivity reasons). Danny Rand returns from Kun Lun to stop Yellow Claw because he also is from Kun Lun and it's their responsibility. Rand comes to NY...takes out several YC spots and fights Chi a few times before making him realize that his father is evil and together they take down the Yellow Claw.

Marvel have had Fu Manchu going by the name Zheng Zhu for a while now. If Shang Chi's father turns up in live action then he will probably be going by his Zheng Zhu name.

They only gave Finn 6 weeks to train. IF should have been in the summer with the Defenders in the fall.

Marvel are pretty notorious for not planning ahead on certain things. Ruffalo didn't know he had the role of the Hulk/Bruce Banner until a car turned up at his house to take him to the airport to comic con.

Marvel should of cast the Iron Fist role earlier and gave the actor more time to train.

 

[marcvader]

It is curious that a consensus for a tv show is based on half a season. That doesn't seem right.

 

[RockSP]

Marvel have had Fu Manchu going by the name Zheng Zhu for a while now. If Shang Chi's father turns up in live action then he will probably be going by his Zheng Zhu name.

Yeah, I assume they know better than to have an Asian character called Yellow Claw in 2017, lol. The comics wisely dropped that name as well.

 

[GeckoMoria]

There is no way in hell IF is worse than Gotham, Powerless or Supergirl. It's just not. Son i'm not buying the reviews and the score.

 

[ImSGirl95]

It is curious that a consensus for a tv show is based on half a season. That doesn't seem right.

Really, Netflix should just allow them to see all 13 episodes and then make them reviews. They only saw the first 6 episodes.
Even Kevin Tancharoen directed episode 8 of IF, and the guy has directed pretty much all of the best episodes of AoS. For example.

 

[Silvermoon]

Agreed. Next up is the third AOS arc and GOTG2. Considering that there are so many dangling plotlines right now, leaving them hanging is a real fear of mine. Is The Superior Doctor Sun now? What's up with Vijay Nadeer's second terrigenisis? Why plug Dr. Radcliffe into the machine if he's dead? Like, if that stuff doesn't get addressed, then what happens next? And with GOTG2, comedy sequels usually don't fare well so I'm concerned that that'll flop at the box office.

Regarding the bolded, I don't think that's a dangling plot line, at least not the 'why' of why Aida did it (I'll put the rest under spoilers for those that haven't seen/aren't caught up on AOS)

Spoiler

Aida believed that there was a paradox in her programming. She had been given two clear directives. She was programmed to protect the Framework and she was programmed to preserve Radcliffe's life above all others. Radcliffe asks her how this is a contradiction and she responds that the greatest threat to the Framework is Radcliffe himself. That because of his position as her creator as well as the fact that "regret" (to her) appears to be a defining human trait, that he himself has a tendency towards poor self-control, she fears that one day he may regret the creation of the Framework and as such could order her to dismantle it. So her perceived contradiction is that she can't protect the Framework from Radcliffe when she also has the mandate of protecting Radcliffe's life.

Radcliffe tells her that he would never ask her to dismantle the Framework saying that he's saving people with the Framework, that even though their physical bodies might die it doesn't matter because (in his words) "Reality is just perception. They perceive it as real, which makes it real." and he wholeheartedly believes that to be true. That people can remain alive in the Framework regardless of what happens to their bodies because their minds (having been uploaded to the Framework) believe it to be real. To Aida, this presents the solution to her perceived paradox. She forces Radcliffe to be uploaded to the Framework and kills his body so now the only place that he's 'alive' is within the Framework. She can now protect the Framework as well as protect (what remains) of Radcliffe's life (his uploaded mind) at all costs at the same time and doesn't have to worry about him possibly asking her to dismantle it at some point in the future.

This presents the possibility of him showing up as our heroes try to save their friends - but would he help them or hinder them? That is a possible dangling plot that might get touched on when the show returns

Hope that all made sense (sorry if it didn't)

 

[ImSGirl95]

There is no way in hell IF is worse than Gotham, Powerless or Supergirl. It's just not. Son i'm not buying the reviews and the score.

Not only worse than them, I mean, the 0% pretty much says that this is the worst live action comicbook show on RT or something.
It's like we are living in some alternate universe.

But yeah, as I said, this is based only on the first 6 episodes.
The scary thing will be if it really turns out to be an amazing show with the rest 7 episodes, but the negative critic reviews based on the 6 episodes just still be there.

 

[RockSP]

The "less than half the episodes" thing is just funny. I mean 6 episodes is a half hour away from being half of the episodes. Half of the season of a show sucking isn't good. And a show really shouldn't suck for 6 episodes straight (not to say that is definitely the case here since I haven't seen the show, of course) from the pilot on through. There is no incentive to stick around for the remaining episodes.

 

[Dark Raven]

Even if it sucks to begin with, it might improve in the last 15 minutes of episode 13.

 

[Hypestyle]

well, the "good" thing is, there's no "box office" to break or un-break. There's no traditional TV ratings system to say the response is good enough to charge high ad rates or not.

So fans can enjoy this when it's released, binge it or stagger out their watching of it, then if they like it they can post on social media about it and message boards.

Compared to DD, I think that the Iron Fist show should be more into globe-traveling adventure, and less with corporate politics of the Rand Company.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I see a lot of hypocrisy in here. People believe bad reviews for certain things but not for this one show. The Marvel Netflix shows have always had problems, I don't see why it's hard to believe that Iron Fist is the worst of them, especially if the leading man is a dud.

 

[roach]

It is curious that a consensus for a tv show is based on half a season. That doesn't seem right.

To be fair most people give a show 1-3 episodes to grab them before deciding to stay with it or watch something else. I gave OITNB 2 episodes before I checked out

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

My concern with the bad reviews is a good portion of them are focused on Danny Rand's race which is ****ing irrelevant.