Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[Dasher10]

The worst thing you can do with a TV show is bore people. Buck you, Scott.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

My concern with the bad reviews is a good portion of them are focused on Danny Rand's race which is ****ing irrelevant.

Did you miss the parts in those reviews that complained about many other things? I have read many Marvel fans claim that the only problem the critics have with the show is the white savior issue and that's just flat out untrue. It's like when DC fans peddle the falsehood that the only problem people have with the films is that they are too dark. Neither observation is true. You don't have to agree with the critics assessment but don't tell falsehood's because you want to like the show.

 

[Zarex]

The "White Savior" trope is a problem for the show and critics would be neglectful if they didn't raise the issue. Casting an actor of Asian descent would have addressed both the woeful under representation of Asian male actors as Hollywood leads and Marvel superheroes. It was a missed opportunity.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The "White Savior" trope is a problem for the show and critics would be neglectful if they didn't raise the issue. Casting an actor of Asian descent would have addressed both the woeful under representation of Asian male actors as Hollywood leads and Marvel superheroes. It was a missed opportunity.

I agree. I know that most on here don't but that's not going to stop me from agreeing.

It also sounds like a different showrunner should have been given the gig.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The "White Savior" trope is a problem for the show and critics would be neglectful if they didn't raise the issue. Casting an actor of Asian descent would have addressed both the woeful under representation of Asian male actors as Hollywood leads and Marvel superheroes. It was a missed opportunity.

This is true. Not quite sure why Marvel didn't do this, especially since Rand is now the third hero to follow the whole "Rich white guy goes abroad and comes back a vigilante" idea. We've had Batman, Arrow, and now this in mainstream media.

That aside though, I'm even more concerned at the other criticisms, mainly that it's poorly paced and filled with uninteresting characters.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The "White Savior" trope is a problem for the show and critics would be neglectful if they didn't raise the issue. Casting an actor of Asian descent would have addressed both the woeful under representation of Asian male actors as Hollywood leads and Marvel superheroes. It was a missed opportunity.

There is no "White Savior" trope. Applying the concept of martial arts to being Asian is stereotyping. White people can know kung fu. They can learn to fight. Yes better then people from Asia.

There is also the obvious problem that being Asian American does not make you privy to Asian culture. Which in and of itself is a broad spectrum. Being Japanese is not the same a being Chinese. Being Tibetan is not the same as being Korean.

Saying the show is responsible for casting Asian actors because there aren't a lot of roles for them in Hollywood has nothing at all to do with the quality of the show.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Why are you so angry? Marvel cast a white guy in the role. The leads of every single Marvel film has been a white guy. Nobody is phasing white guys out.

I am so sick of hearing that white guys are at disadvantage in Hollywood when that is exact opposite of the truth.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Why are you so angry? Marvel cast a white guy in the role. The leads of every single Marvel film has been a white guy. Nobody is phasing white guys out.

I am so sick of hearing that white guys are at disadvantage in Hollywood when that is exact opposite of the truth.

No one is saying white people are disadvantaged. What I would say though is making Danny Asian solely because he is the kung fu guy is stereotyping and racist, also.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

So are we going to talk about how Iron Fist is getting bad reviews or do bad reviews only count when they aren't directed towards Marvel's products?

This is kinda a pointless convo because Danny Rand is white on the show. The people who wanted that got their wish.

 

[Darepool]

#notmycritics

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The lead isn't Asian and the show is apparently bad. At least the first six episodes are.

 

[BatsDC]

So are we going to talk about how Iron Fist is getting bad reviews or do bad reviews only count when they aren't directed towards Marvel's products?

This is kinda a pointless convo because Danny Rand is white on the show. The people who wanted that got their wish.

That's literally what everyone's been doing in here...

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I don't trust Marvel fans who suddenly don't care about reviews when they constantly use reviews as a bludgeon. Now critics are biased and now critics aren't to be trusted.

 

[Spider-Fan]

As far as the reviews, there is still half a season no one has seen yet. I am not writing it off as awful at this point for that reason. It may be awful, it may have a great 2nd half. We shall see. But regardless, I will judge for myself, as I do with everything. RT and critics do not tell me what to think

 

[Zarex]

There is no "White Savior" trope. Applying the concept of martial arts to being Asian is stereotyping. White people can know kung fu. They can learn to fight. Yes better then people from Asia.

There is also the obvious problem that being Asian American does not make you privy to Asian culture. Which in and of itself is a broad spectrum. Being Japanese is not the same a being Chinese. Being Tibetan is not the same as being Korean.

Saying the show is responsible for casting Asian actors because there aren't a lot of roles for them in Hollywood has nothing at all to do with the quality of the show.

I get that its entirely possible for a wealthy white guy to immerse himself in a foreign culture and become the best ever at a discipline that is traditionally Asian. What I am saying is that it is a bad idea for a TV show and unlike two of the previous Netflix series (Jessica Jones and Luke Cage) it doesn't show us anything we haven't seen before.

With the X-Men characters over at FOX, Marvel doesn't have a lot of options in regards to lead superheroes of Asian descent. Race bending Iron Fist would have been a somewhat risky move, but it looks like it would have been a wise one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So are we going to talk about how Iron Fist is getting bad reviews or do bad reviews only count when they aren't directed towards Marvel's products?

This is kinda a pointless convo because Danny Rand is white on the show. The people who wanted that got their wish.

I was all over the bad reviews on day one. I also believe Vile and the IGN dude that the show has problems.

But when I am reading about Danny Rand, the Living Weapon, is "white mansplaining" to Colleen because he dare explain he knows more about martial arts then her, I am calling BS on a lot of reviews. Suddenly, not so trusting.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I'm going to hold the people in here to there words regarding critics. If I see a 180 when a Marvel property gets good reviews and you believe them then I'm calling hypocrisy.

 

[Zarex]

No one is saying white people are disadvantaged. What I would say though is making Danny Asian solely because he is the kung fu guy is stereotyping and racist, also.

A person of Asian descent becoming an expert an an Asian discipline while in Asia is stereotyping and racist?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I get that its entirely possible for a wealthy white guy to immerse himself in a foreign culture and become the best ever at a discipline that is traditionally Asian. What I am saying is that it is a bad idea for a TV show and unlike two of the previous Netflix series (Jessica Jones and Luke Cage) it doesn't show us anything we haven't seen before.

With the X-Men characters over at FOX, Marvel doesn't have a lot of options in regards to lead superheroes of Asian descent. Race bending Iron Fist would have been a somewhat risky move, but it looks like it would have been a wise one.

Why is it a bad idea for a tv show? Daredevil was "nothing new", and yet most would argue it is the best show they have had so far.

The only reason it would be wise is to appease babies who don't care about the character of Danny Rand. In which case, I say they can take their stereotyping and jump in a lake.

The only reason people want Danny to be Asian is because of racial stereotyping. It is ridiculous.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm going to hold the people in here to there words regarding critics.

You can hold me to mine, it doesn't matter. If it ends up being awful, tha proves nothing to me other than it wasn't good in the end. But, that is up to the viewer to decide. I do not let other people decide what my brain should say. That makes you unable to think for yourself.

Fun fact: many classic films and shows got bad reviews out of the gate. Ask Ridley Scott about the critical darling Blade Runner. That was not the case when it opened.

 

[Silvermoon]

As far as the reviews, there is still half a season no one has seen yet. I am not writing it off as awful at this point for that reason. It may be awful, it may have a great 2nd half. We shall see. But regardless, I will judge for myself, as I do with everything. RT and critics do not tell me what to think

^^ Very much ditto to this ^^ I'm waiting to see it for myself... I never put a whole lot of stock in reviews in general (whether it's for tv *or* movies), if the trailers/spots/set photos look intriguing to me and pique my interest, I'll give it a chance. There are plenty of things that I absolutely adore that critics have loathed - and vice versa. I don't need a critic telling me what my opinion of a show should be.

 

[Spider-Fan]

A person of Asian descent becoming an expert an an Asian discipline while in Asia is stereotyping and racist?

Looking at something and saying what is one thing we know about Asian people, they know king fu. Hey we got this king fu, let's make him Asian! Yes, that is. It is inflatong a stereotype we have about Asian people in fiction.

 

[Zarex]

Why is it a bad idea for a tv show? Daredevil was "nothing new", and yet most would argue it is the best show they have had so far.

The only reason it would be wise is to appease babies who don't care about the character of Danny Rand. In which case, I say they can take their stereotyping and jump in a lake.

The only reason people want Danny to be Asian is because of racial stereotyping. It is ridiculous.

Daredevil was definitely something we haven't seen before - an A list superhero on a premium network. And let's forget for a second the silly babies picking on poor Danny and talk business. Marvel would have gotten positive notices for casting an Asian lead, may have expanded their fan base and increased diversity in an area where they are sorely lacking. It would have been a smart move, but Loeb and company blew it.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I happen to run into the few Marvel fans who one way or the other don't care about what the critics think. Interesting.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A person of Asian descent becoming an expert an an Asian discipline while in Asia is stereotyping and racist?

Was there a campaign to make Thor Asian? How about Cap? How about Daredevil? Spider-Man? Black Widow or Hawkeye?

It is all down to the idea that Asians are good at martial arts.

Also no martial arts belongs to any country exclusively. Boxing does not belong to Britain, Sambo to Russia, Muay Thai to Thailand, etc.