Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[Dark Raven]

Basically if I wanted to watch Suits, I'd watch Suits.

Suits doesn't move at a glacial pace though.

A film that does have lots of board meetings and moves very slowly is Margin Call with Kevin Spacey, Demi Moore, Jeremy Irons, Paul Bettany etc.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I only saw the pilot, but did Suits radically revamp its premise? I thought it was about a cocky dude pretending to be a lawyer and his supergenius let him fake it.

 

[Dark Raven]

I only saw the pilot, but did Suits radically revamp its premise? I thought it was about a cocky dude pretending to be a lawyer and his supergenius let him fake it.

I can't tell you in this thread or it would give away too many spoilers. But it hasn't really revamped its premise though. It still has essentially always been about that.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

It may be that Loeb and company did this one more out of contractual obligation than the fact that they had a great story to tell. There were many rumors floating around pre-production that the show was going to be canceled, and it may have made sense to swap Punisher into this slot and introduce Iron Fist during the Defenders mini series.

Everyone forgets this part, Marvel apparently knew this was going to be a problem. Whatever made them decide on the corporate boardroom angle was probably just to get this done and move on to the Defenders.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Corporate Boardroom angle better only be the "first arc".

 

[terry78]

I really feel like Danny Rand would've worked better as a supporting character in Luke Cage or another show.

 

[Big Bang]

Whatever made them decide on the corporate boardroom angle was probably just to get this done and move on to the Defenders.

It's just the angle of Danny Rand reclaiming his family legacy, reestablishing himself, and bringing him forward into Defenders.

I'm not worried about the slowness. Parts of all 3x shows bored me to tears at certain points (though I found DareDevil to be the most balanced), but overall I found them all to be enjoyable.

Honestly though, I wouldn't go into this show looking to be blown away. This is just the final setup to Defenders. Now if they manage to screw up that culmination, then we've got a serious problem.

 

[metaphysician]

not necessarily. netflix are owed 13 episodes even if there isn't enough story/budget to fill it.

all of the previous netflix marvel shows could have been a few eps shorter and sounds like iron fist might be the worst culprit of needless bloat and glacial pacing.

Honestly, I think the majority of the pacing problem on the Netflix shows is being too averse to "filler". They try to have the season be one singular story, and end up over stretching it. Instead, they should be more willing to have multiple stories, started and concluded, over the course of the season. . . or at least more one-shot stories that don't need to be about the main plot. Jessica Jones wouldn't have needed as many setbacks if she were allowed to have 2-3 more episodes of non-Killgrave private eye work.

 

[Darepool]

I wonder how that would play out when a big part of these shows is the binge-watching aspect.

 

[Dark Raven]

How can they expect people to binge on dry Weetabix for six hours at a stretch, even being told you might possibly get something a bit more palatable later on (which would probably be just some milk to add to your Weetabix, which you've already grown sick of after eating nothing but that)?

 

[Darepool]

How can they expect people to binge on dry Weetabix for six hours at a stretch, even being told you might possibly get something a bit more palatable later on (which would probably be just some milk to add to your Weetabix, which you've already grown sick of after eating nothing but that)?

People will just skip to the milk in episode 7. Another (unintended) benefit of the full series release concept.

 

[2kt09]

Put a disclaimer:
Viewer Discretion Advised due to the boring first half

 

[Darepool]

Exhale...episode 7 is here!

 

[Dark Raven]

People will just skip to the milk in episode 7. Another (unintended) benefit of the full series release concept.

But if they skip there and all the information they need to know is in the first half, it might not make sense or they'd be missing plot elements.

They'll probably do it like these build a figure toys for Marvel Legends action figures where the most important parts of the BAF come with the least interesting or least likely to sell figures so you'll be forced to buy even those.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I really feel like Danny Rand would've worked better as a supporting character in Luke Cage or another show.

Based on? Iron Fist isn't a small character.

 

[McSir]

Based on? Iron Fist isn't a small character.

Right, he's had multiple series and stories since the 1970's. If this show is a flop, is not because of the character, it's because of the approach they took.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Hmmm. There's a boardroom story plot where Danny is trying to reclaim his family's company?

So...how much like Batman Begins is this, then?

I gotta say, I'm not bothered by the prospect of very slow pacing. My millage on that goes pretty far. I've heard complaints about slow pacing, and glacial moving plot, with all of the Marvel Netflix shows. I've heard the complaints about all of them, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Daredevil being too long. And I just haven't felt the same way about that stuff. I was very okay with the lengths and pacing.

So, I'm not worried about that going in. I've heard some rumblings that the fight scenes aren't up to snuff, which probably has me more worried than any complaints about pacing. Especially with how much I've enjoyed the fighting in Daredevil, that'd be a disappointment if the fight scenes let me down.

EDIT: Waitaminute, did the show already get released? Is everyone watching it already?

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Comic fans should understand that some properties SHOULD be completely overhauled when relaunching them.

Aquaman, for example, SHOULD by Polynesian...where their culture, even religion, is historically based around the ocean. I thought that a blonde, white Aquaman was stupid when I was a kid. We are (hopefully) past the era where characters are created as white because that is what the plurality of the consumer base is.

As it stands, not only are we getting the tired "white savior in a foreign land/culture" story...we also get the "presumed dead billionaire returns to reclaim his family business" story that we got in Arrow and Batman Begins. It doesn't matter how much of that story existed in the comics...they should have torn the concept down and rebuilt it as something new before the world at large developed any ideas about what an Iron Fist even is.

I mean, to be fair it was done differently in both Arrow and Batman Begins. I don't think the concept itself means it needs to be torn down, but there needs to be a decision made about it. If they can't do it differently enough, or concise enough if they can't somehow avoid being different, then yeah a decision needs to be made. But, I don't think that just because it's like a or b, it needs to be change completely is a given.

Especially with comic fans. Sticking to the source material is such a touchy subject with fans. What you change and why change it can be understood, but it can also make you hated.

There's some characters that I think being white will always make sense, like Batman and Superman, but others...yeah, there's nothing about the roots or background that means they should be. Wonder Woman always seemed like a character that should look Latina or from the Caribbean to me. For someone who's spent hundreds of years on an island in the sun, looking so white without so much as a tan was always odd. Though, Lynda Carter is latina...but I'm talking about the comics.

 

[Darepool]

I don't see why, everything is up for change these days.

#weetabix

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I don't think everything has to be up for change. But, I think there's flexibility on somethings. It's all kinda finicky though. We're a fanbase that will have large groups revolt if the size of a symbol is changed.

 

[RockSP]

(googles 'weetabix')

 

[Darepool]

I don't think everything has to be up for change. But, I think there's flexibility on somethings. It's all kinda finicky though. We're a fanbase that will have large groups revolt if the size of a symbol is changed.

I agree. It's just very easy to make a case for why a character's race could be changed without effecting the principles or integrity of what makes the character 'work'

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I agree. It's just very easy to make a case for why a character's race could be changed without effecting the principles or integrity of what makes the character 'work'

True, though I think for some it is, and others it's not. Superman being white with black hair, and the spit curl, feels like it's part of his creators Jewish roots. Bruce Wayne comes from old money, and is part of Gotham's social elite. Old money and social elitism...is white.

I don't think that means that you can't stick to the source material, though. Getting angry at Jones being cast as Danny because of his race seems a bit far to me.

 

[Dasher10]

Everyone forgets this part, Marvel apparently knew this was going to be a problem. Whatever made them decide on the corporate boardroom angle was probably just to get this done and move on to the Defenders.

It was presumably since they knew that Iron Fist can't be done properly on TV with a full 13 episodes. I remember these rumors, Jeph Loeb wanted to turn Iron Fist into a TV movie but Ted Serandos wouldn't let him since he paid for 13 episodes but it still had to be shot on a $50 million dollar budget despite the stories from the comics being far less grounded than Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage's stories.

Here's the problem. Other characters really need the TV-MA rating to be done well and have grounded street-level stories that can be done on television. Moon Knight, Elektra, Shang-Chi, Ghost Rider and Blade all come to mind. But Luke Cage needs Iron Fist. Since Defenders is a renamed Heroes for Hire, Danny's story needed to be told so Iron Fist wound up taking the place of a potentially much better TV show.

 

[Dasher10]

Right, he's had multiple series and stories since the 1970's. If this show is a flop, is not because of the character, it's because of the approach they took.

Yep. And I feel like there could have been a take on Iron Fist which actually was cost effective. The problem is that MCU properties need more tonal variety. I feel like the Captain America and Guardians of the Galaxy films on the film side and Luke Cage on the TV side really did differentiate themselves from the rest of the MCU. I want to see more of that. The problem with Iron Fist is that it tried to be too much like Daredevil.