Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[guyisnotcool]

Probably not the best thing to say

 

[TheVileOne]

I mean...Trump did get elected...so maybe in more urban cities and through more liberal areas that's the attitude, but let's also remember no matter how much young people or people online might hate Trump, people still voted for him, especially small towns and middle America. However flawed you might find out.

But besides that, maybe they could've played with that dynamic a little bit more. But then the show would be accused to of "#Whitesplaining." Honestly, this is a slippery slope, and I don't know what the right answer is.

When we get into this territory, almost anything can set people off these days. Not to mention, the internet gives a loud voice to everyone, so even the most minute criticisms have a platform.

For Doctor Strange, I'm not saying the people upset about the Ancient One casting do not have a point. But you can argue even as an Asian character someone like the Ancient One is equally problematic. Maybe it could've been handled better, but I feel no matter what route they took, it would've been problematic no matter what.

 

[Dark Raven]

good lord finn lol

What a load of baloney.

Are people going to stop rooting for Tony Stark or Dr Strange? Or what about in Arrow with Oliver Queen? Or Batman?

People don't root for Trump not because he may come from white privilege, but because of everything else about him.

Sounds like Finn is now just making excuses for why people might not be rooting for Iron Fist, when in fact his portrayal might be bland and boring and people simply aren't interested enough to root for or follow his story.

 

[TheVileOne]

Also just saying, American people still voted for Trump. I'm not saying you shouldn't hate him. He's a polarizing figure. But NOT everyone hates him. Even if he lost popular vote a lot of Americans liked him and voted for him to become President.

You can't say that and expect everyone watching your show thinks he's public enemy no. 1.

 

[guyisnotcool]

It's baloney because Iron Fist should have nothing do with Trump...

 

[Dark Raven]

It's baloney because Iron Fist should have nothing do with Trump...

He's just finding any excuse for why this thing might fail. Sounds like the excuses the FFINO cast were coming up with when that movie bombed.

This series just wasn't well made. It had Scott Buck for starters.

 

[TheVileOne]

Finn Jones is doing his job. What else is he supposed to do? He can't trash his showrunner and boss, the guy who probably helped him get the job.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

good lord finn lol

Ugh! Please Finn quit defending the show. You're really bad at it. Honestly I feel like I'll watch the show because I planned to. I want to be excited for Iron Fist, but this isn't helping things.

Where's that quote from anyway?

 

[McSir]

He's just finding any excuse for why this thing might fail. Sounds like the excuses the FFINO cast were coming up with when that movie bombed.

This series just wasn't well made. It had Scott Buck for starters.

I'm convinced this is the entirety of the problem: the dude had no vision for this, which Marvel TV needed because they were skittish about the project and probably didn't have a vision either.

There's no stand out aspect to this. Daredevil is a gritty crime drama, Jessica Jones is a noir, Luke Cage is a blaxploitation throw back. What is Iron Fist aiming for? I'm really dying to know at this point.

 

[guyisnotcool]

Finn Jones is doing his job. What else is he supposed to do? He can't trash his showrunner and boss, the guy who probably helped him get the job.

Not say anything?
Or at least stick to the "it's for the fans" defense...

 

[TheVileOne]

He's promoting the show and he's getting asked these questions. I can't blame the guy.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I'm convinced this is the entirety of the problem: the dude had no vision for this, which Marvel TV needed because they were skittish about the project and probably didn't have a vision either.

There's no stand out aspect to this. Daredevil is a gritty crime drama, Jessica Jones is a noir, Luke Cage is a blaxploitation throw back. What is Iron Fist aiming for? I'm really dying to know at this point.

Shoeless Kung-fu boardroom drama. It's a very niche genre.

 

[Darepool]

He had no vision but Loeb hired him anyway...seems like an executive problem. If comic writer Loeb didn't have an idea of what makes the character work.....

 

[Pokkle]

Not say anything?
Or at least stick to the "it's for the fans" defense...

He have to speak, he is getting question on interview, that he have to do.

 

[Big Bang]

What a load of baloney.
Sounds like Finn is now just making excuses for why people might not be rooting for Iron Fist, when in fact his portrayal might be bland and boring and people simply aren't interested enough to root for or follow his story.

Of course he is. He is just tossing the stick of the "white American billionaire archetype" just to get this people off of his back. That's the only element these people are fixated on anyway, so it is an easy way for him to deflect.

Also just saying, American people still voted for Trump. I'm not saying you shouldn't hate him. He's a polarizing figure. But NOT everyone hates him. Even if he lost popular vote a lot of Americans liked him and voted for him to become President.

You can't say that and expect everyone watching your show thinks he's public enemy no. 1.

You shouldn't hate him. At the end of the day he isn't guilty of anything you won't find on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Hating is a losing proposition, and yes that includes those who hated on Obama as well. Simply hating Trump is an excuse to not evaluate why a plurality of states voted him into the presidency, because if people actually did that there would be far less vitriol going around.

The irony of the statement of "rich white people are public enemy #1" is that the vast majority of people who are calling for protests against the President or have rioted are just that. White people from privileged (financially) backgrounds. Some of whom come from college campuses where only one political ideology is allowed.

I suppose in a manner of speaking Finn was correct in that assessment, but probably not in the way he intended.

Ultimately he is wrong when he states that everyone who watches the show are gong to see Danny as the enemy. That's a collectivist world view. Many people are rational enough to see Danny as an individual first, and not just some kind of simplistic label.

 

[Spider-Fan]

He sort has to defend it, but I agree, he is not doing the show any favors.

That said, I still think I will like the show

 

[McSir]

He had no vision but Loeb hired him anyway...seems like an executive problem. If comic writer Loeb didn't have an idea of what makes the character work.....

I'd either forgotten or didn't know Loeb was involved here. Of course; this all makes sense now. Jeff Loeb is the Rob Liefield of the printed word.

 

[Zarex]

The street poster:

Spoiler

If Loeb and his crew wanted to calm down the talk about cultural appropriation, he probably shouldn't have placed the majority white cast in front of a Chinatown street. Not a good look.

 

[TheVileOne]

For all the people throwing Jeph Loeb under the bus, give the guy a brake. Are you going to say he had nothing to do with the success of the previous shows, which he was also heavily involved in?

IMHO, it's unfair when people are ready to skewer him if Daredevil turned out bad, but when the shows turned out all fairly good, no one gives him any credit at all.

 

[McSir]

For all the people throwing Jeph Loeb under the bus, give the guy a brake. Are you going to say he had nothing to do with the success of the previous shows, which he was also heavily involved in?

IMHO, it's unfair when people are ready to skewer him if Daredevil turned out bad, but when the shows turned out all fairly good, no one gives him any credit at all.

He's the guy running the show, if I'm understanding correctly, so until we know what every individual member of the production contributed: yes, it's on him. The quality of the first three Netflix shows is an outlier on his resume, not the standard.

 

[Big Bang]

If Loeb and his crew wanted to calm down the talk about cultural appropriation, he probably shouldn't have placed the majority white cast in front of a Chinatown street. Not a good look.

They should outright ignore those arguments. Any arguments of cultural appropriation are absolutely nonsensical.

 

[TheVileOne]

He's the guy running the show, if I'm understanding correctly, so until we know what every individual member of the production contributed: yes, it's on him. The quality of the first three Netflix shows is an outlier on his resume, not the standard.

So if the first three are good you are calling that an outlier? So one out of four are bad and the other three are overwhelmingly good and he was not involved at all? IMHO that makes no sense.

 

[Pokkle]

Another Finn Jones's interview.
http://dujour.com/culture/finn-jones-twitter-netflix-iron-fist/

As an actor, what effect does delving into Rand’s character have on you?

It forces me to be very open and very vulnerable, and to not play something either black or white, you know. He’s a character in a huge arc.
I just finished filming “The Defenders” at the moment, and it’s really fascinating to see where Danny Rand starts in the beginning of “Iron Fist,” to where he ends in “Defenders.”
He’s really come into himself; figured out his purpose; figured out some form of family. He’s a much more centered human being.

In your statement to Deadline you said part of the reason you took the break was to focus on filming. What effect does criticism have while you’re working?

I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I really think we’ve got a good show on our hands, I really do.
You don’t make the shows for the critics; you make the shows for the fans. But I really, honestly, genuinely think at the end of the day, once the show is released the fans and the people that want to enjoy the show will enjoy it.
In terms of criticism, it’s actually been really interesting because Danny Rand has often faced an onslaught of difficulty, but he is someone that his optimism and his strength of spirit have allowed him to push through. And I see a lot of similarities with me, in that case. I understand myself. I know who I am.

When people on Twitter are calling me ignorant and calling me racist because I’m playing this character, I understand where that comes from and where that frustration comes from. I try and not let it affect me personally because I just know that’s not what I stand for.
I care deeply about social issues; I care deeply about doing the right thing. I care about the same things that people are criticizing me about. I’ve been an advocate for representation in television and film for many years, long before I started “Iron Fist.”
And I do think the show represents a wonderful and diverse group of actors. Not just in the first week’s episode, but in all 13. I feel we’ve done a great job of representing actors from across the board.
And I think it’s important to have [Twitter], where we can speak to each other without barriers.
But I also think, as an artist in the middle of bringing these characters to life, it’s not helpful to have people’s opinions in your face the whole time, especially when they haven’t seen [Rand’s] whole journey.
As an actor it’s not helpful to see those comments because it’s not in line with the originality of what I’m playing.

You are very public about the causes you’re passionate about. I read one blog, which went so far as to say that the Tweeter’s mistake was going up against their own. Do you think it was a mistake?

No. I am incredibly glad that the dialogue is being created.
If anything, all of this, this situation, and what I hope people take from it is what my original intent was the whole time: for people to watch that speech by Riz Ahmed at the House of Commons on representation.
Whenever people are reading about this small, polite exchange between me and this tweeter on that platform, I hope people are really seeing the point.
That’s what is important to me. It’s great that we’re talking about.

 

[McSir]

So if the first three are good you are calling that an outlier? So one out of four are bad and the other three are overwhelmingly good and he was not involved at all? IMHO that makes no sense.

I'm taking about the entirety of his career, not just the Netflix shows. I'll take the blame for the confusion. I've been reading comics for a long time, anything with Loeb's name on it is typically lacking in quality, to be nice.

 

[Zarex]

They should outright ignore those arguments. Any arguments of cultural appropriation are absolutely nonsensical.

Should the folks at Marvel put their hands over their ears and shout "I can't hear you?" Or should they try to learn something from what is looking like their first big flop?

In front of the traditional working class Irish neighborhood of Hell's Kitchen , we have Irish Catholic Matt Murdock.

In front of Harlem, the Capital City of black America, we have African American Luke Cage.

And in front of Chinatown - a white blonde dude. Absolutely nonsensical is not how I would describe it.