Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 4

[chamber-music]

I didn't watch all of Falling Skies but when I did it was always really good, that hopeful. I wouldn't put that much into writing elektra, could always be a case of him writing a good script that a studio tore apart.

Elektra got the usual Tom Rothman screwjob.

The film's budget was cut in half. They only had six weeks to prep the movie and 10 weeks to shoot it.

 

[metaphysician]

And, for all its faults in terms of storytelling, I recall that its kung fu fights were at least decent. Not "make the movie worthwhile" decent, but they didn't actively drag the movie down.

 

[pixen]

He wrote Elektra but then budget cuts destroyed the movie. It was supposed to take place all in the city but then the budget cut forced them to go out into the forest.

The writer has nothing to do with that sort of things. A lot changed from script to the final film. This was also 10 years+ ago and he's probably grown as a writer/director.

As for Danny wearing his outfit, at SDCC:

Jones told Den Of Geek, "At the end of Iron Fist, [Danny] doesn't even know what a superhero is. So then to suddenly be interacting with these three... [They] really make him kind of wise up and come to terms with his responsibilities a lot more. From the beginning where we see Danny in Iron Fist to where he ends up in The Defenders, he has made that complete origin arc. He has shed his immature self. The idea is, in The Defenders, he has in a sense become the Iron Fist."

The conversation then turned to if we will ever see Danny put on his iconic Iron Fist costume. “The thing with all of these shows is not that we're shy to bring the costumes,” Jones says. “It's that we want them to feel authentic when it does happen. Danny's on this journey to understanding what his responsibility is. And throughout all of [Iron Fist] season 1, he was in no state of mind to put a suit on. That would've been ridiculous because he was not fully accomplished as the Iron Fist yet and he certainly didn’t have the right or the responsibility to be putting on a superhero costume. He needs to work his **** out. And certainly by the end of The Defenders, it will feel right.”

 

[NotNickFury]

Those are his credentials, huh? Well, instead of a terrible season, maybe we'll get an average to mediocre one at best.

 

[KevTravels]

Those are his credentials, huh? Well, instead of a terrible season, maybe we'll get an average to mediocre one at best.

Way to Aim High, MCU t:

 

[Random490]

And, for all its faults in terms of storytelling, I recall that its kung fu fights were at least decent. Not "make the movie worthwhile" decent, but they didn't actively drag the movie down.

Again, just one of three writers on it. Whether a fight scene is good is dependent on the director and fight choreographers. The writers are probably working on another job during filming.

Also to put things in perspective what James Gunn, before Guardians of the Galaxy, was most known for writing the 2002 Scooby Doo movie and it's sequel. In fact nothing in his past works would indicate that a space action/adventure movie would be perfect for him. But he got the job because impressed Marvel with his ideas, same thing Russo Bros and Scott Derrickson. My point is in show business you do the work you can get, not necessarily the work you want and one day you'll get something you're passionate about. Just keep that perspective. Whether he'll be a good influence on the series remains to be seen, but the fact that he's a fan of martial arts films leaves me feeling optimistic.

 

[NotNickFury]

Or he's saying whatever sounds good and makes for good headlines. Simply saying something doesn't translate to quality work. Even Jeph Loeb said at first that Scott Buck's take on Iron Fist took him off of his feet and seemed certain that Buck could deliver another great series in this universe.

And before someone yells out 'Source' or 'Link,' here you go:

http://deadline.com/2015/12/marvels-iron-fist-scott-buck-showrunner-executive-producer-1201657809/

“Scott came in with a take on Iron Fist that quite simply knocked us off our feet,” said Executive Producer/Head of Marvel Television, Jeph Loeb. “We always look for the most creative minds in the field to help us bring our heroes to life, and with Scott we’ve found someone that can deliver yet another great series in the ongoing story of The Defenders.”

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Pointing to something that an executive said about a showrunner isn't really convincing support though.

Do you really expect Loeb to say something like "I was bored by Buck's pitch, but I was outvoted when we picked the showrunner"?

They're never going to say anything bad about the people that are making these shows.

 

[NotNickFury]

Well then, there's the problem.

 

[Random490]

Or he's saying whatever sounds good and makes for good headlines. Simply saying something doesn't translate to quality work. Even Jeph Loeb said at first that Scott Buck's take on Iron Fist took him off of his feet and seemed certain that Buck could deliver another great series in this universe.

And before someone yells out 'Source' or 'Link,' here you go:

http://deadline.com/2015/12/marvels-iron-fist-scott-buck-showrunner-executive-producer-1201657809/

That is true. Take anything said with a grain of salt. Though I feel like if Raven didn't have interest in martial arts film you would have just heard something generic like with Scott Buck. So it's really a wait and see thing. Still they know the criticism the first season got, I don't think budget or production schedule will be a problem. With the momentum built in Defenders I have hope it will step up it's game.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Well I prefer to wait and see before offering any strong opinions one way or another. But I will say that if we're looking to a showrunner's past work to judge how good of a fit they are for these shows, then the only ones who should have made anyone feel optimistic are the DD showrunners. I know I had the most doubts about Cheo Hodari Coker (for several reasons) but ultimately, he delivered what was, to me, the best, most entertaining Netflix/Marvel series thus far. So yeah, I'll keep an open mind about Metzner (even as I admit to some wariness with his involvement in Sleepy Hollow and the controversy surrounding the exit of one of its leads.)

 

[Mike Murdock]

Scott Buck came to Loeb with a proposal of a story exploring the 1%. This had an appeal because it allowed the show to be "more" than just a comic book story (similar to Jessica Jones exploring issues of rape and trauma, Luke Cage exploring race and gentrification). Honestly, the stories early on were boring, but they at least had some semblance of cohesiveness, exploring homelessness, mental health, etc.

And, while I think there's some potential to that story (think in the comics when Danny started selling of Rand Industries), it's certainly not the core of the character. So, while there's no guarantee a sales pitch of "martial arts story" will be any better, it certainly is closer to what Iron Fist is about.

 

[Random490]

Scott Buck came to Loeb with a proposal of a story exploring the 1%. This had an appeal because it allowed the show to be "more" than just a comic book story (similar to Jessica Jones exploring issues of rape and trauma, Luke Cage exploring race and gentrification). Honestly, the stories early on were boring, but they at least had some semblance of cohesiveness, exploring homelessness, mental health, etc.

And, while I think there's some potential to that story (think in the comics when Danny started selling of Rand Industries), it's certainly not the core of the character. So, while there's no guarantee a sales pitch of "martial arts story" will be any better, it certainly is closer to what Iron Fist is about.

Yeah the first season's problem was more in execution and fleshing out the idea than the core idea itself. I like the sub plots and the characters, the each episode was very unbalance, the focus can be all over the place, some bad acting here and there, and of course the fight scenes. Almost anyone can make an interesting pitch, it's the follow through that really matters.

 

[TheVileOne]

Iron Fist should've been all about Danny Rand returning home for revenge. That's your setup. And yes, it's done in the backdrop of New York with him being this rich heir to a huge industrial company.

They didn't actually address the revenge issue until like episode 12. His whole agenda should've been finding the people responsible for his parents murders and how that conflicts with his teachings.

 

[KevTravels]

Elektra got the usual Tom Rothman screwjob.

The film's budget was cut in half. They only had six weeks to prep the movie and 10 weeks to shoot it.

who is Tom Rothman? i had no idea there were behind the scenes troubles.

 

[KevTravels]

Iron Fist should've been all about Danny Rand returning home for revenge. That's your setup. And yes, it's done in the backdrop of New York with him being this rich heir to a huge industrial company.

They didn't actually address the revenge issue until like episode 12. His whole agenda should've been finding the people responsible for his parents murders and how that conflicts with his teachings.

^This

 

[Mike Murdock]

Iron Fist should've been all about Danny Rand returning home for revenge. That's your setup. And yes, it's done in the backdrop of New York with him being this rich heir to a huge industrial company.

They didn't actually address the revenge issue until like episode 12. His whole agenda should've been finding the people responsible for his parents murders and how that conflicts with his teachings.

I think the dramatic change to Howard Meacham in the story undercut some of the coolness of the original story. Granted, it's not a story that would have lasted 13 episodes, but the attempt at the end felt simultaneously half-hearted and over the top (even though I think it's one of the strongest episodes). Of course, they could always have stretched out the story by focusing far more on K'un Lun.

I suppose, if one stops to think about it, showing that Danny Rand is Danny Rand isn't something people would accept at face value (although everyone still acted like stupid people in the show). At a minimum, I felt like the first four episodes could have easily been restructured into two.

 

[Random490]

who is Tom Rothman? i had no idea there were behind the scenes troubles.

To sum it up, picture every studio exec who makes bad decisions motivated by profit margins at the determent of the creative success. He's the poster child for that. Pretty much every crappy movie Fox made was because of him.

Example, he's the reason Bryan Singer didn't do X-men 3.

 

[KevTravels]

To sum it up, picture every studio exec who makes bad decisions motivated by profit margins at the determent of the creative success. He's the poster child for that. Pretty much every crappy movie Fox made was because of him.

Example, he's the reason Bryan Singer didn't do X-men 3.

Gotcha. Damn.

 

[KevTravels]

Btw after re-watching Iron Fist, I have to wonder how was he so popular in the comics to begin with? His fists light up and he knows hella king-fu, but was that really a clincher for fans? I know the 70's kung-fu/karate films were all the rage, but maybe I'm missing something.

Since haven't we seen many of the rich guy turned crimefighter in Batman/Iron Man/Green Arrow to say the least. what set Iron Fist apart?

 

[Mike Murdock]

Iron Fist was a Kung Fu revenge story, not a superhero story. That it had a bit of an adventure/mysticism feel. It helped that Chris Claremont was writing him early on. However, he wasn't that popular, which is why they combined the book with Luke Cage to try and get both of their fans.

 

[chamber-music]

The rich corporate guy part of the character really wasn't as big of a part of the character's story in many of the old Iron Fist comics as it is in the show. Joy Meachum has run the Rand Corporation throughout much of the Iron Fist comics history with Danny's blessing. Iron Fist devoted most of his time as part of heroes for hire or his own mystic kung fu solo adventures.

It isn't as prominent as it was in the show. Later Iron Fist comics in the nineties delved more into that side of things.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, I didn't really notice it until Matt Fraction's run.

 

[jaqua99]

I enjoy this show. Period.

Joy though. Every episode she changed. She had no clue what was going on and it seemed they didn't know what to do. She sucked, and tbh is kind of evil. Ward has trauma, their father is a sociopath, she is just..hateable

 

[TheVileOne]

Joy's change in personality at the end made no sense to me.