Is there any crime worse than rape?

[hammy]

Yep, no need to spread the Gospel, because only the people who would've disbelieved it are ever going to Hell.
Awesome!

Isn't that what you think Christianity teaches? That unbelievers go to hell.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Isn't that what you think Christianity teaches? That unbelievers go to hell.

No. There are unbelievers, and it's imperative that Christians spread the Gospel throughout the Earth because all of Human history is a kind of "race against time" to CONVERT the unbelievers before the Judgement.

If there's no way the unconverted would ever convert, then there's no need for Christians to continue praying for loved ones who are currently non-believers.

Like, Paul was a staunch NON-believer, then he had a CONVERSION, and ended up writing a good chunk of the New Testament.

That's why, for most Christians, "dying in your sins" is the most horrifying thing, because they believe that you may have come to "see the light" if you still had a chance.


What you're talking about isn't a case of "unbelievers go to Hell." You're talking about a system where if you go to Hell, it's all right because there's no way you would've possibly converted had you lived.
There are people who don't believe, and then, they change their mind later in life and believe.

 

[hammy]

No. There are unbelievers, and it's imperative that Christians spread the Gospel throughout the Earth because all of Human history is a kind of "race against time" to CONVERT the unbelievers before the Judgement.

If there's no way the unconverted would ever convert, then there's no need for Christians to continue praying for loved ones who are currently non-believers.

But THEY have no way of knowing if their loved one will ever convert or not, so that's why they pray. But God, being omniscient, knows. What I was saying before about someone dieing "before," they become a believer is that I personally don't believe God would allow that. This is just my opinion, not based on scriptural text, but I do think it's consistent with the attributes of God. I do believe that if God knew a person would become a believer the day he turned .. say, 95, that person would live for at least that long.

In the other example about the person being murdered, what I meant was, I personally don't believe God would allow someone he knows will become a Christian, to be murdered before they have actually converted. It's not like he'd say, "Whoops, too bad. I know you would have become a believer in me two and a half years from now, but since you got murdered before you believed, you go to hell for eternity. Tough break."

What you're talking about isn't a case of "unbelievers go to Hell." You're talking about a system where if you go to Hell, it's all right because there's no way you would've possibly converted had you lived.
There are people who don't believe, and then, they change their mind later in life and believe.

No, that's not what I meant. Hopefully that ^^ clarified it for you.

 

[Darren Daring]

There are, like, a billion crimes worse than rape. C'mon, man.

 

[KALEL114]

i would say raping a kid has to be the worst thing , its in no way forgivable . at least some people kill for different reasons , like shooting the abusive husband .

I have to agree. While an adult being forced into sex is a terrible and scaring act, an adult is most likely and more emotionally equped to handle it. A child is still maturing and finding themselves emotionally and it would alter there entire foundation.

 

[DBella]

Serious question

This is something I've pondered for a while. I have known people who have suffered it in the past and it completely changes them. They get shut off from the world and their personalities change irrevocably

When someone is murdered, it's horrible for the family and will often be quite painful, but ultimately it's over in an instant. When someone is raped however they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

The only thing I can think of would be paedophilia, but that's a form of rape in and of itself anyway

Basically it doesn't get any worse than rape in my book.

Agree/disagree?

I cannot pick any of the choices given in this poll. I think all the crimes you mentioned are equally heinous. To say that one option is worse than the others seem to trivialize the seriousness of the other options.

You said that when someone is murdered, it will cause pain only to the family but ultimately be over in an instant? I assume when you said "over in an instant", you are referring to the murder victim. Just because that victim isn't alive to feel the pain, it doesn't make the crime committed against him/her any less worse than the others you mentioned. How do you know it's not painful to his/her soul to have his life robbed from him/her? When someone is raped... some may say that... well, at least you're alive. Just because you're breathing, it doesn't necessarily make you "alive". What's so great about living life in pain, in fear... not being able to trust people? (Note: Not everyone who has been raped feel th^t way. I am sure many see themselves a "survivors" rather than "victims" for they are able to carry on with their lives... if they choose to do so.)

To me, heinous crimes committed against adults or children (such as murder and rape) are equally awful. I don't think that one is worse than the other.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

This is just my opinion, not based on scriptural text,

Correct

but I do think it's consistent with the attributes of God.

No. From what we know of him, he cursed untold billions based on the mistake of TWO people (Adam and Eve). He killed little kids and babies just because he was displeased with their parents. (Passover and the Great Flood)
After 40 years in the desert he wouldn't let Moses enter the Promised Land just because he hit a rock with a stick.

He's...not known for his fair-mindedness and mercy.

I do believe that if God knew a person would become a believer the day he turned .. say, 95, that person would live for at least that long.

I like that system. All I have to do is continue to sin and live for myself, and make a solemn vow to give my heart to Jesus when I'm 120 years old.
That way I get to have all kinds of fun while I'm young, AND I get a guarantee that I'll live to be 120 and then go to Heaven.
SWEET!

 

[DBella]

I do believe that if God knew a person would become a believer the day he turned .. say, 95, that person would live for at least that long.

"If"? I thought God knows all and everything. So... God lets a horrible person live a long life and makes the lives of others miserable for... 94 years and 364 days only because he knows that on his 95th year he'll embrace God? Wow... that's some... God. I wonder if this is what Billy Joel was talking about when he said, "Only the good die young"...

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

No. From what we know of him, he cursed untold billions based on the mistake of TWO people (Adam and Eve). He killed little kids and babies just because he was displeased with their parents. (Passover and the Great Flood)
After 40 years in the desert he wouldn't let Moses enter the Promised Land just because he hit a rock with a stick.

He's...not known for his fair-mindedness and mercy.

HE's just got a bad publicist...

 

[hammy]

I like that system. All I have to do is continue to sin and live for myself, and make a solemn vow to give my heart to Jesus when I'm 120 years old.
That way I get to have all kinds of fun while I'm young, AND I get a guarantee that I'll live to be 120 and then go to Heaven.
SWEET!

Exactly. Pretty sweet deal. Except the giving your heart thing .. nothing about that in the bible that I know of. It's all about believing. If you can suddenly make yourself believe when you're 120, you're in.

 

[Matt]

I'd just like to remind everyone that this is not a religious debate thread and to please keep this thread on topic.

 

[hammy]

"If"? I thought God knows all and everything. So... God lets a horrible person live a long life and makes the lives of others miserable for... 94 years and 364 days only because he knows that on his 95th year he'll embrace God? Wow... that's some... God. I wonder if this is what Billy Joel was talking about when he said, "Only the good die young"...

Who says they're a horrible person? Lots of perfectly nice people aren't believers. And the "IF" referred to the person becoming a believer, not God knowing. I take it English is not your first language, hence the misunderstanding.

 

[DBella]

Who says they're a horrible person? Lots of perfectly nice people aren't believers. And the "IF" referred to the person becoming a believer, not God knowing. I take it English is not your first language, hence the misunderstanding.

No one said that. I just asked, what if that person is horrible but God knew one day he'll become a believer, will that person get to live a long life regardless that he's not a nice person?

I understand English perfectly. Sometimes, even with the understanding of the language, there can still be misunderstandings.

 

[DBella]

I'd just like to remind everyone that this is not a religious debate thread and to please keep this thread on topic.

Every topic has the tendency to turn into a religious or political discussion. Especially religious.

 

[Matt]

Every topic has the tendency to turn into a religious or political discussion. Especially religious.

How much longer do we have until the NFL thread gets there?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I'd just like to remind everyone that this is not a religious debate thread and to please keep this thread on topic.

It's totally on topic.

People are acting as if we know that when you are murdered, your suffering is at an end, so, rape is a worse crime because the victim's suffering goes on throughout their life.

If the Bible is true, then murdering someone who hasn't accepted Jesus is the ULTIMATE crime, where rape leaves the victim alive, still able to avoid eternal torment in Hell if they repent at some point.

If none of us know for sure what happens when you die, then those that believe your suffering ends at death are no more correct than those that believe your REAL suffering begins when you die.

 

[DBella]

How much longer do we have until the NFL thread gets there?

Don't even say that!!!
I think when that happens, I believe the apocalypse is upon us.
However, I do pray everytime any one of my teams are playing. The god in charge of the Supersonics department is playing deaf with me!

 

[DBella]

It's totally on topic.

People are acting as if we know that when you are murdered, your suffering is at an end, so, rape is a worse crime because the victim's suffering goes on throughout their life.

If the Bible is true, then murdering someone who hasn't accepted Jesus is the ULTIMATE crime, where rape leaves the victim alive, still able to avoid eternal torment in Hell if they repent at some point.

If none of us know for sure what happens when you die, then those that believe your suffering ends at death are no more correct than those that believe your REAL suffering begins when you die.

I didn't read the whole thread (as usual) but that explanation doesn't sound offtopic to me. Eternal torment does sound VERY bad.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Therapy helps those who are willing to help themselves. Rape is a crime that is almost "sold" in our society, where being a victim of it is an "event". But it's fairly common, moreso than most people think, sadly.

Essentially, I think many rape victims believe they are "supposed" to feel a certain way and react psychologically for a number of reasons, sometimes because they simply don't know how to react.

It's horrible that someone finds themself in that place. But that doesn't happen to everyone who is raped. The whole "My life is over" thing has almost become the "accepted" reaction to rape, which I feel is best shown/perpetuated by things like LIFETIME movies. I know several people who have been raped and are okay, who have managed to move on, some with very little incident. Of course they remember it happened, and wish it hadn't, but they don't dwell on it, or let it seep into their psyches as much as some do. As someone said earlier, it's not the same for everyone.

I know one girl who was raped from the time she was about six...until her father finally impregnated her and then wouldn't let her keep the child when she was 17 years old. It happened, she did what she needed to do to get out of the situation finally, and she put it in perspective. At this point she realizes it's not her fault and that it doesn't have some cosmic meaning, and while she more or less hates the man, she's managed to move on with her life and be a fairly healthy person (as much as any of us really can be).

A beautifully insightful post. My profession is, unfortunatly, one of the reasons people expect to be permanently damaged by rape. If the social expectation were different, you'd see far less people "unable" to recover...

 

[Matt]

It's totally on topic.

People are acting as if we know that when you are murdered, your suffering is at an end, so, rape is a worse crime because the victim's suffering goes on throughout their life.

If the Bible is true, then murdering someone who hasn't accepted Jesus is the ULTIMATE crime, where rape leaves the victim alive, still able to avoid eternal torment in Hell if they repent at some point.

If none of us know for sure what happens when you die, then those that believe your suffering ends at death are no more correct than those that believe your REAL suffering begins when you die.

Fair enough, just downplay the entire, is there/isn't there a god aspect of the debate. This thread is not a religion thread, if you want to debate the principals of a religion, create one.

 

[hammy]

No one said that. I just asked, what if that person is horrible but God knew one day he'll become a believer, will that person get to live a long life regardless that he's not a nice person?

It seems so. I don't make the rules. I don't know how it's any better if a horrible person dies earlier. Living a long life isn't necessarily a gift.

 

[Sandman138]

Even without going to genocide or murder, wouldn't sexual slavery (the non consensual kind) be worse than rape by default? I mean, it's rape on a daily basis.

 

[The Guard]

A beautifully insightful post. My profession is, unfortunatly, one of the reasons people expect to be permanently damaged by rape. If the social expectation were different, you'd see far less people "unable" to recover...

Exactly.

Even without going to genocide or murder, wouldn't sexual slavery (the non consensual kind) be worse than rape by default? I mean, it's rape on a daily basis.

I believe it would be a lot worse. There's an ongoing emotional abuse to that kind of crime that may be even worse than the physical abuse.

 

[xisaacx]

and then you do have the girls who CRY rape when that isnt the case and end up ruining a guys life and rep just cause, honestly you can never be to safe these days.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I think that it is just below murder.