Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - - Part 16

[Boom]

Did you like anything of what Leto brought to the part (if we can isolate the writing from the performance for a bit)? I've been re-watching some of his scenes, and I can definitely see tons of potential still.

Well, aesthetically he is 99% perfect. Though I still wouldn't mind him taking another chemical bath and losing the grillz. Then we're talking 100% flawless.

I only truly enjoyed three Joker moments:

1) That moment when he's about to leave Harley to die in the vat but then changes his mind.
2) When he says "Oh this looks neat!" and sticks the injector into the scientist's neck.
3) Him laughing while firing the AK.

But that's all they were. Moments. The longer his scenes played out, the less I liked what I saw.

I understand that the character is crazy, but at a certain point I needed Leto to tone it down a bit. A guy who acts tough probably isn't all that tough. Same sort of logic applies here. Him acting so openly crazy made him actually comes across less crazy to me, if that makes any sense. Gave a real "poser" quality to his performance. I was more annoyed and put-off than I was unnerved.

Granted, his scenes were cut to ribbons and his dialogue (what little that was left) wasn't particularly great, which is why I'm not ready to throw in the towel completely. I just think they need to rework the character a bit. I do not want to see thirty minutes of what we saw in this movie. I need something more three-dimensional.

 

[Timebomb]

I'm a fan of the character in general and always have been. He's my favourite villain in all of fiction.

This. I love a lot of interpretations. Ledger was great and the interagation room scene is my favorite scene in any CBM. I love Nicholson, Romero and even the actor who played him in City Of Scars. If I had to pick a definitive version then probably the voice and look of Hamill's BTAS version. So I am completely open to new versions. I just hated Leto's.

 

[DeadStroke]

Jack was just Jack to me, anyway I digress...

I actually don't mind the look anymore. I've grown to love the grills that make him appear quite similar look to Conrad Veidt in some scenes and tattoos weren't that jarring to me in the film itself, though, I'd still like them gone.

Anyway, I do remain convinced that there is a potential. Just give him a good script and make the film work in his favor, as TDK worked in Ledger's. Or at least, not against him, as SS did. If possible, retcon that frickin' relationship as well. It is still salvageable in my book... now whether they'll do it, remains to be seen.

But I was having so much fun with Jack that it didn't bother me.

Like I said The Shining era Jack could have totally nailed a Ledger style Joker. imo

I like the look. I like the teeth. I like the tux. If you think about it we really don't see much of the tats anyway.

They easily retcon it well.

Harley is only remembering the good moments between her and Joker. Joker is like a child who just really misses his toy. A toy that can still break every now and then.

Once back in his arm she'll see the monster again.

The look isn't the issue. Just keep him in a tux or the purple suit like they had for the concept art.

 

[Jekecy]

I do like his body language. His mannerisms are on-point, very animates series.

His facial expressions, too, were very animated. Heath had his fair share, but his specific makeup didn't translate it as much.

I love his gleeful smile when he slowly closes his eyes. He did it twice (with Margot and then with Ike). Something so hilarious about how he's soaking the joy in like a little kid.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

only part I enjoyed with him was the Alex Ross inspired scene. And you know what? Margot looked like she was ripped from the artwork and Leto, well... he was just making that face. Barely smiled..... not to nitpick or anything lol.

 

[DeadStroke]

Well, aesthetically he is 99% perfect. Though I still wouldn't mind him taking another chemical bath and losing the grillz. Then we're talking 100% flawless.

I only truly enjoyed three Joker moments:

1) That moment when he's about to leave Harley to die in the vat but then changes his mind.
2) When he says "Oh this looks neat!" and sticks the injector into the scientist's neck.
3) Him laughing while firing the AK.

But that's all they were. Moments. The longer his scenes played out, the less I liked what I saw.

I understand that the character is crazy, but at a certain point I needed Leto to tone it down a bit. A guy who acts tough probably isn't all that tough. Same sort of logic applies here. Him acting so openly crazy made him actually comes across less crazy to me, if that makes any sense. Gave a real "poser" quality to his performance. I was more annoyed and put-off than I was unnerved.

Granted, his scenes were cut to ribbons and his dialogue (what little that was left) wasn't particularly great, which is why I'm not ready to throw in the towel completely. I just think they need to rehaul the character a bit though. I do not want to see thirty minutes of what we saw in this movie. I need something more three-dimensional.

I think we'd all look differently on his performance if we had a Batman/Joker movie already.

If we understood the character. Saw the three dimensional version we'd probably just be glad to have him back in this film. You'd welcome the character and just take it for what it is. If I read the Suicide Squad New 52 Joker/Harley stuff it plays out almost exactly like it does in the comics. He's just there for her origin and drops by for a short time. Its just easier to accept there because we already have another source to see more of the Joker.

I still feel if they cut the find Harley stuff out of the movie it would served his character better. Just have 1 long Arkham scene, the chemical vat scene and then him breaking her out at the very end. A nice little surprise. That was the best way to use the character in this movie imo.

 

[DeadStroke]

only part I enjoyed with him was the Alex Ross inspired scene. And you know what? Margot looked like she was ripped from the artwork and Leto, well... he was just making that face. Barely smiled..... not to nitpick or anything lol.

That was a subtle moment for his character though. One of the very few.

He's smiling/enjoying the moment with her and then quickly ends it because he kind of hates himself for feeling a little something for her. It kind of goes back to his swan dive for her during the chemical wedding scene. He's having a mix of emotions for Harley.

It reminded me a bit of Sweeney Todd and Mrs. Lovett.

Then again Sweeney never cared at all.

 

[Micromind]

His facial expressions, too, were very animated. Heath had his fair share, but his specific makeup didn't translate it as much.

I love his gleeful smile when he slowly closes his eyes. He did it twice (with Margot and then with Ike). Something so hilarious about how he's soaking the joy in like a little kid.

Heath Ledger's Joker looked threatening, dangerous, unpredictable but.... He never looked Insane, which Leto's Joker does, that's what sold me on his performance, he looks crazy.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Co-signed.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't like the idea that the Joker's main drive is his fixation on Harley. Makes him too predictable, far too easy to exploit, and much less interesting than he has the potential to be. What's funny is that Batman could practically pull a "Killing Joke" on the man himself in this universe. Given Batman's antics in BvS...I wouldn't even put it past him.

Agreed.

Not true on my part.

I've said time and time again, I didn't need Leto to "surpass" Ledger in my eyes. I just wanted a strong performance and characterization. I got neither. That's all it is. MasterChief (who loves Leto's take) is the one who seems insistent on bringing Ledger up in the conversation, so here we are.

I wanted to love Leto's Joker. Truly. I've been in this thread since day one. I have tons of pictures of his Joker saved on my iPad. Hell, I can even pull up a post where I suggested Leto as the Joker long before he was actually cast. I figured if anyone could take the torch from Ledger and do right by the character, it was him.

For the time being, I have been proven wrong.

Agreed. I never like look of Leto Joker but I still want him to be good but his character so bad. Get nothing right. Worst Joker.

 

[DeadStroke]

I liked the slight hesitation by Leto in the chemical vat scene. Not just after she falls into the chemicals, but also when he's about to ask if she'll live for him. He's getting ready to ask the question and then stops for a second. Seems like for the first time he actually cared what a response to him might be.

 

[Wildcard]

But I was having so much fun with Jack that it didn't bother me.

Like I said The Shining era Jack could have totally nailed a Ledger style Joker. imo

I like the look. I like the teeth. I like the tux. If you think about it we really don't see much of the tats anyway.

They easily retcon it well.

Harley is only remembering the good moments between her and Joker. Joker is like a child who just really misses his toy. A toy that can still break every now and then.

Once back in his arm she'll see the monster again.

The look isn't the issue. Just keep him in a tux or the purple suit like they had for the concept art.

I agree, there's really no reason to discard the tattoos. But yes, for his next appearance he needs to spend a nice amount of time wearing a purple suit. Doesn't have to be for his entire outing, just a nice bit of time.

 

[MasterChief2829]

 

[Serpico Jones]

I had no idea Jared Leto is 44 years old. He looks 20 years younger.

 

[Micromind]

I think he looks 33 year old.

 

[harlequinade]

Virtually every Joker scene was cut down, chopped up, and sloppily edited with weird graphics inserted. It's so glaring and obvious, just as it's obvious that they weren't presented as David Ayer intended them to be.

- Each Joker "scene" seemed to last no longer than 1-2 minutes, with several bits lasting for a minute or less. Some were even mashed up into that music video-esque montage, and obviously, several were cut entirely to seemingly remove the abusive nature of his relationship with Harley and give them a happy ending together.

- In most of his bits, he only has something like 1-3 lines. A few examples:

1. "Where is she??" ... "Pull the car around."
2. "Oh, we've got company!"
3. "Well, what do we have here!"..."I'm not gonna kill ya. I'm just gonna hurt ya..." (There was obviously a chunck cut out of this scene)
4. "Blah blah blah...all of that chit chat's gonna getcha hurt."..."I can tell you meant that."..."You gonna be my friend?" (At least one line was cut here, possibly more)
5. No more than 2 lines in the Arkham therapy scene, as far as I can remember. There must have been more to it, but they only left in the bare minimum amount of dialogue needed before being able to move on to the next "scene" in the montage.
6. He said something like 4-5 sentences in the chemical bath scene. A chunk of the scene itself seems to be missing along with the Joker/Harley scenes that were originally meant to precede it (Harley chasing him down, Joker slapping Harley, deciding to bring her to where he was "born", etc)
7. Same goes for the helicopter rescue. Couldn't have been more than 4-6 lines there.
8. Just one sentence (consisting of 4 words) in his final scene with Harley

- Getting back to the editing, I think his longest scene (which was part of a ****ing montage) was in the club with Common, and The Joker shooting Common was neutered with those weird, colorful graphics that would turn the screen purple (like in the electro shock scene) or sepia in the case of the club scene. Anyone with a brain can recognize that those graphics and the use of quick/frenetic jump cuts were inserted to hide that fact that those scenes were gutted and/or censored to make them less intense and violent.

- Those awful soundtrack songs seemed to play over a couple of his "key" moments like the club scene and chemical bath scene, which automatically kills the tension and atmosphere of those scenes -- especially the chemical bath scene. Can you imagine if Nolan had decided to have a pop song playing while The Joker speaks to Rachel at the party in TDK? Lol

- The brief conversation between Harley and The Joker on the helicopter was almost certainly from the reshoots, after they decided to retool the Harley/Joker relationship and remove all potentially controversial elements.


And this is only for The Joker scenes! The editing and retooling of the film affected many more characters and things beyond the Harley/Joker stuff. The editing in the BvS theatrical cut was choppy and all over the place, but this is like a master class in how to NOT edit and **** with a movie so late in the game.

the harley/joker helicopter scene is heavily ADR-ed, as two lines in particular stand out "You know I would do anything for you" and "It's you and me, baby". When you watch the movie in one go the shear volume of butchery is well hidden, but going scene for scene it's quite a sight to behold.

Reading this just makes me sad :/

^ Should've used that purple suit.

<3!!!!!!!!

leto's face in the right light looks positively skeleton-like with the white face, no eyebrows, dark eye-shadow and metal teeth. like it or not it's a striking image. particularly during the chemical wedding.

Yes! I was so freaked out how thin he looked in that scene. He looked like skeleton there

I had no idea Jared Leto is 44 years old. He looks 20 years younger.

That's what being a vegan, not smoking, not drinking, by his own admission using drugs only during orgies, not being married and not having kids does

 

[harlequinade]

I'm surprised Jared actually gained weight for this role. He has Maleficent cheekbones here

 

[wikum]

I kinda like the whole gangster/cartel kind of Joker if he's going to have a love interest. You can tell this version was heavily influenced by Azzarello/Bermejo Joker other than his appearance (which was obviously too much like Ledgers' to use in this film). The club scene is almost straight out of that comic.

However, I think there's a big chance a lot of his stuff was cut purely because it was bad. Letos' Joker was just a odd...and not in a good way. He almost comes across as mentally ******ed in a couple of scenes (driving the car for example). I don't like using that terminology but I don't really understand how else to put it.

I've watched the nightclub scene a few times now and I'm not sure what he's going for? It's like he's really good when he's menacing but then the eccentric parts are just horrible. It's almost like he's unintentionally being sarcastically over the top. I also think it was a big mistake that he went with a voice that sounded so much like Ledger. Jared has such a great range as an actor that it kinda made me think it was a bit of a lazy choice on his behalf.

Overall I think he's the worst Joker on film but he had so little dialogue that they can get away with it and improve him for his next appearance. There were a few moments where I thought he absolutely nailed it, so all is not lost for the future. It's just that every time he reeled me in, he then did something to make me think he was awful again.

 

[Greens]

Ayer confirms that Batman knocked Joker's teeth out... which doesn't really make sense because he's got the metal teeth when he meets Harley and Harley is supposed to be an accomplice

"This is sort of my personal thing and maybe less about a larger connection. But Joker killed Robin and Batman basically smashes his teeth out and locks him up in Arkham Asylum. It&#8217;s in the asylum where Joker would have done the &#8216;damaged&#8217; tattoo as a message to Batman saying, 'You&#8217;ve damaged me. I was so beautiful before and now you&#8217;ve destroyed my face.' That&#8217;s where the grill comes from."

 

[harryoscop]

Ayer confirms that Batman knocked Joker's teeth out... which doesn't really make sense because he's got the metal teeth when he meets Harley and Harley is supposed to be an accomplice

Nice to have confirmation.

 

[harlequinade]

Ayer confirms that Batman knocked Joker's teeth out... which doesn't really make sense because he's got the metal teeth when he meets Harley and Harley is supposed to be an accomplice

My God the director cannot keep track of his own movie with continuity problems :/

 

[Greens]

My God the director cannot keep track of his own movie with continuity problems :/

To be fair, the contradiction is because of that one, quick line of text in Harley's intro. Maybe they just didn't really think it through.

 

[harlequinade]

To be fair, the contradiction is because of that one, quick line of text in Harley's intro. Maybe they just didn't really think it through.

Did anyone? First the Robin tattoo, now this, the audience really shouldn't have to do some mental gymnastics here.

 

[tek]

I get why some did not like Leto's joker due to characterization, look , performance etc. I have been uneasy from the get go as to why they cast him initially. It screamed to me as a MISCAST. He does not have the commanding voice or look or the physical tools and I think it played out that way. Actually the lovesick Joker , although not the joker and bordering on pathetic, was probably a better fit for the effeminate Leto. Even a bisexual joker may have been a better angle for his look and demeanour, though that does not fit with the movie we got. Start again and dont put him in this universe

 

[Greens]

Did anyone? First the Robin tattoo, now this, the audience really shouldn't have to do some mental gymnastics here.

Yeah the Robin tattoo is another one, that's right. It's kind of sad that they would be better off not touching on the Robin thing at all from here on out lol

 

[harlequinade]

Yeah the Robin tattoo is another one, that's right. It's kind of sad that they would be better off not touching on the Robin thing at all from here on out lol

Is there a chance they do some flashback in JL to this whole Robin was killed by the Joker thing? They seem to want to desperately remind people of that