Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - Part 13

[Greens]

Even though I hate Penguin being reduced a casino owner, it at least fits in with his persona. Penguin is and always has been motivated by material gain and power. So running a casino and lining his pockets with all the back room shady dealings is something Penguin would strive for.

Joker being a business man? He couldn't care less about such things. That would bore him to tears.

Joker's nightclubs give him a steady stream of cash so he can do whatever the **** he wants in his free time. In this big connected universe it's a hassle if Joker needs to rob a bank every time he needs some dough. Plus, stepping on other people's turf and ****ing them over is a nice way to stroke his ego.

 

[The Endless]

I like what Ayer has to say. Joker is an iconic villain. More iconic and famous than most heroes!

Yet, has there really been a definitive version? Is incarnation to hit pop culture is completely different.

I'm totally on board with this psychotic "celebrity" crime lord take.

And it will be cool to see a Joker with some history. He's been around a long time. He's already had some wins against Batman. I can't wait to see that confrontation in the future.

 

[Jekecy]

Joker being a business man? He couldn't care less about such things. That would bore him to tears. Joker gets his flashy vehicles and lairs because he steals money and finances his crazy endeavors himself. He doesn't set himself up as a business man of the underworld to do it.

Joker not caring about money, I agree with. But if acquiring money and fame establishes his reign and image above all, I think he's more than fine with taking it under his arm.

 

[Boom]

Money, jewelry, cars, clothes all tie into his vanity and narcissism.

 

[Greens]

I like what Ayer has to say. Joker is an iconic villain. More iconic and famous than most heroes!

Yet, has there really been a definitive version? Is incarnation to hit pop culture is completely different.

I'm totally on board with this psychotic "celebrity" crime lord take.

And it will be cool to see a Joker with some history. He's been around a long time. He's already had some wins against Batman. I can't wait to see that confrontation in the future.

I've always associated Joker more with gangsters than lone serial killers. Even Ledger was more of a gangster. Serial killers don't have henchmen and other organizational resources, and gangsters don't have those things without cash flow. These nightclubs only add to the hedonistic paradise Joker has created for himself. Instead of hanging out in a makeshift lair, he can have dancers go up and down the poles with Batman masks on.

 

[The Joker]

Joker's nightclubs give him a steady stream of cash so he can do whatever the **** he wants in his free time. In this big connected universe it's a hassle if Joker needs to rob a bank every time he needs some dough. Plus, stepping on other people's turf and ****ing them over is a nice way to stroke his ego.

Again that would bore the hell out of him. Joker gets way more kicks stealing money in a flashy risky style, than he would get a safe steady income from a line of businesses. He can step on people's turf and screw them over in a hundred more interesting and creative ways than being reduced to a business man who's gobbling up criminal turf.

That's something I associate with the likes of the casino owner version of Penguin or Black Mask. Not the Joker.

 

[The Endless]

Haha exactly.

 

[The Joker]

Joker not caring about money, I agree with. But if acquiring money and fame establishes his reign and image above all, I think he's more than fine with taking it under his arm.

That's more the Joker's style. A crazy nonsensical scheme to patent fish by putting Joker faces on them.

 

[Boom]

That's more the Joker's style. A crazy nonsensical scheme to patent fish by putting Joker faces on them.

It's still a business move he's aiming to make a profit off of.

 

[Greens]

That's more the Joker's style. A crazy nonsensical scheme to patent fish by putting Joker faces on them.

Can't really blame Ayer for not going the nonsensical route. lol

 

[Jekecy]

That's more the Joker's style. A crazy nonsensical scheme to patent fish by putting Joker faces on them.

There's also the established history to consider. If Batman's been around for 20 years, then Joker is likely at the same stage in his criminal career; as a veteran. Off-shoot branding antics could only be sustained for so long, perhaps he’s moved past that and wants to cement his legacy on the criminal underworld.

 

[Greens]

There's also the established history to consider. If Batman's been around for 20 years, then Joker is likely at the same stage in his criminal career; as a veteran. Off-shoot branding antics could only be sustained for so long, perhaps he’s moved past that and wants to cement his legacy on the criminal underworld.

I was thinking about that. How long can you have Joker sitting there cooking up zany schemes in a movie universe? Works great for TV and comics, not sure if it's sustainable here.

 

[Jekecy]

I was thinking about that. How long can you have Joker sitting there cooking up zany schemes in a movie universe? Works great for TV and comics, not sure if it's sustainable here.

It's one aspect which is refreshingly new for characters who have been interpreted more than any other in the genre. We're actually seeing these men play out their lives in a 'matured' state. They're not in the 'Year One' stage where they're figuring themselves out and evolving as they go. These two are probably set in their ways. I can't wait to see their dynamic under that context.

 

[The Joker]

I've always associated Joker more with gangsters than lone serial killers. Even Ledger was more of a gangster. Serial killers don't have henchmen and other organizational resources, and gangsters don't have those things without cash flow.

That goes for just about all the criminals in Batman's rogues gallery. Nearly all of them have organizational resources, and henchmen, even the most unconventional ones motivated by emotional goals:

 

[Greens]

That goes for just about all the criminals in Batman's rogues gallery. Nearly all of them have organizational resources, and henchmen, even the most unconventional ones motivated by emotional goals:

Right, but Joker actually looks like a gangster and isn't motivated by emotional goals. That's what I meant, it's not a big stretch.

 

[The Joker]

There's also the established history to consider. If Batman's been around for 20 years, then Joker is likely at the same stage in his criminal career; as a veteran. Off-shoot branding antics could only be sustained for so long, perhaps he’s moved past that and wants to cement his legacy on the criminal underworld.

If Joker ever wanted to leave a legacy on the underworld, I think there would be nothing more boring to him than to be remembered as someone who ran a bunch of criminal businesses.

Having fish that share his face? That's the Joker. It's wild, it's crazy, it's totally unconventional and unique. Being remembered for running criminal businesses? He would yawn at the idea.

Joker would be more creative and far more crazy and off beat in his approach to such a thing. Like Ledger's Joker making a statement by burning a huge pile of money, keeping Batman around for laughs and fun, and declaring Gotham needs a better class of criminal than ones who just care abut lining their pockets. That's far more Joker like and interesting than business man mentality. Batman's got villains coming out the ying yang who are motivated by that. One of the reasons Joker is so great is he doesn't fall into that bracket. He's his own special brand of crazy.

The Jokerz in Batman Beyond, a gang of trouble making chaos causing loons would appeal to him more as a legacy than being remembered as a business man type crime lord IMO.

 

[Greens]

We'll have to see how it pans out. If this is the Joker we're getting I'm fine with it, but maybe there's more to the character that hasn't been revealed.

 

[The Shape]

It's still a business move he's aiming to make a profit off of.

Yeah.

I'm not really sure why some are talking like the "business" this Joker is running is a boring, legitimate one that he would never be a part of. Based on what we've seen and heard about the film, it seems like he's still stealing, maiming, killing, and is up to all kinds of "no good" to get what he wants and to fund his wild antics. The fact that he has somewhat of a structured criminal organization (which still involves his goons wearing silly costumes) made up of other criminals working under him (who are likely scared ****less of him) doesn't really change any of that, and I doubt he's trying to make money because he wants to open up a stock portfolio or pay off student loans. I have little doubt it's more about having control and the ability to do as he pleases, more than anything.

Also, as someone mentioned, this is where this Joker is at right now in this Batman's 20-year timeline, likely having moved past periods of being a lone-wolf serial killer or troublemaker. This could just be his current "phase", and we know The Joker is often going through different phases with different motivations and actions. Beyond that, we don't know what kind of things he's done outside of his "business".

 

[Jekecy]

If Joker ever wanted to leave a legacy on the underworld, I think there would be nothing more boring to him than to be remembered as someone who ran a bunch of criminal businesses.

Having fish that share his face? That's the Joker. It's wild, it's crazy, it's totally unconventional and unique. Being remembered for running criminal businesses? He would yawn at the idea.

Joker would be more creative and far more crazy and off beat in his approach to such a thing. Like Ledger's Joker making a statement by burning a huge pile of money, keeping Batman around for laughs and fun, and declaring Gotham needs a better class of criminal than ones who just care abut lining their pockets. That's far more Joker like and interesting than business man mentality. Batman's got villains coming out the ying yang who are motivated by that. One of the reasons Joker is so great is he doesn't fall into that bracket. He's his own special brand of crazy.

The Jokerz in Batman Beyond, a gang of trouble making chaos causing loons would appeal to him more as a legacy than being remembered as a business man type crime lord IMO.

Goes without saying we’re probably speaking ahead of turn here. I’m going to give Ayer and co. the benefit of the doubt that Joker isn’t ‘merely’ a crime lord. I agree it’s boring and not befitting of the character. However I’ve not been given the impression this is the case in the few shots we’ve seen.

It’s all in how Joker runs things. If Gotham is his hellhole with several turfs and criminal acts representing a culture distinctly influenced by his makeup, then that’s all the distinction I need.

For a cinematic universe in which we’re dropped in the middle of an ongoing timeline, I can understand skipping the novelty acts (which are more appropriate for introductions). If we’re to believe these characters have lived, survived, and continue to thrive in an urban sprawl of freaks, it’s almost a requirement to establish why they’re still at the top of the ladder.

 

[The Joker]

Right, but Joker actually looks like a gangster and isn't motivated by emotional goals. That's what I meant, it's not a big stretch.

I don't think Jerry Robinson and Bill Finger (I'm giving Bob Kane no credit here) wanted Joker to be like a gangster at all. Robinson said in an interview a few years ago that at the time they created the Joker the villains were predominantly gangsters, petty crooks, embezzlers etc. They wanted the Joker to be unique. A whole different type of villain;

“All the villains at that time were mostly gangsters, embezzlers and petty crooks. I wanted a villain that was bigger than life to test Batman,” Robinson said. “In shadier characters, it’s always good to have some element in their nature that’s contradictory, so a villain with a sense of humor I thought would be different. And that’s how I came upon the villain and the name of the Joker, and that led to the Joker playing card as the image.”

“I wanted him bizarre and memorable,” he said, “and apparently, I succeeded, because some 70 years later, we’re still talking about him!”

http://newsok.com/article/3790458

Between this latest bit of news about Joker being a business man, and the other recent one about him having some kind of hang up about winning Harley back, the characterization sounds off to me. I hope I'm wrong because I want him to be awesome. I need it to be awesome, because it's the only saving grace for me since I loathe most of the character design. I'm hoping against hope that business man is code for a crazy Joker type of business akin to something like trying to put his face on fish.

 

[Greens]

I loathe most of the character design.

Really? I hadn't noticed

 

[Guts]

I wonder if Without Me is going to be playing in the club scene.

 

[The Shape]

I don't think Jerry Robinson and Bill Finger (I'm giving Bob Kane no credit here) wanted Joker to be like a gangster at all. Robinson said in an interview a few years ago that at the time they created the Joker the villains were predominantly gangsters, petty crooks, embezzlers etc. They wanted the Joker to be unique. A whole different type of villain;



http://newsok.com/article/3790458

Between this latest bit of news about Joker being a business man, and the other recent one about him having some kind of hang up about winning Harley back, the characterization sounds off to me. I hope I'm wrong because I want him to be awesome. I need it to be awesome, because it's the only saving grace for me since I loathe most of the character design.

But The Joker can be unique, bizarre, and memorable while still running a criminal empire. The fact that he has a criminal organization in place doesn't somehow mean he won't be unpredictable, or that he won't possess the characteristics we've come to know and expect from The Joker.

If anything, it sounds like this Joker is perfectly befitting of what Robinson described and he doesn't seem to be anything like a run-of-the-mill gangster.

I'm hoping against hope that business man is code for a crazy Joker type of business akin to something like trying to put his face on fish.

I think it's safe to say nothing like that will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if The Joker has some sick and twisted gags in the film. I'm also expecting his "business" methods to be...unconventional, to say the least.

 

[DeadStroke]

Maybe its me but there is something very Joker/BTAS about his goons.

 

[Guts]

Maybe its me but there is something very Joker/BTAS about his goons.

I see he's conducting some legitimate business at Wayne Enterprises.