The Rise of Skywalker JJ Abrams is Writing and Directing Episode IX

[Sithborg]

Traviss hasn't written anything for Star Wars, I think she was doing Gears of War novels.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I believe her actions appeased the voice in her head, but I don't consider it a weakness on her part. The books never presented there being any way to cast off whatever Palpatine had done to her, and I believe within the context of those books we are meant to believe that it couldn't be undone

We have already been in agreement that killing the clone settle the last command.

I don't see how you can say this isn't a weakness. She has submitted to Palpatine's will. That is not strength. Was Anakin being strong when he submitted to Palpatine? No, he was weak. Mara is weak.

To use the devil analogy (though perhaps I should have said Morgoth as the devil isn't nearly as physically forceful as Palpatine), it was satan torturing someone for five years in the attempt to get them to kill a man, that person refusing and enduring the torture further, and then killing a similar looking man in defence of another and the devil being fooled into believing it was the one he wanted dead. It's an act of heroism on Mara's behalf, a shortsightedness on Palpatine's voice.

Satan isn't physically forceful at all. The devil has no power but to tempt. However, the devil is the correct analogy as he seduces Anakin with words alone, and tries the same with Luke. And Lucas himself refers to Palpatine as Lucifer.

I don't recall anything in the books that showed Mara was being "tortured" by the last command.

And again, killing something with Luke's face fools the devil in her head is just daft. Palpatine is dead, the voice is an echo not a living thing, not even a spirit, and Mara knows it isn't Luke, therefore the voice should know.

And speaking to the actual clone thing, I do think in context of the Trilogy itself it made sense, as clones weren't in and of themselves depicted as the individualistic life forms that Lucas showed them as. The clones in the Thrawn Trilogy were all exact doubles of the original, to such an extent that it caused a feedback in the Force that could only be avoided by Ysalamiri. Mara may have consciously known that the man she had killed was a clone, but given how weird Luuke read to the others in the Force, I think the inadvertent Force-chicanery made sense in how it overcame the last command. In context to the franchise as it exists at this point now, I think it's outdated with the nature of the Force, but I don't fault the story itself for that.

My criticism has nothing to do with what we know now as opposed to what we knew then and nothing to with canon.

My criticism of Mara and the clone fight and voice is about that trilogy.

I think that comes from ESB. Fett had a decent sized role as an effective henchman for Vader with an air of mystery in that, and the fans probably assumed going forward he would be a bigger deal than he was. It was probably a kind of hype that built in those three years before RotJ came out that his ignominious appearance didn't fully dispel. 7 or 8 years later (or whenever he showed up again in the EU material) they kind of got the validation they were looking for when he actually did stuff.

But honestly, at this point I think Fett is just fanservice to that particular range of fans. I wouldn't mind him showing up in an Underworld/crime based film but I don't think he should get a film anymore than say, Darth Maul should.[/QUOTE]

He primary purpose is to sell merchandise. He looks good on t-shirts and and as an action figure.

She walked away from a project that she was originally going to write for Lucasfilm, and to my knowledge she hasn't written anything since.

Okay. That isn't a boycott though -that is just quitting your job.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Traviss hasn't written anything for Star Wars, I think she was doing Gears of War novels.

I'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming from a Lucasfilm related job. I'd sell my ego and whatever they wanted.

 

[Roose Bolton]

We have already been in agreement that killing the clone settle the last command.

I don't see how you can say this isn't a weakness. She has submitted to Palpatine's will. That is not strength. Was Anakin being strong when he submitted to Palpatine? No, he was weak. Mara is weak.

In my opinion she'd only be submitting to Palpatine if she killed Luke Skywalker, and she didn't. I'd only see her as weak if she murdered the actual individual that the last command was intended for, and she didn't. Plus, submission as I perceive it is a conscious choice, Anakin consciously chose to murder the Jedi, whereas we've established that Mara killing Luuke wasn't motivated out of following the last command.

I really don't agree with your view at all, and I suspect I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

Satan isn't physically forceful at all. The devil has no power but to tempt. However, the devil is the correct analogy as he seduces Anakin with words alone, and tries the same with Luke. And Lucas himself refers to Palpatine as Lucifer.

I don't recall anything in the books that showed Mara was being "tortured" by the last command.

Satan can't physically shout in your head every day for five years, it's meant to be a seductive thing. What Palpatine was doing to Mara wasn't at all seductive, it was a voice that haunted her and often distressed and pained her with how forceful and aggressive it was. I consider that to be a torture rather than a seduction, thus I don't believe the satan analogy is fully applicable.

And again, killing something with Luke's face fools the devil in her head is just daft. Palpatine is dead, the voice is an echo not a living thing, not even a spirit, and Mara knows it isn't Luke, therefore the voice should know.

My argument would be that Mara on some level didn't fully differentiate the clone from the genuine article given how Luuke was himself something of an echo within the Force. I follow the reasoning Zahn put in place, and I can buy it. If you can't, I guess that's your issue.

He primary purpose is to sell merchandise. He looks good on t-shirts and and as an action figure.

Which is true of most characters in this franchise.

Okay. That isn't a boycott though -that is just quitting your job.

I don't know that she actively quit in the correct sense of the word. She stepped away from a book project because of her concerns with how Lucas handled Mandalorians and the Fetts, and then after that I think she just refused whatever work they offered her out of some impression that it would get Lucasfilm to change their mind about Fett no longer being Mandalorian. It backfired because they really didn't need her and the whole EU in general got thrown out not too long afterwards.

 

[Sithborg]

I'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming from a Lucasfilm related job. I'd sell my ego and whatever they wanted.

I mean, it was clear that she wasn't a fan of Star Wars.

 

[TheVileOne]

Where, so I can stick Anonymous on something truly important. Are the first two signatures Hayden Christensen and Ahmed Best?!

https://www.change.org/p/disney-george-lucas-back-to-the-star-wars-movies

Change.org is stupid and online petitions are stupid.

 

[batman1]

I mean, it was clear that she wasn't a fan of Star Wars.

I think that is the issue most folks have with her. Her resume is not in question. But there has to be someone involved that is a Star Wars fan. Comic Book movies need a fan who grew up to be a professional film maker and make the type of movies us fans want. She doesn't have a natural instinct for that. In saying that I like all the movies they made so far. But I can see that changing the more they make.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think that is the issue most folks have with her. Her resume is not in question. But there has to be someone involved that is a Star Wars fan. Comic Book movies need a fan who grew up to be a professional film maker and make the type of movies us fans want. She doesn't have a natural instinct for that. In saying that I like all the movies they made so far. But I can see that changing the more they make.

The problem was she hated Star Wars, especially the Jedi and any Force Wielders really. And wrote it as such. To her the Fetts, Clones and Mandalore were all that mattered.

 

[Sithborg]

She didn't have to be a fan. But jesus h crackers, she HATED certain things about the franchise. It is one thing to explore the morality of the Clone army. It is another to just paint all the Jedi as evil fascists slavers. And another to turn the previously believed to be mercenary Mandalorians into this utopian warrior culture that is ALWAYS right. Which is clearly where the friction came along, when George said, no, they're pacifists.

Also, the cherry on top. To have Luke freakin Skywalker to legitimately think and ask himself "What would Boba Fett do?".

I'm just going to go ahead and say, that she is... divisive within the fandom.

 

[terry78]

Some writers can get away with that type of subversive stuff, others can't.

 

[TheVileOne]

I was confused about all this Karen Traviss discussion, then I read this link:

http://www.askajedi.com/2011/05/11/the-mandalorian-mistake/

This was my reaction.

Did Lucasfilm Publishing have any editors or proofreaders at all before the canon reset?

 

[Marvolo]

Karen was a troll of the highest order. She should have been fired from the Legacy of the Force series when she turned in her first manuscript for Bloodlines. Half of that books is Bobba Fett BS. Just a Mando wankfest.

 

[Sithborg]

See, Bloodlines was actually good. It was Sacrifice and Revelations where her mando fanwank went overboard.

 

[TheVileOne]

Karen was a troll of the highest order. She should have been fired from the Legacy of the Force series when she turned in her first manuscript for Bloodlines. Half of that books is Bobba Fett BS. Just a Mando wankfest.

Maybe that sold well with fans who enjoy Mando wankfests?

 

[Sithborg]

I mean, she clearly had her fans. They did not take Lucas' vision too well.

 

[TheVileOne]

I got to imagine on some level before new movies were made and the Disney purchase, the publishing division just didn't really care all that much on the content of the stories that were published and how certain things didn't make sense. Did they basically just let the EU writers do whatever they want?

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I know this is kinda off topic, but did they ever decide what was gonna be canon? Are Jango and Boba Mandalorian or not? I know Lucas came out and said they weren't, and they danced around it in Clone Wars. Did someone ever make up their damn minds?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I know this is kinda off topic, but did they ever decide what was gonna be canon? Are Jango and Boba Mandalorian or not? I know Lucas came out and said they weren't, and they danced around it in Clone Wars. Did someone ever make up their damn minds?

In canon right now, nothing has changed. They aren't Mandos unless they decide to make them so.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

In canon right now, nothing has changed. They aren't Mandos unless they decide to make them so.

Ok, so right now they're just bad ass bounty hunters running around in some jacked ass Mando armor. Cool. Like I said...Clone Wars seemed to dance around the subject, and the last I had read Filoni had specifically said they weren't, but he also said Lucas kept changing his mind about it. He made it sound like one day he wanted it clarified they were and a few days later they weren't. Working with Lucas would have driven me ****ing insane.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ok, so right now they're just bad ass bounty hunters running around in some jacked ass Mando armor. Cool. Like I said...Clone Wars seemed to dance around the subject, and the last I had read Filoni had specifically said they weren't, but he also said Lucas kept changing his mind about it. He made it sound like one day he wanted it clarified they were and a few days later they weren't. Working with Lucas would have driven me ****ing insane.

Since the sale Filoni and Pablo have both said they aren't Mandos. But I guess we won't know definitively until a Boba Fett movie.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Since the sale Filoni and Pablo have both said they aren't Mandos. But I guess we won't know definitively until a Boba Fett movie.

We're gonna find out the porgs are the true Mandalorians.

 

[vinsanity]

Loved JJ's camera work in Force Awakens

 

[I Am The Knight]

We're gonna find out the porgs are the true Mandalorians.

The Porgs will bring balance to the Force.

 

[TheVileOne]

Since the sale Filoni and Pablo have both said they aren't Mandos. But I guess we won't know definitively until a Boba Fett movie.

Meh, this is dumb.

Just like connecting the Fett family to the Clone army and making Boba Fett into a little kid.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

https://www.change.org/p/disney-george-lucas-back-to-the-star-wars-movies

Change.org is stupid and online petitions are stupid.

Wow...damn Vile... you didn't think I was serious did you? And if you knew I was joking, you certainly didn't have to go find the actual petition.