The Rise of Skywalker JJ Abrams is Writing and Directing Episode IX

[I Am The Knight]

But Rogue One sucked. TFA was good and well made, but there's not much there to take away from it. Even if TLJ is great, it's all gonna be undone by the cluster**** Han Solo film, the ROTFA 2.0 of 9, the Obi-Wan, their Boba Fett movie and the endless stream of stuff I've seen before. Disney likes safe and sure bets. Basically, TLJ has to truly be on another level. Johnson has to bring it like no one's ever brought it before.

 

[batman1]

I swear... I will NEVER understand what about an internet message board causes people to become so violent and hateful. Without sounding like TOO much of a prick, I think it's absolutely ****ing hilarious.

Lol. What you said. I post how I feel but it's never over the top. And we're all obviously comic/fantasy/sci fi fans.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Except it's not a mistake or two where they learn and actually fix the problem in the right way. Everything so far has just been them doubling down on what works. When there's a problem, let's resort back to the safe and familiar. From the story choices to the filmmakers (again with the exception of Johnson) It's not like TIH (which is a good movie, they just missed the target by a few inches), Terrence Howard, Norton situation. There's a real fundamental pattern here. And we're gonna keep coming back and coming back years from now making the same excuses. The truth is, a cinematic universe it a lot more difficult than people think.

At this point, I don't think anything is going to turn people away from this SW who have loved these past two movies. I think if there's a second Starkiller Base in Ep. 9 people will make excuses for it. "This trilogy wasn't supposed to be risky anyway, this trilogy was meant to get SW back on track! Now in the next trilogy we can be risky!" Sound familiar? It will never end. Because the sad truth is they get away with this because they make movies that function. They have a formula figured out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[Doctor Jones]

Well, I disagree about Rogue One, but I respect that we all have our own opinions. It's actually funny how much I agree with you. I thought the point of the side stories was for us to get something completely unique just set in the SW universe. So far, we haven't gotten that. I'm kinda hoping once they've exhausted the standard fare, that's what we'll begin to see with the "Star Wars Stories". As far as the canon sequels, I DO WANT a sense of continuity through those, aesthetic included. I hope you get what you're looking for with TLJ. Johnson is such a dark horse it's very hard to know what we're getting. Honestly, Hammill's statement that he disagreed with everything that Johnson had done with Luke originally has me beyond excited in a good way. I just have a feeling that Hammill was expecting standard Luke fare, and it sounds like that may have gotten very shaken up. That, to me, is SO exciting. And I get that you feel JJ was the safe choice, but even he had issues behind the scenes. It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, and if you felt TFA was just a basic retread, I won't disagree, but I feel like that's EXACTLY what the series needed at that time. After the prequels and the bad taste most people had in their mouths, I think giving people the fan service they wanted was exactly what the public needed to get behind SW again. Now, I think they can really delve into the story they wanted to tell all along. Is it a shame they had to kinda waste a movie to get that done? Sure, but I feel like they got enough moments in TFA to move it along just enough with Han's death, Kylo's revelation, Rey's awakening, and the realization of what happened to the academy. It was enough...just so, but it was enough. Like I said, it's funny how much we actually agree, but I'm coming into the next one with a positive attitude. It just feels like you're coming into it very skeptical. All we can do is hope I'm right, and your fears were all for nothing.

First off, thank you for understanding my views, even if we disagree somewhat. I'm not trying to come in here and argue with people and try to win arguments. I'd just like people to understand me and not label me a troll.

With regards to the spin offs, I honestly don't think we're gonna get those different movies. Besides that they're gonna just be the same characters we've seen before, they'll just be the same Disney even toned action adventure genre. They'll just Rogue One it. SW has found its footing already and knows what it wants. It wants to be safe and not piss people off. A lot of it works out of fear. In general with SW, I'm tired of people saying, "We'll get the different stuff next time!" A) I think that's just making excuses and B) why the hell can't we get them now? This is SW. You can make a movie about Chewbacca taking a dump and it will still be a smash success. So take a ****ing chance. If it sucks, they'll still make their money back. Alienating the fans is ******** to me. I'm at that point where you should just betray them if that means making a great movie that breaks the rules. What do you think Empire did? It took everything you loved about ANH and said, "Nope." SW needs to be rewritten and that time is now. Not later. People needn't be so afraid to repeat the PT. Don't blame the process, blame the filmmaker. Its heart was in the right place, but it failed execution wise. Now take that heart with talented people and apply it. Disney has every imaginable resource and no excuses to make this work. Enough isn't great. Enough is just enough. And we can do so much better. Don't settle, go bigger. What I wanted TFA to do is what I expect out of the best SW movies. Have a great story with great characters that is imaginative. We got one of those things. All the exciting stuff was just character based. Everything else... is just enough I guess. SW carries the illusion that it's back because it has surface level things that you recognize that you know of SW already, with the exception of the characters in TFA and some ideas.

The statements made about TLJ give me hope. I like what Hamill said about Luke too. But I'm just afraid the whole arc will be Luke realizing that they will always need the Jedi and it will go back to the same status quo. Like I'm saying, the status quo needs to be changed. I'm not saying don't have Jedi, but it would be exciting to see a new representation of the force. Maybe that can be Rey. But I'm skeptical.

In my fantasy world for TLJ, Luke turns evil (if not play with it) Rey is a botched clone of Luke that came from the DNA in his hand, Poe is killed, Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren forge their own path in the force that's very new along with Rey who joins him after seeing he was right, the First Order was a huge smokescreen for Snoke and ala The Winer Soldier, it all goes down so we can get rid of all the damn Empire aesthetic, and we know his true plan and where he comes from, Luke is trapped in between The Force like Cooper in the Black Lodge, the Resistance is no longer the Resistance. The idea of the New Republic being the new status quo was something that should have remained.

I'm not saying these things needs to happen (though that'd be nice!). It's just illustrating my point. I won't come down on the movie if these things won't happen, I'll judge it on its own merits, but my point is I'd like to see stuff like this!

 

[Marvolo]

Disney doubling down on what is good and seems to please general audiences and critics...what a bunch of dumbasses.

 

[writer0327]

Maybe I'm wrong and if I'm presuming too much and using you as an example, sorry, but this reads to me as you're already settling and adjusted your expectations. You have made up your mind. You're convincing yourself that everything is fine when there's deeper problems behind all of this. And it goes way beyond, "Abrams is a better fit than Trevorrow, they fixed the problem!" But they haven't. If anything, this is just a reaffirmation of the problems they've already been having, which means they haven't fixed the real problems. Abrams being hired seems to be more accepted across the board because it's based on what we had before and what we avoided than doing better. I have a feeling this thinking will carry over into the movie and people will love it no matter what.

What it takes for people to admit to the fundamental flaws for these new SW movie I just don't know. I think this is a case of people who already love them will continue to love them and the same for the people who don't. The problem is both think they're right. I don't have a problem with people enjoying them, my problem is how people can't acknowledge the flaws to these and pretend how everything is just fine and Disney is doing a bang up job. Where things can meet in the middle is how one can enjoy something while being critical of it. It seems people can't have both because it's some defeat, or it's another disappointment that the prequels left them. It's like how people who say the prequels are great, flawless movies and won't listen to the substantive criticisms of them. The same thing is happening here for different reasons.

I accept flaws as a part of film making. Its all "eye of the beholder" type stuff.

I haven't settled on my opinion of what IX will be, I haven't seen TLJ yet. But my position is how risky do we really want the last chapter of a triligy to be? Abrams is safe and smart and in the final chapter they need to sew things up, not create upheaval. Since 2015, 2 things have become abundantly clear when it comes to SW:

1. LF has a specific vision of what SW should be...
2. They are willing to take only the most calculated of risks...

And inside of that narrow box, we will get films. Honestly, I do want to enjoy SW films, but I too want to see some risks taken. But I want them to be good, creative risks, not risks for the sake of it. However in the last chapter of a series, you have to tie things up, so in that regards, I have no problem with JJ.

 

[writer0327]

Disney doubling down on what is good and seems to please general audiences and critics...what a bunch of dumbasses.

Now, now, now....SW as a franchise was born from a spirit of risky filmmaking and creative dexterity. It's a fair criticism of LF's approach.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Except it's not a mistake or two where they learn and actually fix the problem in the right way. Everything so far has just been them doubling down on what works. When there's a problem, let's resort back to the safe and familiar. From the story choices to the filmmakers (again with the exception of Johnson) It's not like TIH (which is a good movie, they just missed the target by a few inches), Terrence Howard, Norton situation. There's a real fundamental pattern here. And we're gonna keep coming back and coming back years from now making the same excuses. The truth is, a cinematic universe it a lot more difficult than people think.

At this point, I don't think anything is going to turn people away from this SW who have loved these past two movies. I think if there's a second Starkiller Base in Ep. 9 people will make excuses for it. "This trilogy wasn't supposed to be risky anyway, this trilogy was meant to get SW back on track! Now in the next trilogy we can be risky!" Sound familiar? It will never end. Because the sad truth is they get away with this because they make movies that function. They have a formula figured out.

Ok...if we get another ****ing Starkiller Base/Death Star, I'll ****ing picket with you.

 

[Marvolo]

Now, now, now....SW as a franchise was born from a spirit of risky filmmaking and creative dexterity. It's a fair criticism of LF's approach.

I know risk and creative dexterity belongs in star wars. Disney took risks. A black actor playing a former stormtrooper as a hero. The leading character being a strong very capable young woman. Another main new character is played by a Guatemalan American actor. They killed off one of the most popular and famous characters in the franchise. The character many fans were most excited to see only having 30 seconds of screen time and no dialogue. The main villain is a young emotionally vulnerable character. No Jedi. No Sith. Leia doesnt show up until the third act. No real background info on the main character. We dont even know if Rey is her real name. The New Republic is destroyed in the second act of the first film of the trilogy.

All of these things were risky for one reason or another. JJ and Disney infused the film with familiar elements but they definitely took risks. Risks that could have and did piss off fans. Risks that could have and did piss off some general audiences. Risks that could have caused PR trouble. Risks that could have backed later films and directors into corners.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

First off, thank you for understanding my views, even if we disagree somewhat. I'm not trying to come in here and argue with people and try to win arguments. I'd just like people to understand me and not label me a troll.

Of course, buddy. We're here to discuss and compare. I don't think you're trolling at all if it makes you feel better.

Now, as far as your wish list...I couldn't possibly hope you're more wrong. Haha I don't want Luke to go bad. What I want them to explore are the, what are they...like...dark Jedi? Basically the people that were force sensitive, but they didn't bottle themselves into Jedi or Sith thinking. I want them to realize the balance has nothing to do with Sith or Jedi. I want them to realize that the balance is more to do with individual people. A balance within themselves. I want them to explore the light/dark side in individual characters. To me, that would be far more interesting, but I do hope this is this trilogy's Empire.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Disney doubling down on what is good and seems to please general audiences and critics...what a bunch of dumbasses.

They should do like Zack Snyder and double down on the things people DON'T want

Except it's not a mistake or two where they learn and actually fix the problem in the right way. Everything so far has just been them doubling down on what works. When there's a problem, let's resort back to the safe and familiar. From the story choices to the filmmakers (again with the exception of Johnson) It's not like TIH (which is a good movie, they just missed the target by a few inches), Terrence Howard, Norton situation. There's a real fundamental pattern here. And we're gonna keep coming back and coming back years from now making the same excuses. The truth is, a cinematic universe it a lot more difficult than people think.

At this point, I don't think anything is going to turn people away from this SW who have loved these past two movies. I think if there's a second Starkiller Base in Ep. 9 people will make excuses for it. "This trilogy wasn't supposed to be risky anyway, this trilogy was meant to get SW back on track! Now in the next trilogy we can be risky!" Sound familiar? It will never end. Because the sad truth is they get away with this because they make movies that function. They have a formula figured out.

Two words.

[BLACKOUT]Ring theory [/BLACKOUT]

In my fantasy world for TLJ, Luke turns evil (if not play with it) Rey is a botched clone of Luke that came from the DNA in his hand, Poe is killed, Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren forge their own path in the force that's very new along with Rey who joins him after seeing he was right, the First Order was a huge smokescreen for Snoke and ala The Winer Soldier, it all goes down so we can get rid of all the damn Empire aesthetic, and we know his true plan and where he comes from, Luke is trapped in between The Force like Cooper in the Black Lodge, the Resistance is no longer the Resistance. The idea of the New Republic being the new status quo was something that should have remained.

No offense but...Yuck.

Reading your posts I think you are really jumping the gun here and getting too hung up on superficial aspects. TFA was both familiar and new. So was Rogue One. I, too want to see a bit more shakeup but TLJ might just be the film that does that. George wanted it all to rhyme anyway so...

 

[Iceman]

Listen, I've been saying TLJ could be the one to make me wrong. And it still could be a great movie that changes things and is what I'd like this franchise to finally be. The aesthetic still annoys me at times, but I do really appreciate some of the new stuff (the island "nuns" and Porgs are great! I appreciate Snoke's gold robe). From what I've seen design wise, it looks like Johnson wants to do something different, but is stuck in OT aesthetic by Disney. I still have some skepticism based on what's come before and what we've heard behind the scenes), but there also isn't enough for that for me to really to give me confidence that this is going to be the different and great movie. I've been told it, but I haven't seen it. And based on what we got so far, it's got more going against those chances of it being something unique. But Johnson is such a strange factor I can't help but hold out hope. That teaser was fine, but it just kind of looked like TFA. I get it's a teaser and the visual consistency, but in terms of aesthetic and feel. This next trailer could tell me a lot more. Or not. Disney usually advertises what you get. I want to be wrong here, but it's not my fault I keep seeing this stuff that isn't doing that.

But Rogue One sucked. TFA was good and well made, but there's not much there to take away from it. Even if TLJ is great, it's all gonna be undone by the cluster**** Han Solo film, the ROTFA 2.0 of 9, the Obi-Wan, their Boba Fett movie and the endless stream of stuff I've seen before. Disney likes safe and sure bets. Basically, TLJ has to truly be on another level. Johnson has to bring it like no one's ever brought it before.

For me the spinoffs failing wouldn't ruin TLJ being great. Episode films come first for me. Not to say I'm not really excited for the spinoffs, but it's a similar thing to how TPM doesn't ruin the original films for me.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

For me the spinoffs failing wouldn't ruin TLJ being great. Episode films come first for me. Not to say I'm not really excited for the spinoffs, but it's a similar thing to how TPM doesn't ruin the original films for me.

Like I said. I think we may get those shake ups from the Star Wars Story movies, but only after they've made it through all the completely safe and basic films first. Basically once they get through all the Obi Want and the Fetts...maybe then we'll get to see young Yoda become a Jedi or some Old Republic type stories that we're all hoping for.

 

[Iceman]

Like I said. I think we may get those shake ups from the Star Wars Story movies, but only after they've made it through all the completely safe and basic films first. Basically once they get through all the Obi Want and the Fetts...maybe then we'll get to see young Yoda become a Jedi or some Old Republic type stories that we're all hoping for.

I'm interested in pretty much anything and everything at the moment. It's a new concept that we can think about getting films covering the history and wider SW universe outside of Episode films and I'm pretty much interested in whatever they can throw at me, as long as it's well executed.

 

[writer0327]

I know risk and creative dexterity belongs in star wars. Disney took risks. A black actor playing a former stormtrooper as a hero. The leading character being a strong very capable young woman. Another main new character is played by a Guatemalan American actor. They killed off one of the most popular and famous characters in the franchise. The character many fans were most excited to see only having 30 seconds of screen time and no dialogue. The main villain is a young emotionally vulnerable character. No Jedi. No Sith. Leia doesnt show up until the third act. No real background info on the main character. We dont even know if Rey is her real name. The New Republic is destroyed in the second act of the first film of the trilogy.

All of these things were risky for one reason or another. JJ and Disney infused the film with familiar elements but they definitely took risks. Risks that could have and did piss off fans. Risks that could have and did piss off some general audiences. Risks that could have caused PR trouble. Risks that could have backed later films and directors into corners.

I was more or less responding to the snark lol. But yes you're correct. All true, but those are mostly calculated risks and they worked. Still, the criticisms are fair.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When ever Doctor Jones claims it is just about understanding his views or he isn't trying to win arguments I always remember him actually getting mad at people for enjoying this past Celebration. He is here to do battle over these movies, and I don't know why.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I was more or less responding to the snark lol. But yes you're correct. All true, but those are mostly calculated risks and they worked. Still, the criticisms are fair.

It's actually interesting, because Lucas became way less about risk or daring storytelling as the series went on. His prequels, beyond being poorly made imo, were super risk adverse.

Rogue One ending with killing off the entire team was riskier then the entire prequels. Lucas never had the heart to kill Han.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I'm interested in pretty much anything and everything at the moment. It's a new concept that we can think about getting films covering the history and wider SW universe outside of Episode films and I'm pretty much interested in whatever they can throw at me, as long as it's well executed.

Oh believe me...if it's SW related, I'm gonna watch it. I just really want to see them stretch the property the way the EU did.

 

[Iceman]

Oh believe me...if it's SW related, I'm gonna watch it. I just really want to see them stretch the property the way the EU did.

Sure, makes sense. I don't have any experience of the EU despite a lot of interest. I've only just binge-watched CW and Rebels this month and looking into getting much deeper into everything (have had a tonne of recommendations from the guys here).

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Sure, makes sense. I don't have any experience of the EU despite a lot of interest. I've only just binge-watched CW and Rebels this month and looking into getting much deeper into everything (have had a tonne of recommendations from the guys here).

Man, the EU was great. If there was ANY facet of the SW universe you were interested in, the EU PROBABLY explored it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For me the EU became something so vast and full of mediocre to worse material. But you had those golden nuggets that were just so much fun to enjoy. That being said, outside of the books, I am enjoying the canon material more then anything that wasn't the OT before the switch.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

For me the EU became something so vast and full of mediocre to worse material. But you had those golden nuggets that were just so much fun to enjoy.

There were more turds than not for sure, but the ones that were good, were SO GOOD.

 

[Iceman]

Man, the EU was great. If there was ANY facet of the SW universe you were interested in, the EU PROBABLY explored it.

I'm up for consuming everything that cones out going forward in books, comics, shows and games, as well as the films of course. Plus I have a big list of stuff to catch up on. My body is ready lol.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I'm up for consuming everything that cones out going forward in books, comics, shows and games, as well as the films of course. Plus I have a big list of stuff to catch up on. My body is ready lol.

As far as the new canon my favorite book so far has been Lords of the Sith. The only other one I haven't read yet that I REALLY want to is Dark Disciple. It sounds so good.