TheVileOne
Eternal
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You shouldn't have to read a novel or book to understand what's going on in a movie.
They can't.I can't even count how many great pitchs trying to fix this trilogy after TLJ I've read.
It is not a matter of time, just a lack of ideas and a lack of self-awareness. Why fans can come up with better stories than the people who get paid for it?
For all the crap Abrams gets, I don't think he had malicious intentions, and he was not put in the best situation to succeed on all cylinders. Do I think he had some misguided notions and made some bad decisions? Yes. I think he tried too hard to please everybody and make sure everyone was happy. But I some criticisms are warranted, but some are just going too far.
Might be wrong, but from what I've heard he thought he was going to be the 'male lead' or 'hero'...apparently Abrams told him:
'You are going to be the new star of Star Wars.'
But that was Rey.
TBH, I really don't know what is going on in Boyega's mind at the moment. Comments he made post TROS on social media seemed to hint that he had wanted a Finn/Rey romance, but he could have simply been extracting the urine. A few things I DO know, however:
He wanted FS Finn. Apparently he was disappointed that they didn't make him FS from the start after the main poster for TFA showed him with a lightsabre.
He is very good friends with Daisy, and didn't like working on TLJ as much as TFA/TROS because they didn't work together much.
Those are the only problems I know for sure that he had with the films, but regarding Abrams, the man is his friend, so this is probably why he's defending him.
I suspect JB wanted the amount of attention AD got from the audience and critics, and was peeved that he didn't get it. But in any case, he had far more screen time than AD - but not as much as Rey.
The ST was Rey Palpatine's story, and everyone else was there just to pad out her adventures.
This makes no sense. JJ Abrams hired him personally. Are you saying they didn't have discussions about this character and his basic backstory and their hopes for the role at the outset?
Basically from your explanation you are basically suggesting John Boyega saw a poster and suddenly thought, "Wait a minute! I get the lightsaber! My boss and director JJ Abrams is keeping the subplot that Finn is becoming the ultimate Jedi hidden from me! This must mean I will wield the lightsaber and eventually become a Jedi in this franchise! Hells yeah!"
If he was disappointed he wasn't a Force user from the start, then that's on JJ Abrams, is it not? Did Disney, Alan Horn, and Kathleen Kennedy go up to Abrams and say, "You can't make this character a Jedi Force user! Racist audiences will reject it!"
OK so what? This is a sci-fi fantasy story. They can't team up all the time. Heroes get separated and splintered in these action-adventure stories. Luke is away from the main group for most of Empire Strikes Back after they get off Hoth. If he's unhappy about that, wouldn't his major contention be against Rian Johnson, someone I've never heard him criticize or rail against at all.
This is why I find some of his complaints hollow and lacking in a lot of sensical, factual basis.
Is the issue here that Adam Driver ultimately got the focused romance with Rey, and while the first film set up a potential romance between Finn and Rey, the movies never went there? Did Finn want to be the one defeating Palpatine with Rey at the end instead of Kylo? Again, that's on Chris Terrio and JJ Abrams if he's upset about that, and yet he's gone out of his way to constantly defend Abrams.
I think Boyega was pretty clear with his criticism. He describes a number of experiences that made him feel like his race was an issue, down to relatively trivial things like having a stylist who didn't know how to work with his hair. Mostly his frustration was with Disney casting diverse for social currency, but not following through with important roles for those characters. Not just him and his character, but with Poe and Rose too. I think he is correct. This trilogy is going to age poorly in terms of diversity; with thin roles for its non-white cast and a female lead constantly defined by male counterparts.
Is this all a racism issue? Kind of, yes. I don't want to speak for others and it's naturally a very touchy subject. The problem with identifying prejudice is that it is sometimes a completely passive act. I love TLJ and think it's the only real arc Finn ever gets. I think Rian Johnson did what any decent writer would do with Finn; he identified a character flaw and built a story around overcoming that flaw. I don't think it was ever Johnson's intention to 'demote' Finn or harm that character, but once TLJ is done and edited down, Finn just didn't get a whole lot or worth. In the end, your black co-lead has lost out, accidentally or not.
I think it's crazy to lay the blame at one director's feet, especially when the other director did 2/3s of this story. To me, Finn was botched from inception. His character should never have been a cowardly goofball, that was already wasting him. I don't read much into Boyega's seeming defense of Abrams, as it was in the wake of TROS, and he has an understandable bias for the guy who hired him. I would assume Boyega has reason to blame Disney. I bet he has a different view of their decisions. He was front of center of TFA marketing, in some countries at least, receiving all the backlash from racists when Star Wars was white hot. It must have been incredibly disheartening to feel like Disney were shying away from him after all of that. They never cared about his race, just his demographic.
Yeah I think what a lot of it comes down to is Finn was put front and center in the marketing for TFA, he's on the poster holding a lightsaber. But that was a misdirect, as TFA clearly establishes Rey as the force sensitive protagonist.
I think Finn's arc in TLJ works alright, but yeah...I mean nothing Finn gets to do is anywhere near as interesting as what Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver got to do. Same goes for Oscar Isaac. But again, I mean...the same could be said for Luke vs. Han and Leia in the original trilogy. That's just kind of how it goes. The Jedi character gets the juicy lore stuff. I think Boyega's frustration is stemming from a lot of places. Race is definitely a big factor, because the optics of it don't look good when you've dangled the carrot of a black lead with possible Jedi potential and then it's pulled away. I also think he just came into it as a Star Wars fan, and wanted to be more directly involved with the more mythological aspects of the story.
To be fair though, I never got the vibe that Finn was supposed to be the next Jedi. His chemistry with Ford in TFA was great, and with him being a more comedic character with a shady past and a heart of gold... it felt like he was kind of being setup as the next Han. So I don't blame Rian Johnson for basing his decisions on what the actual content of TFA was, rather than what the marketing led with. I think he continued the story in a way that made sense, especially considering Finn was left in a coma at the end of TFA with Rey already on an island with Luke. His character's progression felt consistent. He cared more about protecting Rey than he felt any loyalty to the Resistance. I think that's inarguable based on what is actually shown in TFA.
@TheVileOne
He hasn't really avoided criticizing Rian Johnson. He made a bunch of headlines for bashing TLJ during the press for TROS. And he flat out said he didn't agree with a lot of Rian's decisions. In an industry where people usually just play nice and say every director they work with is brilliant to the press, that alone was kind of big.
Now if you were to read between the lines, yeah-- I think he saw a budding romance with Finn and Rey, and probably didn't appreciate his character being paired off with Rose in the second film. In other words, "Let's put the two POC characters together cause it's now the Rey and Kylo show". I think it's pretty clear that's factoring into his feelings somehow based on his comments about how Daisy and Adam had all the best material. I also think just from a personal standpoint he was bummed to not get to work with Daisy much at all on the second film. But it's also awkward because he obviously has to have KMT's back too in the whole situation after what she went through. It's a mess.
As far as implying Rian was being casually racist...idk, sometimes it does feel like he's implying that. But I don't think he'd outright say it. Probably just easier to blame a big corporation than start an awkward beef with a specific director who's pretty beloved by a lot of Film Twitter. I mean, it's awkward enough that he was openly ripping TLJ.
I am not endorsing any of these viewpoints btw. Just doing my best to wrap my head around how he sees it and why he is frustrated with how things went.
Those criticisms have never been clear at all from Boyega.
If he believes Rian Johnson was being passively racist toward his character and his character arc, he's never actually said that at all, and he's never actually criticized Rian Johnson himself, at least to my knowledge.
As for the hair stylist stuff, no idea. Not sure what happened behind close doors with hair and makeup people. And if the hair stylists aren't sensitive to issues like that, no idea.
However at the same time, I find it hard to believe Boyega never made his concerns known to his agent or manager or Disney HR to get the issue taken care of.
If he was botched from the inception, then a large part of the blame is at the feet of JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan. And Abrams is the person Boyega appears to go out of his way to constantly defend and deflect from criticism.
I don't see how Disney was shying away from defending and supporting Boyega at that time. All this seems a little fugazi if you ask me.
Now removing or shrinking Boyega's image for the marketing posts, that's a more valid criticism I can understand. I'm not sure if he's even mentioned that publicly though. I know others have, but I haven't seen that from Boyega.
Is that really a misdirect? Rey is just as front and center in the marketing and it's clear from the trailers she's an important character and likely a Force wielder in the story as well. Finn did use the lightsaber in the film multiple times, so that's technically not a misdirect IMO.
Rey being a force user and wielding the lightsaber were deliberately kept out of the marketing before the film opened. Finn was the only one ever shown with the sabre in the trailers and posters, whereas Rey was only ever shown with her staff. There was some subterfuge there, to make Rey force-grabbing the sabre away from Kylo into a big moment. Of course it was obvious from the get-go that Rey was the Luke analog so especially in hindsight it feels very unnecessary. Just Abrams mystery boxing once again.
People are acting like Disney gaslit Boyega with the marketing campaign and tricked Boyega into believing he was becoming a Jedi.