Comics JMS off Amazing

[kainedamo]

A character is only as good as the writing.

So if Joe Q's staff have a problem with writing her (which I'm not sure they do, could all be bull****), then maybe their quality of writing should be called into question rather than the quality of the character.

It's been shown before that MJ shines as a character when used properly.

 

[dan1]

I still don't understand why Joey Q is so fixated on MJ being the problem. I mean sure the books have had there fair share of problems but not once have I really heard fans associate MJ with the problem. MJ had nothing to do with "The Other" or "Sins Past" and so on. Those were just horribly thought up stories.

He's fixated on it, because she's the good ol' scapegoat for him.

JoeQ is not creative anymore. He's a politician in the businessworld.

He must find a reason for failure that lies far away from him.

 

[farmernudie]

There have been lots of complaints and lots of threads...all involving OTHER things wrong with Spidey...and not MJ.

Sure there have a been a few stray remarks here and there...but overall i think the majority of the readers like MJ and associate her with Spidey.

Joey Q. has no desire to "deal" with the real "problems"....he jsut wants to write big publicity stunt kinda stories that will make the headlines....."gwen was trampy"...."spidey reveals himself to the public"......"spider-man eats someones eyes out!"....."MJ run over by a semitruck/or the Rhino and KILLED"....

He goes for shock and awe......but, IGNORES continuity.....

His way of "fixing" so called problems is like a bull in a china shop.

I'm sorry, but it is true.

He is taking us in circles....storywise. We are not moving forward. We have to read this sorry state of spidey and then re-read eventual retconned storys that bring us back to the beginning basically before all the changes and amazingly exciting restructures of "fixing". (sarcasm)

Can't wait to read future storys bringing MJ or aunt may back AGAIN AND AGAIN. Reintroducing them to his life and giving us some dippy explanation why they REALLY were gone for awhile.

And...It's not like i've not already read the WEDDING ISSUE....and all the issues of them dating that led up to it. Let's not have to be forced to read it again when they suddenly realize MJ and pete should be remarried again. Oy.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Wow, Shin...you and I are suddenly not so alone in thought these days.

 

[shinlyle]

Wow, Shin...you and I are suddenly not so alone in thought these days.

I know, right?t:

 

[Doc Destruction]

Hell I remember when you and I would get kicked around for criticizing JMS' hack writing. Ah, to be right...so so right.

 

[Kevin]

*sigh*

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

There have been lots of complaints and lots of threads...all involving OTHER things wrong with Spidey...and not MJ.

Sure there have a been a few stray remarks here and there...but overall i think the majority of the readers like MJ and associate her with Spidey.

Joey Q. has no desire to "deal" with the real "problems"....he jsut wants to write big publicity stunt kinda stories that will make the headlines....."gwen was trampy"...."spidey reveals himself to the public"......"spider-man eats someones eyes out!"....."MJ run over by a semitruck/or the Rhino and KILLED"....

He goes for shock and awe......but, IGNORES continuity.....

His way of "fixing" so called problems is like a bull in a china shop.

I'm sorry, but it is true.

He is taking us in circles....storywise. We are not moving forward. We have to read this sorry state of spidey and then re-read eventual retconned storys that bring us back to the beginning basically before all the changes and amazingly exciting restructures of "fixing". (sarcasm)

Can't wait to read future storys bringing MJ or aunt may back AGAIN AND AGAIN. Reintroducing them to his life and giving us some dippy explanation why they REALLY were gone for awhile.

And...It's not like i've not already read the WEDDING ISSUE....and all the issues of them dating that led up to it. Let's not have to be forced to read it again when they suddenly realize MJ and pete should be remarried again. Oy.

That's it exactly.
I'd call for Joey Q's neutering... if I actually imagined there was anything to cut off.

 

[Redwoods Wolf]

So, the real question is...can Spidey be fixed? Or is it better to mercy-kill?

I mean, I'm all in favor if we can restore (not restart, that's important) Spider-Man to a good state. But ever since the Clone Saga it seems like Spidey has just been on a flushing spiral of death. I mean, it's pretty sad when a knock-off of the original is more entertaining than the original (USM, that is).

What, besides the obvious firing of JQ and JMS, needs to be done to fix Spider-Man?

 

[Spade]

So, the real question is...can Spidey be fixed? Or is it better to mercy-kill?

I mean, I'm all in favor if we can restore (not restart, that's important) Spider-Man to a good state. But ever since the Clone Saga it seems like Spidey has just been on a flushing spiral of death. I mean, it's pretty sad when a knock-off of the original is more entertaining than the original (USM, that is).

What, besides the obvious firing of JQ and JMS, needs to be done to fix Spider-Man?

We don't need a restart. We just need a reaffirming of some basic principles:

1. The reinstatement of the supporting cast (with possible reinstatement of Peter's Bugle job; if this conflicts with character progress, introduction of supporting cast through Peter's current teaching position).

2. The reinstatement of Peter's secret identity.

3. The removal of all supernatural hobnobbery from the origin (including but not limited to the stupid powers ascertained by Peter during 'The Other: Evolve or Die').

4. A lack of acknowledgement to the controversial storylines succeeding The Book of Ezekiel storyline arc (not an actual retcon, just a lack of acknowledgement such as what has been done with the events of the Clone Saga).

5. The reinstatement of the classic uniform with no additional 'tweaks' or so-called 'improvements' in terms of gadgetry beyond the occasional Peter invention (nothing nearly as drastic and useless as the Iron Spidey getup).

6. An invigoration (without stagnation) and protection of the 'Spider-Marriage'.

7. The development of new storylines that involve the plethora of characters gone unused during JMS' run, as well as the introduction of new characters designs for more purpose than that of a gimmick endorsement.

8. The omission of Morlun as a possible recurring character or as a 'hive mind/ horde' from the rogue gallery entirely.

I only came up with eight, but there are many other things that can be done.

 

[dan1]

Hell I remember when you and I would get kicked around for criticizing JMS' hack writing. Ah, to be right...so so right.

Hey Doc, I've been criticizing JMS' hack writing for years now, Highlander rip etc.

Just as long as you guys have

Matter of fact, the purposful attempt at shunning the clone saga, example, the Ezekial teamup against Morlun, was my initial red-flag; and that was when he was being praised to death (I think his 3rd issue).

Ignore the Clone Saga if you want, but to re-write personalities to pretend it didn't happen showed me he was willing to take that attitude to the extreme. That is so Taboo for Spider-Man comics that it isn't funny.

anyway, he is definitely a Spider-Man hack. Didn't continue any sub plots or supporting characters once he came on board. And ripped off other writers and ripped UP past gems to suit his lame-a*s needs.

 

[shinlyle]

Hell I remember when you and I would get kicked around for criticizing JMS' hack writing. Ah, to be right...so so right.

I know....those times when you, I, Larry Legend, and the rest of the gang would get bombarded for DARING to criticize the man who had "reinvigorated" the title. Now, after crappy arc after crappy arc, it would seem that those vouces grow somewhat silent. Maybe it's because of the past 20-30 issues beign crappy, maybe it's because of his managing to ruin what Waid and 'Ringo accomplished on Fantastic Four, who knows?

Either way, this is one of those times when I would have liked to have been proven wrong....I would have preferred that JMS pulled one out of his sleeve and shown that these were all the mechinations of Mysterio, who faked his death in front of Daredevil as an elaborate plot to get back at his arch-nemesis before dying (for real, this time) of the cancer that has been eating him alive.

Ah...for a writer to be that creative on the Spider-Man books.....oh, wait, we do have SSM.

 

[kainedamo]

Hey Doc, I've been criticizing JMS' hack writing for years now, Highlander rip etc.

Just as long as you guys have

Matter of fact, the purposful attempt at shunning the clone saga, example, the Ezekial teamup against Morlun, was my initial red-flag; and that was when he was being praised to death (I think his 3rd issue).

Ignore the Clone Saga if you want, but to re-write personalities to pretend it didn't happen showed me he was willing to take that attitude to the extreme. That is so Taboo for Spider-Man comics that it isn't funny.

anyway, he is definitely a Spider-Man hack. Didn't continue any sub plots or supporting characters once he came on board. And ripped off other writers and ripped UP past gems to suit his lame-a*s needs.

Highlander rip? Why does that sound familiar? Maybe I've read something of yours before.

 

[shinlyle]

Speaking of Spider-Man sucking nowadays, I saw this on Mike Weiringo's blog the other day. Think of it what you will, but he alludes to his disdain over what has been done to the character of Spider-man during his brief run on Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

Check it out....it's a few entries down under his "Farewell 2006" entry.
http://www.mikewieringo.com/html/Blog.htm

 

[dan1]

Highlander rip? Why does that sound familiar? Maybe I've read something of yours before.

Hey bud, yea you have. I've always said that.

I also said the totem saga is a rip of some earlier Spec Spider-Man comics even. When the Black Crow had Spider-Man and the Puma battle. Totem battle.

But I don't think that was purposely done, because I don't think JMS ever read those back issues woot: ) ,because if he did, he could have actually added Puma and Black Crow to the whole stupid totem thing, to make it more accessible to continuity.

You tell me, Immortals travel the world to beat each other in battle and feed off their essence and then essentially kill them and become stronger because you beat them?

And they can sense each other too.

Ezekial was the Sean Connery Mentor character .

It's a joke man. I don't need my Spider-Man comics origin to copy a slightly above average movie and subsequent tv show. We're talking Spider-Man here. s*it.

Anyway, said my peace too many times already. I just hope some true SPider-Man COMIC BOOK fans become the next writers.

 

[dan1]

Speaking of Spider-Man sucking nowadays, I saw this on Mike Weiringo's blog the other day. Think of it what you will, but he alludes to his disdain over what has been done to the character of Spider-man during his brief run on Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

Check it out....it's a few entries down under his "Farewell 2006" entry.
http://www.mikewieringo.com/html/Blog.htm

Yes, that does sound to me that he was dissatisfied with this entire shock value run (magic origin, Gwen ****, and the Other bs). Civil war probably just made him want to puke at this point.

He's been drawing Spidey for long enough that I'm pretty sure he knows that JMS and JoeQ don't give two craps about the history. Unless their crapping on it.

 

[kainedamo]

Yes, that does sound to me that he was dissatisfied with this entire shock value run (magic origin, Gwen ****, and the Other bs). Civil war probably just made him want to puke at this point.

He's been drawing Spidey for long enough that I'm pretty sure he knows that JMS and JoeQ don't give two craps about the history. Unless their crapping on it.

Now hang on just a second. Talk about reading into it what you want to read into it. It sounds more like he was dissatisfied with working with Peter David.

While I was more than a bit dissatisfied with the creative aspects of working on the FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD SPIDER-MAN title-- I certainly couldn't argue with the sales success of the book launching a major SPIDER-MAN crossover-- and the lucrative repercussions of that crossover. I really haven't spoken much about why I left the title in the past year-- but some times a creative team really clicks... and some times they don't.

It also sounds like he wasn't happy with the Other storyline.

just never felt comfortable with the kinds of stories that I was having to draw with the book-- even after the OTHER crossover ended-- and so I moved on.

Anything else you gather from that is entirely your own doing.

 

[dan1]

Now hang on just a second. Talk about reading into it what you want to read into it. It sounds more like he was dissatisfied with working with Peter David.



It also sounds like he wasn't happy with the Other storyline.



Anything else you gather from that is entirely your own doing.

Well it sounds like he was dissatisfied with the Other and then current goings on, ie, Civil War.

SO it's pretty easy to read into him being dissatified with the even bigger crappola that lead up to it.

But I agree, it's just reading into it. No facts.

I don't care what Ringo thinks on the subject anyway (unless he starts writing or stands up for his dissatisfaction), I care what I think and my fellow Comic Book fans here think, and that's that Spider-Man comics have been crap because of pure disrespect for the past.

 

[kainedamo]

Well it sounds like he was dissatisfied with the Other and then current goings on, ie, Civil War.

Where does he even mention Civil War?

SO it's pretty easy to read into him being dissatified with the even bigger crappola that lead up to it.

Did he say it? No. You're just assuming.

But I agree, it's just reading into it. No facts.

I don't care what Ringo thinks on the subject anyway (unless he starts writing or stands up for his dissatisfaction), I care what I think and my fellow Comic Book fans here think, and that's that Spider-Man comics have been crap because of pure disrespect for the past.

I'd say they're crap for reasons completely seperate from that. The continuity "issues" are blown entirely out of proportion, as always. The Other is just a bad story - as simple as that. Confused, pointless, and it ran on too long.

 

[shinlyle]

Now hang on just a second. Talk about reading into it what you want to read into it. It sounds more like he was dissatisfied with working with Peter David.



It also sounds like he wasn't happy with the Other storyline.



Anything else you gather from that is entirely your own doing.

Well, I was just referring to his obvious distaste for "The Other", the "Evil Uncle Ben", the Iron Spider, and the Unmasking. THese things he was forced to deal with during his tenure on FNSM.

 

[kainedamo]

Well, I was just referring to his obvious distaste for "The Other", the "Evil Uncle Ben", the Iron Spider, and the Unmasking. THese things he was forced to deal with during his tenure on FNSM.

The only story he refers to directly is The Other. He also mentions stuff about some creative teams not gelling, which probably means he didn't like working with Peter David.

 

[dan1]

Where does he even mention Civil War?



Did he say it? No. You're just assuming.



I'd say they're crap for reasons completely seperate from that. The continuity "issues" are blown entirely out of proportion, as always. The Other is just a bad story - as simple as that. Confused, pointless, and it ran on too long.

I said it was assumptions. You're right though, I was reading into it too much.

Again though, just like my last post, I don't give a crap what an artist says, especially if he isn't willing to step up and speak about his dissatisfaction, if it has to do with recent plots.

But here is where YOU are wrong, if you want to play the point out blame game; Continuity and consistancy of character is the Key to Spider-Man Comics. At least the long running "the Amazing Spider-Man."

The major issues truly stem from JMS and JoeQ's lack of care of it, once you completely peel the other gripes away.

Again, Kainedamo, read a bunch of back issues from the all important continuity rich years 1982-1989 before you write that continuity ignorance and manupulation is "blown out of proportion."

 

[kainedamo]

I said it was assumptions. You're right though, I was reading into it too much.

Again though, just like my last post, I don't give a crap what an artist says, especially if he isn't willing to step up and speak about his dissatisfaction, if it has to do with recent plots.

But here is where YOU are wrong, if you want to play the point out blame game; Continuity and consistancy of character is the Key to Spider-Man Comics. At least the long running "the Amazing Spider-Man."

The major issues truly stem from JMS and JoeQ's lack of care of it, once you completely peel the other gripes away.

Again, Kainedamo, read a bunch of back issues from the all important continuity rich years 1982-1989 before you write that continuity ignorance and manupulation is "blown out of proportion."

Every writer makes continuity mistakes. I'd say alot of writers have manipulated or tweaked coninuity. It's 40 plus years of history! Big ****ing deal if he says Gwen was away for months when she wasn't. It's a ****ing pathetic thing to point out and get angry over.

 

[USMC]

It's pathetic not to.

 

[kainedamo]

It's pathetic not to.

Its pathetic not to ***** and whine about the time period a character was away a couple of decades ago???

What???