The Dark Knight Rises Jonathan Nolan's original draft

[BlueLightning]

I don't know, some of the speculation here is just too much brutality. Perhaps it would have detracted or hampered the focus on Bruce's character.

 

[Deserana]

I wish we saw more of Bane as well in the second act. He never seemed like a leader after the speeches. The neck choke scene is the only scene I can really remember after the speeches and before the war.

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

Maybe it explains how Bruce got back to gotham after the pit....

OMGZ no moooar Plot holz!!!

 

[Anno_Domini]

As much as Nolan likes to say he doesn't cut stuff from his films, I think this one is probably missing quite a bit that was filmed(not just stuff from the first draft). There's probably a lot more footage of Bane's revolution and Bruce's imprisonment on the cutting room floor.

Agreed.

I know for a fact Nolan would have kept all of that stuff in the movie if they weren't restricted with an IMAX running time, and the bad thing is that we'll never get a director's cut now since Nolan isn't a fan of having those.

But...knowing the IMAX time limit and what not helps me understand why there is a lack of certain things and has me appreciate the movie for what it does show, hence why it's still my favorite of the trilogy.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

As much as Nolan likes to say he doesn't cut stuff from his films, I think this one is probably missing quite a bit that was filmed(not just stuff from the first draft). There's probably a lot more footage of Bane's revolution and Bruce's imprisonment on the cutting room floor.

Yup and in my opinion is to the detriment of the film. Chris was so eager to keep this a trilogy despite it being clear that there was clearly more story that needed to be told than could be in just one film.

 

[Anno_Domini]

If The Dark Knight Rises were to have two parts, what would be the perfect moment to end Part 1? Imo, it couldn't be when Bane broke the Bat because that would be under 90 minutes.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

If The Dark Knight Rises were to have two parts, what would be the perfect moment to end Part 1? Imo, it couldn't be when Bane broke the Bat because that would be under 90 minutes.

Well, just remember, the breaking scene may have occurred later in the original version. Maybe the first 40 or so minutes could have dealt with Bruce prior to the exile actually taking the hunting he was promised by Gordon.

Plus, I imagine both films would be pretty long, wasn't TDK 200 pages? So a 400 page TDKR would be two 140 minute films.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

If The Dark Knight Rises were to have two parts, what would be the perfect moment to end Part 1? Imo, it couldn't be when Bane broke the Bat because that would be under 90 minutes.

At the moment Bane says: "Gotham will survive" showing the reactor core timer ticking away. Cut to black, "To Be Continued".

 

[kvz5]

If The Dark Knight Rises were to have two parts, what would be the perfect moment to end Part 1? Imo, it couldn't be when Bane broke the Bat because that would be under 90 minutes.

When Bruce escaped the pit would be perfect IMO. It ends the first one in a high note and builds up excitement for the 2nd part.

 

[Anno_Domini]

At the moment Bane says: "Gotham will survive" showing the reactor core timer ticking away. Cut to black, "To Be Continued".

When Bruce escaped the pit would be perfect IMO. It ends the first one in a high note and builds up excitement for the 2nd part.

These two are great suggestions.

 

[DACrowe]

=No, both of those developments should be in the second film. I think you could just expand each half of the film to 120-140 minutes and end with BAne breaking the Bat and threatening him in the Pit, before the football scene. It would have to be more dramatic, but save the actual ruin of Gotham for the second film, and especially Bruce's rise.

Oh well. I do like how it was one complete story instead of that never satisfying approach of cutting it in half. I didn't like it in Harry Potter. I doubt I would like it here.

 

[Tequilla]

Cinema is not television (thank god !) . I dont think a movie should be separated because some plot points (because that's what they are) could be more explored . Rises has a very specific story about Bruce. The context is very rich , i understand that , like i understand people like to spend more time in this universe , but that doesn't translate to more movies. Begins , TDK , Rises , all of them have a clear arc in them. This is the same sort of thought i read alot after TDK...Two Face should have been left to the sequel. Its kinda crazy because its very clear the role Harvey has in the story , and his downfall and demise are very specific to that movie. Just like in Rises , i would go banana's if the movie stopped at him not being able to fulffil what the movie his trying to accomplish. His journey his what matters. If the movie stops halfway...there's nothing. Its incomplete.

Cinema shouldn't be treated like , well if its 2 hours over let's make another one. That to me is something completely outside of the realm of cinema. You either have a story to tell , or you dont.

As much as Nolan likes to say he doesn't cut stuff from his films, I think this one is probably missing quite a bit that was filmed(not just stuff from the first draft). There's probably a lot more footage of Bane's revolution and Bruce's imprisonment on the cutting room floor.

Lee Smith , the editor , stated that this time they had a little more than usual , so they went and trimmed the whole thing. I dont believe there's anything major left out , only longer scenes of what we saw (especially action)

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Cinema is not television (thank god !) . I dont think a movie should be separated because some plot points (because that's what they are) could be more explored . Rises has a very specific story about Bruce. The context is very rich , i understand that , like i understand people like to spend more time in this universe , but that doesn't translate to more movies. Begins , TDK , Rises , all of them have a clear arc in them. This is the same sort of thought i read alot after TDK...Two Face should have been left to the sequel. Its kinda crazy because its very clear the role Harvey has in the story , and his downfall and demise are very specific to that movie. Just like in Rises , i would go banana's if the movie stopped at him not being able to fulffil what the movie his trying to accomplish. His journey his what matters. If the movie stops halfway...there's nothing. Its incomplete.

Cinema shouldn't be treated like , well if its 2 hours over let's make another one. That to me is something completely outside of the realm of cinema. You either have a story to tell , or you dont.



Lee Smith , the editor , stated that this time they had a little more than usual , so they went and trimmed the whole thing. I dont believe there's anything major left out , only longer scenes of what we saw (especially action)

They had 280 minutes of screenplay, they cut it down to over 165 minutes of filmed footage and then threw some of that away accommodate for IMAX reels, they had too much story to be told in the period of time they had.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I remember reading that the original draft was VERY similar to a Tale of Two Cities. If that's the case, I'm guessing either Joe was killed on the bridge, or Batman actually died.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

Agreed.

I know for a fact Nolan would have kept all of that stuff in the movie if they weren't restricted with an IMAX running time, and the bad thing is that we'll never get a director's cut now since Nolan isn't a fan of having those.

But...knowing the IMAX time limit and what not helps me understand why there is a lack of certain things and has me appreciate the movie for what it does show, hence why it's still my favorite of the trilogy.

I didn't think Nolan was opposed to the idea of directors cuts outright (case in point: his love of Blade Runner) but that there was never a necessity for them with most of his films, given how tightly woven they often are.

I'm still holding out a bit of hope for deleted scenes in the Ultimate boxset.

As much as Nolan likes to say he doesn't cut stuff from his films, I think this one is probably missing quite a bit that was filmed(not just stuff from the first draft). There's probably a lot more footage of Bane's revolution and Bruce's imprisonment on the cutting room floor.

I seem to remember seeing footage being filmed of Blake running down an alleyway and there being gunshots. But that could just be the scene where his car flips after the bombs go off.

That wasn't even a rumor. Just a speculation/idea/dream scene by a poster here IIRC. Same with the idea that the reason Bruce was screaming in prison was because someone was getting killed in front of him every time he fails to escape. Lots of ideas/speculations were thrown around back then just going by the set pics and reports. Funny how close some were and how way off the others turned out to be.

Ah right. Either way, that was one of the coolest rumours I read for the film.

I wish we saw more of Bane as well in the second act. He never seemed like a leader after the speeches. The neck choke scene is the only scene I can really remember after the speeches and before the war.

This is one of my few gripes with TDKR. Also how Selina slips off the grid a little between Bruce's imprisonment and return.

 

[DACrowe]

Cinema is not television (thank god !) . I dont think a movie should be separated because some plot points (because that's what they are) could be more explored . Rises has a very specific story about Bruce. The context is very rich , i understand that , like i understand people like to spend more time in this universe , but that doesn't translate to more movies. Begins , TDK , Rises , all of them have a clear arc in them. This is the same sort of thought i read alot after TDK...Two Face should have been left to the sequel. Its kinda crazy because its very clear the role Harvey has in the story , and his downfall and demise are very specific to that movie. Just like in Rises , i would go banana's if the movie stopped at him not being able to fulffil what the movie his trying to accomplish. His journey his what matters. If the movie stops halfway...there's nothing. Its incomplete.

Cinema shouldn't be treated like , well if its 2 hours over let's make another one. That to me is something completely outside of the realm of cinema. You either have a story to tell , or you dont.



Lee Smith , the editor , stated that this time they had a little more than usual , so they went and trimmed the whole thing. I dont believe there's anything major left out , only longer scenes of what we saw (especially action)

Perfectly said. I understand studios realize they can double profits and fans love reveling in these worlds. But even though I wish we saw more of Bane's Gotham, I am more than happy that it was one film. I hate how incomplete the Harry Potter films feel. It's the same reason that Iron Man (2008) and The Avengers are the only truly satisfying Marvel films. They're the only ones that tell a complete story within their realms--even though they set up for future adventures--instead of just previewing movies to come like IM2, Thor and Captain America do.

I prefer films to work on their own. It is nice Nolan did that even if I think TDKR could be 20 minutes longer in the middle. But given Twilight (apparently pointlessly) did it and so is Hunger Games, it is probably the future of franchise films thanks to HP. It is more episodic and, as you said, television-esque. It will also lead to more incomplete films.

 

[BatLobster]

I totally agree. The split in half approach IMO would take the emotional wind out of the sails of both movies. If you end it with Bruce in the prison and Bane having taken over Gotham, there is just no emotionally satisfying note to end the movie on. No matter what it would have ended on a cliffhanger, and not even a good one. It would be incredibly obvious that Bruce would escape the pit and return to Gotham in part II, the circumstances are way too simple. If you ended it with him escaping the pit, then you're left with one giant climax as your fourth movie. Sure, you could have some fun with Bruce smuggling himself across the world and back onto the island, but it would be superfluous material because his emotional arc hits its peak when he escapes the pit.

So yeah, I agree that I think Nolan did the right thing by making sure it was one film and trying to give the audience more bang for their buck. Frankly I was worried about the rumored intermission for IMAX showings because I felt it would take me too out of the movie, so having two separate parts coming out months apart definitely would not have been my preferred way to experience TDKR.

Also...I highly doubt we'll ever see a director's cut, but there is a small part of me naively hoping that it will be announced for the Ultimate Edition. The only reason I have even the slightest bit of hope is because this is a rare case where we've already seen a part of the film that is not the final product...that being the original prologue with Bane's original voice. Nolan definitely made a compromise there. I would just die if they announced a version down the line that featured a bits here and there cut back into the film, along with the original prologue. I feel like as a Blade Runner fan, Nolan should ease up and be more open to having a "Director's Cut" of TDKR if he feels like he had to make a few cuts he wouldn't have otherwise made if not for the IMAX limitations. A guy can dream...

 

[Tequilla]

They had 280 minutes of screenplay, they cut it down to over 165 minutes of filmed footage and then threw some of that away accommodate for IMAX reels, they had too much story to be told in the period of time they had.

280 minutes ? Where did the number came from ?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

It's more of an estimation, The Dark Knight had a script that was nearly 200 pages and Chris said Jonah's script was nearly 400 so I just doubled the runtime of The Dark Knight, it could have been either side of that number.

 

[Tequilla]

It's more of an estimation, The Dark Knight had a script that was nearly 200 pages and Chris said Jonah's script was nearly 400 so I just doubled the runtime of The Dark Knight, it could have been either side of that number.

Oh the draft. Ok. But that's a draft. Its not a shooting script. That stuff tends to happen in the movie business. And reading how Chris and Jonah works , i probably think that's what's intended. Lots of material to work. Then they end up shaping the movie.

The same goes for editing. Not everything that is shot , belong to the movie.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

We do know there was quite a substantial chunk cut out of the final film though to accommodate the limited IMAX reels. Almost certainly not as much as going from draft 1 to final draft, but still a lot. I'd say before it had been cut down it was over 3 hours.

 

[Baramos]

As a basic rule of thumb one page in screenplay = one minute screen time.

Obviously this is not hard and fast, but it's an approximation.

It's not surprising that if there was a draft script with 280 pages that it would be scaled back considerably because that movie would simply be way too long for some summer-blockbuster popcorn film. Take for example one of the longest movies I've ever sat through, Gettysburg, which even with a director's cut maxed out at 271 minutes (I wasn't surprised that at 214 minutes, Gods and Generals felt breezy in comparison). Schindler's List is another incredibly long movie. Both of those are high-profile dramatic films. It's not surprising that they scaled TDKR way back, especially since it still felt too long, especially that first 40 minutes the first time you watch it...

 

[Victarion]

With submission, I felt the film galloped along at a quick clip in my first viewing.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

With submission, I felt the film galloped along at a quick clip in my first viewing.

That tends to happen though doesn't it? Before you know it, it's done.

 

[Hawkeye70000000]

Jonathan's original draft could've had Blake, Gordon and those willing to fight bane more open attacks instead of just sneaking around. Causing all out war with bane and his thugs. This could have brought tensions among a portion of Gotham's citizens to become afraid of bane causing the nuclear-like bomb to go off. People turning on each other in fear of bane's retaliating against the city. I would say actually achieving that dark place that the joker tried to bring them to in tdk, but failed. Something like this would be a very extreme and dark path for the city to be in. All while Bruce is in the pit watching this happening and undoing what he had done would have be heartbreaking.