The Dark Knight Let's debate various aspects of TDK

[StorminNorman]

Hey normie, what would you do if good old paul bettany was recasted as senior J?

 

[Solidus]

As far as casting of the Joker goes I think Nolan hit the nail on the head.

But at the time, before Heath's announcement. I was not really a fan of Paul, or Humme as the Joker. I honestly could not imagine, or even come up with an idea of who could be the Joker. I usually always have ideas of who could play, I had great ideas on who could play Two-Face but the Joker stumped me.

But then when Heath was announced I slapped my forehead, and almost in shock was like..."Of course why did I not think of that?"

Never in my right mind would I have thought him to be the Joker. But it did fit like a glove.

I hated the rumors of Robin Williams and Steve Carell, I rolled my eyes at people thinking that.

And the idea I hated worse of all was Glover, to me he is not Joker material, yea he's creepy looking, but not the Joker in my eyes....too skinny. As I saw it.

 

[StylishHokie21]

He would have been awesome! But dude... Ledger is so good it scares me. So, no complaints from me, ya know?

Oh...I agree definitely. When he was cast I was puzzled, but I'm not too worried now.

 

[StylishHokie21]

So...

From the footage in the prologue, we know he hesitates for at least a moment before destroying it.

I can't wait to see how this scene will play out.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Is there any word on when we can expect the next trailer?

I'm guessing sometime in May. Or possibly when the Dent virals are finished?

 

[cjblair]

So...

Gordon's part of the S.W.A.T. team, eh? Possibly the squad leader? He's Lieutenant, after all...

...and what about his episode with the Batsignal? What made him do it? Was he pushed into a tight spot with the press or the rest of the force? Or is it just one person?

From the footage in the prologue, we know he hesitates for at least a moment before destroying it.

The smashing of the Bat signal would be on the Joker's orders, I think, I said to you in the past he may have been Commissioner by this stage. The casting scripts refer to him as the Chief. This would disconnect Batman from the wider city. Or Bruce may have done it to make himself the 'outcast', like Alfred suggested.

As for the SWAT thing the Gotham Times refers to him being appointed as the head of the Major Crime Unit, nicknamed 'Elliot Ness'. Maybe the scenes we see of the Joker in custody is when he's actually been brought in, we see Gordon rushing into a room with the SWAT. Maybe he's just wearing their uniform for the mission.

 

[Shoemeister]

The casting scripts refer to him as the Chef.

Wait, so Gordon now runs his own falafel stand too?

 

[Keyser Soze]

I for one hate that Keyser Sushi is back. He is my arch-nemesis. On the rare occasion that I say something really intelligent and significant, the OTHER Keyser always gets the credit! I HATE YOU KEYSEEEEEEEEEER!

 

[cjblair]

Wait, so Gordon now runs his own falafel stand too?

He'd live longer in Gotham as a chief than a police commissioner

 

[Anita18]

SOOOOOOOOSH!

Ah, how I've missed the sermons of both teh Sushi and Stormin' Norman.

Although my brain is fried so I'll just accept what Nolan does because it's for the world that he built for his movies anyway.

 

[explode7]

KS is back. Where'd he go?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Welcome back Sush. Where did ya go anyways?

 

[StylishHokie21]

Haha! I forgot there were two Keysers. I feel dumb now.

 

[Figs]

Welcome back you two!

Wait, so Gordon now runs his own falafel stand too?

Gotta love Shoemeister for keeping the Falafel talk going.t:

 

[rohitiyer]

“Joker's insanity matches his physical appearance, he doesn't have to dress up to become himself, he IS what he is all the time. It's something that's not grotesque in the least, but yet it is extremely grotesque, and just damn creepy, it's not like he's albino, he has green hair and white skin, there's no way you can get away from it, it's just there.

It's why he does what he does. Much like Two-Face where the deformity is what causes the character to go over the edge. Joker was an unstable individual who dropped into a vat of chemicals, and came out looking like a clown, he lost it, his mind almost had no other choice than to revert to what he became. People argue it's MORE insane and creepy that The Ledgerer paints his face and dyes his hair. While creepy and insane, it's not even close to a guy who must look like that, who IS that image come to life, a monster.

Okay, here's my take:

I kind of trust what Nolan has said so far about his take on the joker - the fact that he's purely an anarchist and that this film is about the 'rise of the Joker' as opposed to 'Joker Begins'.

I think we saw this take pretty clearly in the prologue. That short taste of the film is a very interesting watch if you look at it in terms of character introduction and the way Ledger's Joker is established - he's the last one to speak, yet his words are the most interesting and cryptic - "I believe what doesn't kill you, only makes you... stranger"

The Nolan brothers are very good at misdirection, wordplay and big reveals. We've seen this pretty much in all of Chistopher Nolan's films - Following, Memento, Insomnia, Batman Begins and The Prestige - each film gave us clues throughout and let the audience put two and two together.

I believe the Joker in TDK will be like that also - a mystery which we may or may not be able to solve but the clues will definitely be there. Personally, I love it when filmmakers leave in loose ends and allow for some post-credits debate amongst the audience and the fans. Anton Chigurh is also one such character (for example, many see him as a form of Death in No Country For Old Men).

Regarding the perma-white vs. makeup issue, all I can say again is, watch the prologue. The bank manager compares the Joker to all the other robbers that he killed and says that whoever hired him would do the same. In my humble opinion, the Joker removing his face mask to reveal that (unlike the other goons) his actual face is also clown-like is the Nolans' subtle yet striking way of saying that this guy is definitely crazier than he seems at first glance.

Personally, I don't think we need to go a layer beyond that.

PS - Welcome back, Mr. Sushi.

 

[Manosman]

Okay, here's my take:

I kind of trust what Nolan has said so far about his take on the joker - the fact that he's purely an anarchist and that this film is about the 'rise of the Joker' as opposed to 'Joker Begins'.

I think we saw this take pretty clearly in the prologue. That short taste of the film is a very interesting watch if you look at it in terms of character introduction and the way Ledger's Joker is established - he's the last one to speak, yet his words are the most interesting and cryptic - "I believe what doesn't kill you, only makes you... stranger"

The Nolan brothers are very good at misdirection, wordplay and big reveals. We've seen this pretty much in all of Chistopher Nolan's films - Following, Memento, Insomnia, Batman Begins and The Prestige - each film gave us clues throughout and let the audience put two and two together.

I believe the Joker in TDK will be like that also - a mystery which we may or may not be able to solve but the clues will definitely be there. Personally, I love it when filmmakers leave in loose ends and allow for some post-credits debate amongst the audience and the fans. Anton Chigurh is also one such character (for example, many see him as a form of Death in No Country For Old Men).

Regarding the perma-white vs. makeup issue, all I can say again is, watch the prologue. The bank manager compares the Joker to all the other robbers that he killed and says that whoever hired him would do the same. In my humble opinion, the Joker removing his face mask to reveal that (unlike the other goons) his actual face is also clown-like is the Nolans' subtle yet striking way of saying that this guy is definitely crazier than he seems at first glance.

Personally, I don't think we need to go a layer beyond that.

PS - Welcome back, Mr. Sushi.

Good post. I think there will be little clues throughout the movie, but never really confirming nor denying the perma-white/makeup debate. However i think that the biggest clue that we know of so far from set reports is......

Spoiler

The funeral scene where the joker dresses up like a police officer in an attempt to kill the mayor. In that scene I am assuming he'll have to do something to his face to blend in, whether that be taking his makeup off, or putting flesh color makeup over his face. If he does not do this, then there would be no way he could sneak into the crowd of police officers without gving himself away

I personally think he has some kind of skin deformity (in addition to the scars) and uses the makeup to simply add to it, but of course this is all speculation on my part since there is no hard evidence, as of yet.

 

[Franky4Fingers]

Good post. I think there will be little clues throughout the movie, but never really confirming nor denying the perma-white/makeup debate. However i think that the biggest clue that we know of so far from set reports is......

Spoiler

The funeral scene where the joker dresses up like a police officer in an attempt to kill the mayor. In that scene I am assuming he'll have to do something to his face to blend in, whether that be taking his makeup off, or putting flesh color makeup over his face. If he does not do this, then there would be no way he could sneak into the crowd of police officers without gving himself away

I personally think he has some kind of skin deformity (in addition to the scars) and uses the makeup to simply add to it, but of course this is all speculation on my part since there is no hard evidence, as of yet.

I actually was reminicing(sp) last years set reports and photos and I came across that spoiler scene you were talking about. That picture of him getting in the car off camera with his pack of smokes shows some white around his face. The scarring is easy to see but it looks fairl clear there is some white on his face....so I am curious as well on what the Jman does for this scene.

 

[Manosman]

I actually was reminicing(sp) last years set reports and photos and I came across that spoiler scene you were talking about. That picture of him getting in the car off camera with his pack of smokes shows some white around his face. The scarring is easy to see but it looks fairl clear there is some white on his face....so I am curious as well on what the Jman does for this scene.

exactly, those two spy pics are very interesting, shame they are blurry

 

[Bond]

Sushi!!!

Long time no talk man.

 

[cjblair]

Okay, here's my take:

I kind of truZ~ what Nolan has said so far about his take on the joker - t`e fact that he's purely an anarchist and that this film is about the 'rise of the Joker' as opposed to 'Joker Begins'.

I think we saw this take pretty clearly in the prologue. That short taste of the film is a very interesting watch if you look at it in terms of character introduction and the way Ledger's Joker is established - he's the last one to speak, yet his words are the most interesting and cryptic - "I believe what doesn't kill you, only makes you... stranger"

The Nolan brothers are very good at misdirection, wordplay and big reveals. We've seen this pretty much in all of Chistopher Nolan's films - Following, Memento, Insomnia, Batman Begins and The Prestige - each film gave us clues throughout and let the audience put two and two together.

I believe the Joker in TDK will be like that also - a mystery which we may or may not be able to solve but the clues will definitely be there. Personally, I love it when filmmakers leave in loose ends and allow for some post-credits debate amongst the audience and the fans. Anton Chigurh is also one such character (for example, many see him as a form of Death in No Country For Old Men).

Regarding the perma-white vs. makeup issue, all I can say again is, watch the prologue. The bank manager compares the Joker to all the other robbers that he killed and says that whoever hired him would do the same. In my humble opinion, the Joker removing his face mask to reveal that (unlike the other goons) his actual face is also clown-like is the Nolans' subtle yet striking way of saying that this guy is definitely crazier than he seems at first glance.

Personally, I don't think we need to go a layer beyond that.

PS - Welcome back, Mr. Sushi.

Maybe he already knows about the joker, seeing his face makes him go oh shiite; I thought he was just a thug.

 

[BankManager]

Why?

 

[JStorm]

This thread lacks wit, charm and Fran.

 

[SheldonLevene]

So...

Gordon's part of the S.W.A.T. team, eh? Possibly the squad leader? He's Lieutenant, after all...

**** Oldman is so perfect as Gordon. I hope he has a greater part in this film. Gordon, Dent, Batman rooftop scene = awesome.

 

[WompuM]

If there isnt a scene like that I am going to be peeved.
Especially the end of TLH, where it's Gordon, Dent's good side, Dent's bad side, Batman, shot from below. perfection.

 

[SheldonLevene]

If there isnt a scene like that I am going to be peeved.
Especially the end of TLH, where it's Gordon, Dent's good side, Dent's bad side, Batman, shot from below. perfection.

Agreed. The dialouge doesn't have to be, and probably won't be, lifted straight from TLH, but a similar scene would be quite nice.