The Dark Knight Let's debate various aspects of TDK

[The Guard]

"COME ON! HIT ME!"

Or did you think he was speaking in a normal tone of voice?

Are you seriously asking me how the voice he's using is "weird" compared to, oh, I don't know, almost any normal voice?

Calm down. I'm not knocking Ledger's turn as The Joker. I love his take on the character so far. I'm just saying I don't think it's a brilliant PERFORMANCE just yet.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Gentlemen... let's broaden our minds.

"Joker was here..."

 

[Crook]

"COME ON! HIT ME!"

Or did you think he was speaking in a normal tone of voice?

Clearly that line is supposed to be yelled no matter the delivery. Where are these other lines that he was supposedly yelling?

Are you seriously asking me how the voice he's using is "weird" compared to, oh, I don't know, almost any normal voice?

It's deep and raspy, but it's not weird. Maybe his delivery is unnatural (but there's nothing wrong with that), however his actual voice is fine. It's basically Heath's natural voice with an American accent.

Calm down. I'm not knocking Ledger's turn as The Joker. I love his take on the character so far. I'm just saying I don't think it's a brilliant PERFORMANCE just yet.

I'm perfectly calm.

I just don't see where you get that his performance can be found in any horror film. That type of statement carries a negative connotation.

 

[Joker'sHenchman]

Clearly that line is supposed to be yelled no matter the delivery. Where are these other lines that he was supposedly yelling?


It's deep and raspy, but it's not weird. Maybe his delivery is unnatural (but there's nothing wrong with that), however his actual voice is fine. It's basically Heath's natural voice with an American accent.


I'm perfectly calm.

I just don't see where you get that his performance can be found in any horror film. That type of statement carries a negative connotation.

Actually, you're being a closed minded *****e. The trailer has only proven that Heath can yell and alter his voice. You have no basis for saying that Heath's performance is brilliant becuase you haven't seen it. The trailer has proven nothing. He can walk with a gimp and a shotgun. He can smack his lips and look up. I am BY NO MEANS trying to bash Heath's performance. I THINK HE WILL BLOW IT AWAY. All's we're trying to say is what if he doesn't? It certainly is a possibility and so far we haven't seen anything dramatic either way.
so... stop being an ass and just see the point we're trying to make.

 

[Crook]

Please, oh brilliant wise-ass, WHERE did I say Heath's performance was brilliant? I didn't even say ANYTHING about his performance. If anything, you should be the one talking to Guard, as he's the only one that's even commented compared Heath to anything.

So f**k off and learn to read, before making an idiotic post again.

 

[The Guard]

Clearly that line is supposed to be yelled no matter the delivery. Where are these other lines that he was supposedly yelling?

I said "yelling some of his lines". It means "some of his lines are being yelled". If it's one line, it can still be "some of his lines".

I just don't see where you get that his performance can be found in any horror film. That type of statement carries a negative connotation.

No, far from it. Rather, it carries the following connotation: "Acting creepy and over the top is not, in itself, a brilliant piece of acting".

Where did I write "Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker can be found in almost any horror film"? Here, let me repost what I wrote:

It's an actor being over the top and creepy. I don't count that as a brilliant performance just yet, as that's something you can find in almost any horror film\

Are you honestly questioning whether actors being over the top and creepy can be found in almost any horror film?

It's deep and raspy, but it's not weird. Maybe his delivery is unnatural (but there's nothing wrong with that), however his actual voice is fine. It's basically Heath's natural voice with an American accent.

That is not Heath Ledger's natural voice, regardless of the accent (And if it is, that makes his use of that voice that much less impressive). He's clearly altered it, given it a bit of a lilt, and a slightly higher pitch. And at some points, he appears to be speaking from the back of his throat as well. I would call "unnatural" weird, wouldn't you? I'm not talking about "deep and raspy". I'm talking about when he goes high, I.E. "Like me!" and "A little fight in you. I like that". I have no issues with his voice. I'm just saying, he's speaking in a weird voice. I don't consider speaking in a weird voice "brilliant".

 

[Crook]

I said "yelling some of his lines". It means "some of his lines are being yelled". If it's one line, it can still be "some of his lines".

Mhm. If he's yelled one line (one that's supposed to be yelled mind you) out of 20+ lines we've heard, you don't just say he's yelling some of his lines. That's just odd.

No, far from it. Rather, it carries the following connotation: "Acting creepy and over the top is not, in itself, a brilliant piece of acting".

Where did I write "Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker can be found in almost any horror film"? Here, let me repost what I wrote:

It's an actor being over the top and creepy. I don't count that as a brilliant performance just yet, as that's something you can find in almost any horror film

Are you honestly questioning whether actors being over the top and creepy can be found in almost any horror film?

Am I missing something here? You mention Heath "being over the top and creepy", followed by a comma, with a statement that it's "something you can find in almost any horror film". Is that not making even a slight comparison to Heath's take with those of actors from horror films?

That is not Heath Ledger's natural voice, regardless of the accent (And if it is, that makes his use of that voice that much less impressive). He's clearly altered it, given it a bit of a lilt, and a slightly higher pitch.

Yes, like his laugh and his "like me!" line. Everything else has been fairly deep though.

I would call "unnatural" weird, wouldn't you? I'm not talking about "deep and raspy". I'm talking about when he goes high, I.E. "Like me!" and "A little fight in you. I like that". I have no issues with his voice. I'm just saying, he's speaking in a weird voice.

See, I attribute the "unnatural" to his delivery of the actual lines, not the voice. I don't know, maybe it's just that I do have a friend that has a voice similar to Heath's, that I'm very used to it.

I don't consider speaking in a weird voice "brilliant".

Neither do I.

 

[The Guard]

Mhm. If he's yelled one line (one that's supposed to be yelled mind you) out of 20+ lines we've heard, you don't just say he's yelling some of his lines. That's just odd.

I'm a theater person. We call a line "lines". And we call a line out of a series of them "some of the lines". Yes, it's kind of odd, but it's also, oddly enough, the proper use of the phrase.

Am I missing something here? You mention Heath "being over the top and creepy", followed by a comma, with a statement that it's "something you can find in almost any horror film". Is that not making even a slight comparison to Heath's take with those of actors from horror films?

I talked about an actor being over the top and creepy in general, not an actor acting like The Joker. I suppose if you don't take into account the context I'm speaking in, then yes, you could have misinterpreted that statement.

Is that not making even a slight comparison to Heath's take with those of actors from horror films?

To a point. Mostly it's making a comparison of the difficulty of being over the top and creepy with what is often found in horror films. I.E, while being over the top and creepy doesn't come easily to everyone, it is not in itself brilliant to be able to do so.

Everything else has been fairly deep though.

Even when his lines are spoken in a deeper, or lower register, he is lilting his voice, and using a higher pitch than he usually would. Case in point, "It's all...part of the plan".

See, I attribute the "unnatural" to his delivery of the actual lines, not the voice. I don't know, maybe it's just that I do have a friend that has a voice similar to Heath's, that I'm very used to it.

It's not possible to seperate how a voice sounds from why it sounds that way. If a voice sounds weird because he's delivering his line to sound a certain way, it still sounds weird.

 

[guitarkhero311]

Now I don't personally believe this, but I would like to present the other side of the argument. What if Heath's performance does suck? It's a complete let down and we barely like it. What if what we've seen in the trailers are deceptive of the real performance? Wouldn't be the first time a movie is misrepresented by its trailers...

The possibility is always there, case in point with The Invisible, the trailer looked unbelievable, but the movie sucked. But based on Heath's past performances, I think it is hard to say that his take on the Joker will suck. It took Jack, a great actor to pull off the first one, now we got Heath, a phenomenal actor up to the plate. Now if James Vanderbeek or whatever his name got the part, I would have my doubts....but Heath Ledger, I have never been disappointed by him. Sure some of his movies sucked, but his acting was still good and since then he has evolved into a true performer. Watch Candy or Brokeback Mountain and tell me that he will disappoint, not likely. And dont argue with The Guard, you will not win.

 

[guitarkhero311]

Whoa! This thread is getting nasty. Look by what we have seen, The Joker looks pretty cool to me. Now there is always a chance for it to suck, but as of right now, I think he has nailed it. I can't wait to see the whole performance.

 

[Saint]

I'm a theater person. We call a line "lines". And we call a line out of a series of them "some of the lines". Yes, it's kind of odd, but it's also, oddly enough, the proper use of the phrase.



I talked about an actor being over the top and creepy in general, not an actor acting like The Joker. I suppose if you don't take into account the context I'm speaking in, then yes, you could have misinterpreted that statement.



To a point. Mostly it's making a comparison of the difficulty of being over the top and creepy with what is often found in horror films. I.E, while being over the top and creepy doesn't come easily to everyone, it is not in itself brilliant to be able to do so.



Even when his lines are spoken in a deeper, or lower register, he is lilting his voice, and using a higher pitch than he usually would. Case in point, "It's all...part of the plan".



It's not possible to seperate how a voice sounds from why it sounds that way. If a voice sounds weird because he's delivering his line to sound a certain way, it still sounds weird.

I can't believe this argument went past post one. Heath is trying to sound weird, and that's that. I don't understand how there could be any argument.

 

[metropolitanpsy]

it sucks
i already know too much abt this movie doh

 

[Victarion]

Oh, Jack was scary too. I mean I was genuinely afraid for Vicki in the Museum scene. And when Alicia took off her mask, I was genuinely horrified at what Joker had done to her. By the end of the movie where he's just gassing people for... I don't even know why, it really didn't make sense, but it was a great scene... at this point you have the sense that he's spiraling down the drain, as it were.

As much as I love the way the new interpretation of Joker is going, I think that in a way, Jack's take might have an edge in terms of scare factor. From what we've seen of Heath's Joker, he'll carry an aura of fear--most would be uneasy and unsure of him right on the spot. Jack's Joker, however, had that playfulness about him that might cause one to lower their guard, then...BAM! He hits you with the smilex.

 

[Prefix]

The whole "Jack Nicholson is the greatest Joker ever" movement is ******ation at its worst. Open up your minds to a change. Jack was great with what he did, Heath will be too.

I don't think Jack Nicholson is the greatest Joker ever, thank you very much, Mr. Labeller

 

[guitarkhero311]

I don't think Jack Nicholson is the greatest Joker ever, thank you very much, Mr. Labeller

Wow, I didn't say you were. But thanks for reading my post.

 

[gambit420]

So does The Joker mean his(Batman's) presence in GC has "changed things...forever" or does it mean Batz changed things forever on a physical level?

 

[Carnotaur3]

The brilliance isn't that Heath developed a weird voice for Joker... the brilliance is that he's used it (as well as other aspects) to define a new take on the Joker.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Whoa! This thread is getting nasty. Look by what we have seen, The Joker looks pretty cool to me. Now there is always a chance for it to suck, but as of right now, I think he has nailed it. I can't wait to see the whole performance.

Not at all. Sure there's some snark but look at how Crook, Guard and Saint are three intelligent people who don't all agree. They're able to raise valid or at least compelling arguments that, if you read them, might make you think about the subject they're discussing and maybe modify your current position.

That is the very essence of a good debate!

 

[Keyser Sushi]

As much as I love the way the new interpretation of Joker is going, I think that in a way, Jack's take might have an edge in terms of scare factor. From what we've seen of Heath's Joker, he'll carry an aura of fear--most would be uneasy and unsure of him right on the spot. Jack's Joker, however, had that playfulness about him that might cause one to lower their guard, then...BAM! He hits you with the smilex.

Speaking of compelling arguments.

However, I think there's more than one way to be frightening - and if even half of what we've heard about Heath's Joker is true then he should be absolutely terrifying.

Michael Caine said the first time he saw any part of Heath's performance, he forgot his own lines due to the shock.

That's pretty impressive. I have the feeling a seasoned professional like Michael Caine is not easily flummoxed.

 

[Figs]

So does The Joker mean his(Batman's) presence in GC has "changed things...forever" or does it mean Batz changed things forever on a physical level?

Well if they are following the comics and trying to do it justice then he should be meaning that Batman's presence is what changed things forever.

The whole notion that the crime rates went up as well as the colorful psychos all came out once they saw somebody who has a few screws loose himself going out every night dressed up as a bat.

 

[gwynplaine]

Well if they are following the comics and trying to do it justice then he should be meaning that Batman's presence is what changed things forever.

The whole notion that the crime rates went up as well as the colorful psychos all came out once they saw some body who has a few screws loose himself going out every night dressed up as a bat.

Good post, good explanation.

 

[Crook]

I wouldn't say crime rates go up, as that would defeat the purpose of Batman. Maybe he decreases the crime, but the methods and psychos brought about by his presence have severely changed, and maybe provide an even immediate danger to Gotham.

Less about the numbers, and more about the threat levels.

 

[guitarkhero311]

Not at all. Sure there's some snark but look at how Crook, Guard and Saint are three intelligent people who don't all agree. They're able to raise valid or at least compelling arguments that, if you read them, might make you think about the subject they're discussing and maybe modify your current position.

That is the very essence of a good debate!

God Bless America!

 

[The Battousai]

God Bless America!

What does that have to do with debating?

 

[guitarkhero311]

What does that have to do with debating?

America is the only country where you can debate. You can't debate in Soviet Russia. Its a joke man........Why so serious? Only Verbal Kent can understand.