Logan Logan - news & discussion - Part 3

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And I raise you a Deadpool. We wouldn't have gotten that if Fox had played it safe.

Fox never wanted to make Deadpool. Ryan and the producers fought for years to get it off the ground. Tim Miller was given a measly budget to work with, they obviously never thought it would be profitable.

And look at the first version of Deadpool they gave us in Origins. THAT was Fox's own vision.
 
Fox never wanted to make Deadpool. Ryan and the producers fought for years to get it off the ground. Tim Miller was given a measly budget to work with, they obviously never thought it would be profitable.

And look at the first version of Deadpool they gave us in Origins. THAT was Fox's own vision.

And it appears that they've learned from their mistakes. I don't care about the motives behind Deadpool. I care that Fox listened to Reynolds, and Miller, and Fincher, and Cameron and they finally let the people behind that movie do what they wanted to do. That's why it paid off.
 
They wasted prime Deadpool years with their procrastination. Reynolds is what 40 now? We should be on Deadpool IV by now

And? Fox made a film that 7x it's budget, and it was critically acclaimed, and I thought it was pretty good. Logan is on the way. I'm not going to dwell on what they've seemingly done "wrong" when they're doing right right now. And without being MCU clones at that. If you don't like it, well that's life.
 
And? Fox made a film that 7x it's budget, and it was critically acclaimed, and I thought it was pretty good. Logan is on the way. I'm not going to dwell on what they've seemingly done "wrong" when they're doing right right now. And without being MCU clones at that. If you don't like it, well that's life.
So you want people to give them credit for things they get right (even after not wanting to do them) but not trash them on numerous things they did wrong?

Good for you but that's no one else's obligation.
 
No, that's not what I said. Some folks are proposing they change direction when they've finally found their way. That's what I'm against.
 
What direction? There's no X-MEN without Hugh Jackman. They pushed him so hard that nobody cares about X-MEN only Hugh Jackman as X-Man.

So I'm waiting for the direction for the main IP. You know the reason FoX bought X-MEN to begin with. FoX is afraid to even talk about X-MEN anymore because the reaction is so negative for it.

It's embarrassing that Deadpool outgrossed and was just a better all around film than Apoclypse. You could've made 4 or 5 Deadpool films with Apoclypse budget.

They lucked out soooooooo hard because Fan4stic & Apoclypse were straight duds.
 
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And it appears that they've learned from their mistakes. I don't care about the motives behind Deadpool. I care that Fox listened to Reynolds, and Miller, and Fincher, and Cameron and they finally let the people behind that movie do what they wanted to do. That's why it paid off.

How have they learned from their mistakes?

It was followed with XM:Apocalypse, which is clearly a polarising film at best, and which the studio itself is said to have described as under-performing. A hastily assembled scene with comic-accurate costumes was grafted on to the end of the movie but it still felt like more of the same in many ways.

And since then they have been revealed to be wanting the next film STILL to focus on Lawrence, Fassbender and McAvoy.

Tim Miller has quit from the Deadpool sequel.

And then Mangold admits they have an unco-ordinated approach, hence two versions of Caliban (in addition to the two versions of Deadpool, Moira, Emma Frost, Trask, etc). The only good thing about these duplicates is that the second iteration is usually a vast improvement on the first, but it does beg the question of why they screw up so many things the first time round. Why are they constantly correcting their own films?

I don't want this series to be a replica of Disney/Marvel with its light tone and superficiality. I don't even need end-credits teasers like the ones Disney/Marvel uses. But I'd love Fox to have the same co-ordination and planning. They clearly don't really know what they are doing, as is evidenced by Mangold's quote on Caliban.
 
How have they learned from their mistakes?

Because Fan4stic & Apoclypse "underperformed". We won't get FF v X-MEN so that's a huge plus

Singer was definitely going to direct that and Kinberg was gonna write it
 
Fox never wanted to make Deadpool. Ryan and the producers fought for years to get it off the ground. Tim Miller was given a measly budget to work with, they obviously never thought it would be profitable.

And look at the first version of Deadpool they gave us in Origins. THAT was Fox's own vision.

The 20th Century Fox that produced X-Men Origins: Wolverine is not the same 20th Century Fox that produced Deadpool.

Since then the micro-managing Tom Rothman (who has a very singular and faulty vision of how a commercial movie should be and be made) has left the studio, and with him several other execs. And you can see a boost in quality not only regarding their comic book adaptations, but also their overall output.

In addition to that, even under the new regime the studio needed some convincing to make Deadpool. And you gotta consider that R-rated comic book adaptations rarely had any success, so considering statistics it WAS a risky project.

But you know what? They ended making the movie, and supported it 100%. Sure, they asked for a slight budget cut (which led to the creation of one of the movie's funniest running gag), but they DID allow Tim Miller, Ryan Reynolds, Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick to make the movie they wanted to. They allowed them to make a hard-boiled, raunchy, R-rated, mid-budget R-rated action-comedy based on a Marvel comic book, in an age in which studios push for mostly formulaic, safe, homogenized movies ("The Avengers made a billion dollars? Let's just make movies like The Avengers!"). They could've asked for a more generic take on the character, which would've shared more similarities with other successful and popular comic book adaptations. They could've pushed for a safer movie, but they didn't. And man, if they didn't support the movie 100% before its release. They could've just burnt it off, like many other studios do with movies at that price tag these days. They didn't, they promoted it just as strongly as they do with their tentpoles.

As with every other studio, some projects just end up being difficult and not working (I'm talking about the Fantastic Four reboot), and there are multiple reasons for that.

Sure, it's annoying as a fan when a movie doesn't work. If it were for me, every comic book adaptation should be just spectacular. But guess what? They aren't. Not at 20th Century Fox, not at Marvel Studios, not at Warner Bros., not at any studio.

So could we PLEASE start using another tape, 'cause after all these years it would be nice if people actually would inform themselves about the movie-making business and studios behind these movies, instead of making dated statements, which connect their personal dissatisfaction with some elements of these movies to the days Tom Rothman and his team made X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

So this movie won't perfectly connect with the other fifty X-Men movies? Which means the evil organization bankrolled by Rupert Murdoch is again working on destroying all of our beloved stories? :whatever:

They've once again taken a bold step to support James Mangold and Hugh Jackman's vision of an Unforgiven-like final tale for the character of Wolverine, instead of playing it safe and making 'just another superhero movie'? Wonderful! In this day and age we should celebrate a major studio which makes bold and decision and support filmmakers who want to try and make something unique and fresh? And so what if it doesn't exactly line up on that chart you create on your Microsoft Office files once you get back home? In those two hours you sit in theaters you have the chance to witness something which has a somewhat different taste and look, something which could possibly surprise you the way Deadpool did, and the way most movies which had a true impact did.

Thank God for variety. Thank God for movies which focus more on the individual story they're telling, instead of feeling like yet another episode in an infinite series.

If you don't like this approach, and if inter-connectivity matters so much to you, just watch the Marvel Studios movies, which seem to be doing just fine in that regard.

P.S.: Tim Miller left Deadpool 2 because of creative differences with Ryan Reynolds, and seems to be perfectly happy collaborating with 20th Century Fox, considering that one of his next projects is set up there, and was the first thing he started working on once he left the sequel. (Smart) information first, discussion second. This way we could turn fanboy-moaning into an actual discussion about movies and filmmaking.
 
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Despite the confusing continuity, I just want to see a great film.
 
Accordin to shawn maddern fox have a basic outline of what they wanna do but thats all really.

I think since 2011 FOX have learnt to give more freedom, especially when you look at FC, DOFP, Deadpool, Apocalypse and Logan and compare them to X-Men Origins which was basically reduced to more a popcorn flick which apparently the creative team wanted to explore post-traumatic stress with logan but FOX thought it was too dark so they didn't do it.
 
Singer was definitely going to direct that and Kinberg was gonna write it

Nothing said or even hinted that Singer was gonna direct that movie, thats like a while ago people saying singer was gonna direct the next phoenix movie because he didn't get a chance to direct his version of X3 but that clearly isn't the case, Singer wants to stay involved in some way but he has also stepped aside because he wants to do other films.
 
Nothing said or even hinted that Singer was gonna direct that movie,

He definitely would've directed or EP'd at the very least. He was all about it till those films got negative buzz.

Talking to Yahoo! Movies, Singer said that recent rumors of a crossover between Fantastic Four and the X-Men movies have some truth to them. "Those ideas are in play," he revealed. "That would be a natural match-up because they're both ensemble films and there is a natural mechanism by which to do it."

Quite what that "natural mechanism" is, however, Singer won't be drawn out on. "It deals with time," he teased. "That's all I'm going to say."


The FF/X-MEN script exists thank God people didn't see Fan4stic or Apoclypse in high enough numbers
 
He definitely would've directed or EP'd at the very least. He was all about it till those films got negative buzz.
Quote doesn't imply much.

You have charts, graphs, scripts, etc of all these ideas for projects that don't come to fruition as one would expect in the business of filmmaking.
 
I don't think there was any plan at all, i think Singer just knew if there was crossover it would likely have been with the younger cast and so time travel would be used in some form or another rather then anyone thinking they will meet the present day X-Men.

If F4 was successful and hey were allowed too it might have happened but it doesn't look like they were trying to sell F4 with the idea a cross over most definitely would happen.
 
I don't recall Quicksilver in WO.

Before Wolverine breaks the mutant kids out of their cells, we see 1 kid shimmering as if he's trying to superspeed himself out of those bungee cords. Many people believe that kid is Quicksilver and YouTube has a clip of the scene i'm talking about.
 
Before Wolverine breaks the mutant kids out of their cells, we see 1 kid shimmering as if he's trying to superspeed himself out of those bungee cords. Many people believe that kid is Quicksilver and YouTube has a clip of the scene i'm talking about.
Just saw it. That's the other thing. Apocalypse Stryker uses a way to restrict powers (electromagnetic fields) without applying all those individual restraints outside of Wolvie in a metal coffin.

Logan has the Reavers utilize sonic waves (like Stryker did to all those mutants near the mansion) to knock him out.
 
Just saw it. That's the other thing. Apocalypse Stryker uses a way to restrict powers (electromagnetic fields) without applying all those individual restraints outside of Wolvie in a metal coffin.

Yes, we have seen that electrical fields can restrict/restrain mutants and their powers - like the cell with the kids at the dam back in X2 (it zapped them when they touched the walls), the field that stopped Nightcrawler teleporting out of Stryker's copter in XM:A and the cell Stryker held them all in at the dam, and the lightning Storm used to disrupt Apoc's teleportation bubble at the end of XM:A.

This suggests Storm and Magneto should be able to create similar disruptions - or alter/affect such man-made fields.

Logan has the Reavers utilize sonic waves (like Stryker did to all those mutants near the mansion) to knock him out.

If they'd kept Banshee alive, he would have been able to use his powers in similar ways. Banshee could have been an interesting character in terms of powers, but he was dispensed with. At some point we will see Black Bolt brought to life and Banshee will then seem a wasted opportunity.
 
X-Men V Fantastic 4 would be so cool if only the reboot was a success and if the X-Men's stories as a group aren't being told in the 20th century setting. Oh well.
 
Yes, we have seen that electrical fields can restrict/restrain mutants and their powers - like the cell with the kids at the dam back in X2 (it zapped them when they touched the walls), the field that stopped Nightcrawler teleporting out of Stryker's copter in XM:A and the cell Stryker held them all in at the dam, and the lightning Storm used to disrupt Apoc's teleportation bubble at the end of XM:A.

This suggests Storm and Magneto should be able to create similar disruptions - or alter/affect such man-made fields.
I genuinely thought this was the first. So, pretty glad there's precedence.
My point was that plot-wise, the actual details to similar sounding events make the difference
in a universe that introduced a multiverse kind of timetravel.

If they'd kept Banshee alive, he would have been able to use his powers in similar ways. Banshee could have been an interesting character in terms of powers, but he was dispensed with. At some point we will see Black Bolt brought to life and Banshee will then seem a wasted opportunity.
Not one to cry over it. Just means Banshee would be best suited for the opposition. Being declared dead on a piece of paper, doesn't mean he isn't hold up somewhere. If he actually IS dead, I'm sure there are mutants and storylines that can revive him Or Banshee Jr.
 
The 20th Century Fox that produced X-Men Origins: Wolverine is not the same 20th Century Fox that produced Deadpool.

Since then the micro-managing Tom Rothman (who has a very singular and faulty vision of how a commercial movie should be and be made) has left the studio, and with him several other execs. And you can see a boost in quality not only regarding their comic book adaptations, but also their overall output.

In addition to that, even under the new regime the studio needed some convincing to make Deadpool. And you gotta consider that R-rated comic book adaptations rarely had any success, so considering statistics it WAS a risky project.

But you know what? They ended making the movie, and supported it 100%. Sure, they asked for a slight budget cut (which led to the creation of one of the movie's funniest running gag), but they DID allow Tim Miller, Ryan Reynolds, Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick to make the movie they wanted to. They allowed them to make a hard-boiled, raunchy, R-rated, mid-budget R-rated action-comedy based on a Marvel comic book, in an age in which studios push for mostly formulaic, safe, homogenized movies ("The Avengers made a billion dollars? Let's just make movies like The Avengers!"). They could've asked for a more generic take on the character, which would've shared more similarities with other successful and popular comic book adaptations. They could've pushed for a safer movie, but they didn't. And man, if they didn't support the movie 100% before its release. They could've just burnt it off, like many other studios do with movies at that price tag these days. They didn't, they promoted it just as strongly as they do with their tentpoles.

As with every other studio, some projects just end up being difficult and not working (I'm talking about the Fantastic Four reboot), and there are multiple reasons for that.

Sure, it's annoying as a fan when a movie doesn't work. If it were for me, every comic book adaptation should be just spectacular. But guess what? They aren't. Not at 20th Century Fox, not at Marvel Studios, not at Warner Bros., not at any studio.

So could we PLEASE start using another tape, 'cause after all these years it would be nice if people actually would inform themselves about the movie-making business and studios behind these movies, instead of making dated statements, which connect their personal dissatisfaction with some elements of these movies to the days Tom Rothman and his team made X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

So this movie won't perfectly connect with the other fifty X-Men movies? Which means the evil organization bankrolled by Rupert Murdoch is again working on destroying all of our beloved stories? :whatever:

They've once again taken a bold step to support James Mangold and Hugh Jackman's vision of an Unforgiven-like final tale for the character of Wolverine, instead of playing it safe and making 'just another superhero movie'? Wonderful! In this day and age we should celebrate a major studio which makes bold and decision and support filmmakers who want to try and make something unique and fresh? And so what if it doesn't exactly line up on that chart you create on your Microsoft Office files once you get back home? In those two hours you sit in theaters you have the chance to witness something which has a somewhat different taste and look, something which could possibly surprise you the way Deadpool did, and the way most movies which had a true impact did.

Thank God for variety. Thank God for movies which focus more on the individual story they're telling, instead of feeling like yet another episode in an infinite series.

If you don't like this approach, and if inter-connectivity matters so much to you, just watch the Marvel Studios movies, which seem to be doing just fine in that regard.

P.S.: Tim Miller left Deadpool 2 because of creative differences with Ryan Reynolds, and seems to be perfectly happy collaborating with 20th Century Fox, considering that one of his next projects is set up there, and was the first thing he started working on once he left the sequel. (Smart) information first, discussion second. This way we could turn fanboy-moaning into an actual discussion about movies and filmmaking.

while deadpool will never be my favorate x related film but still better than
many MCU films.the problem is everyone wanting every x related film exactly like Deadpool.

it took 7 years to make first X-Men after fox opotioned it.the rothman era
was terrable at fox-both ff films,elektra,last stand and origins.noone here who is fan of X-men films not last stand or origins is defending those
films.

Donner fought for years to get deadpool made and it's well known she wanted r rating.remember before deadpool reynolds was box office poison.
so what matters is they made film.doing r rated film with first time
director,and with reynolds.all of that was fox taking a chance.

I also find it amusing that people claim fox didn't have anything to do with deadpool they only made it because the leaked footage made fans forced them to.the idea fox could be forced to do anything.if that was true they would have stopped making x films after origins:cwink: fox isn't a charity.
58 million is still a fair amount of money.at disney we would never have gotten the r rated elements of deadpool including sex montage :woot:

and now we are getting a wolverine film with r rated violence many wanted
including likely X-23 possibly killing people:woot: and with deadpool the r rated violence.

comic book film adaptian are like adaptian of novels and even tv shows.they won't be the same.I never care how outfits are adapted.i am not huge fan of ultimates but i never make fact they used ultimate cap outfit for captain
America trilogy my favorate MCU series.DCEU has most accurate batman outfit but only die hard DCEU fans would claim BVS is better film than
burton batman films or the nolan dark knight trilogy.
 
I never care how outfits are adapted.i am not huge fan of ultimates but i never make fact they used ultimate cap outfit for captain
America trilogy my favorate MCU series.

You know damn well Ultimate Cap Outfit is closer than anything FoX ever tried with X-MEN main films.
 
The 20th Century Fox that produced X-Men Origins: Wolverine is not the same 20th Century Fox that produced Deadpool.

Since then the micro-managing Tom Rothman (who has a very singular and faulty vision of how a commercial movie should be and be made) has left the studio, and with him several other execs. And you can see a boost in quality not only regarding their comic book adaptations, but also their overall output.

In addition to that, even under the new regime the studio needed some convincing to make Deadpool. And you gotta consider that R-rated comic book adaptations rarely had any success, so considering statistics it WAS a risky project.

But you know what? They ended making the movie, and supported it 100%. Sure, they asked for a slight budget cut (which led to the creation of one of the movie's funniest running gag), but they DID allow Tim Miller, Ryan Reynolds, Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick to make the movie they wanted to. They allowed them to make a hard-boiled, raunchy, R-rated, mid-budget R-rated action-comedy based on a Marvel comic book, in an age in which studios push for mostly formulaic, safe, homogenized movies ("The Avengers made a billion dollars? Let's just make movies like The Avengers!"). They could've asked for a more generic take on the character, which would've shared more similarities with other successful and popular comic book adaptations. They could've pushed for a safer movie, but they didn't. And man, if they didn't support the movie 100% before its release. They could've just burnt it off, like many other studios do with movies at that price tag these days. They didn't, they promoted it just as strongly as they do with their tentpoles.

As with every other studio, some projects just end up being difficult and not working (I'm talking about the Fantastic Four reboot), and there are multiple reasons for that.

Sure, it's annoying as a fan when a movie doesn't work. If it were for me, every comic book adaptation should be just spectacular. But guess what? They aren't. Not at 20th Century Fox, not at Marvel Studios, not at Warner Bros., not at any studio.

So could we PLEASE start using another tape, 'cause after all these years it would be nice if people actually would inform themselves about the movie-making business and studios behind these movies, instead of making dated statements, which connect their personal dissatisfaction with some elements of these movies to the days Tom Rothman and his team made X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

So this movie won't perfectly connect with the other fifty X-Men movies? Which means the evil organization bankrolled by Rupert Murdoch is again working on destroying all of our beloved stories? :whatever:

They've once again taken a bold step to support James Mangold and Hugh Jackman's vision of an Unforgiven-like final tale for the character of Wolverine, instead of playing it safe and making 'just another superhero movie'? Wonderful! In this day and age we should celebrate a major studio which makes bold and decision and support filmmakers who want to try and make something unique and fresh? And so what if it doesn't exactly line up on that chart you create on your Microsoft Office files once you get back home? In those two hours you sit in theaters you have the chance to witness something which has a somewhat different taste and look, something which could possibly surprise you the way Deadpool did, and the way most movies which had a true impact did.

Thank God for variety. Thank God for movies which focus more on the individual story they're telling, instead of feeling like yet another episode in an infinite series.

If you don't like this approach, and if inter-connectivity matters so much to you, just watch the Marvel Studios movies, which seem to be doing just fine in that regard.

P.S.: Tim Miller left Deadpool 2 because of creative differences with Ryan Reynolds, and seems to be perfectly happy collaborating with 20th Century Fox, considering that one of his next projects is set up there, and was the first thing he started working on once he left the sequel. (Smart) information first, discussion second. This way we could turn fanboy-moaning into an actual discussion about movies and filmmaking.

That's all well and good but the true test of whether Logan, or indeed Deadpool 2, have delivered the goods will be critical reception, box office, and fanboy love online.

Nothing inherently wrong with an Unforgiven/Mad Max vibe to Logan (though, honestly, those influences were glaringly obvious to me... and the Old Man Logan comic already had a Wild West tone anyway...so I'm not exactly feeling the sense of fresh and original if it has obvious influences from other stuff).

I don't like what I've read about the X-Men being wiped out and the way it happened, it casts a very bleak shadow over any films set earlier if we know that's what becomes of them. And, as I suspected, there is a lack of co-ordination over character usage, etc. No one is overseeing in a Feige-like role.

I don't want the films to feel like episodes or like Marvel, but I want to feel that there is some sort of planning and co-ordination.
 
And I very much like this stand-alone approach which allows for greater freedom, and the fact that the movies are mostly guided by the directors' vision, rather than a Kevin Feige-like figure. So...

Who's right? Who's wrong? Both, and no one. It's just a matter of taste.
 
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