The Dark Knight Rises Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate II

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]351967[/split]

 

[Yurka]

"Cotillard will appear as Miranda Tate, a Wayne Enterprises board member eager to help a still-grieving Bruce Wayne resume his father's philanthropic endeavors for Gotham."

Discuss.

 

[Majik1387]

I love how it's the newbies so adamant that Tate is Talia.

 

[DaveMoral]

I love how it's the newbies so adamant that Tate is Talia.

As if that's at all a relevant measure of the validity of an idea.

 

[Majik1387]

Considering the responses I've seen in the other thread, yes, it does.

 

[MiniBond]

"Cotillard will appear as Miranda Tate, a Wayne Enterprises board member eager to help a still-grieving Bruce Wayne resume his father's philanthropic endeavors for Gotham."

Discuss.

sounds like an essay at school !

 

[Victarion]

I'm not too big a fan of Tate being Talia. Its been said by others that it'd make Bruce look stupid (being that Ra's already pulled a similar stunt in BB). How exactly would it make Bruce look stupid? He'd have no reason to suspect her of being Talia.

 

[StarLord]

I don't think she's the 'Biggest Star In The World' but I do like her.

Nothing wrong with Nolan picking someone who he is familiar with for this role.

After all, he's cast JG-L and Hardy too.

 

[TheBatman072]

I'm not too big a fan of Tate being Talia. Its been said by others that it'd make Bruce look stupid (being that Ra's already pulled a similar stunt in BB). How exactly would it make Bruce look stupid? He'd have no reason to suspect her of being Talia.

It doesn't make Bruce look stupid. It makes Bruce look incompetent.

Bruce, or Fox for that matter, doesn't just hire somebody because they've got experience for the job. They look DEEP. VERY deep. And are capable of recognizing inconsistencies and dummy companies and aliases.

Take Lau's meeting at Wayne Ent. and Bruce's and Fox's conversation about Lau's dirty dealings after the meeting.

Bruce had already looked into Lau well before the meeting and had sufficient evidence to Lau being dirty.

Bruce spent months to maybe even years with the LoS. He knows their methods, and it stands to reason he can recognize patterns.

Looking into tate's past, he'd be able to spot little things here and there that would make him suspicious. Digging deeper into those things, the picture would become much clearer.

And besides all that, Tate revealing herself to be Talia would suck because it would be almost exactly like Ducard revealing himself to be Ra's. And in order for Tate being Talia to have any story resonance at all, she'd have to be the mastermind behind Bane and Wayne's current troubles. Which would completely invalidate Bane as a villain and as a character. Relegating him to attack dog status.

 

[sly]

I believe it was about a week ago, you and I were exchanging some words in the Marion thread about her being Talia. All what you kept saying was something like "I know she's going to be in the movie and I'll shove it in your face when it's confirmed. I will even run around dressed like Talia in the streets and at super market".

And you obviously missed the light hearted jab because everyone on this board is so nerdishly tightly wound.

I just found it laughable because I haven't seen any of these good arguments.

Repost, but...


Joey King WAS in India for filming...

http://www.openbookcastinglive.com/M...9180210796.pdf (page 43/44)

Location: India
Start Date: Late April

[YOUNG GIRL] 10 year old Caucasian girl. She's a strong, tough kid who also
happens to be very articulate and smart...


And check this out from NolanFans.com:

http://www.nolanfans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5648&start=470#ixzz1QPOuevip

MagnarTheGreat's post (second on the page) under the spoiler tags. He lists all the proof known that Joey King was in India... and the "so far" evidence Tate = Talia.

I'll post this... but he actually has links to everything:

Part I – The Not-So-Distant Past

Variety reported on February 8th, 2010, that Marion Cotillard was in talks to join the film Contagion (principal photography would be underway by October 27th, 2010, and Cotillard was spotted filming in mid-January 2011.) On May 11th, 2010, Variety reported that Colin Farrell and Cotillard were newly attached to the film Cosmopolis and were cast as the roles of husband and wife and were due to start filming in March 2011 (it would actually later begin principal photography on May 23rd, 2011.)

Less than a month after Deadline broke the news of Tom Hardy's casting in The Dark Knight Rises, on November 11th, 2010, Deadline broke the story of “Chris Nolan To Meet Actresses For Batman 3” and that the writer was told “one of the roles is a love interest for Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne, and the other is a villain.” Farrell dropped out of Cosmopolis before January 5th, 2011, and was replaced by Robert Pattinson in the husband role. Sources told The Hollywood Reporter in an article published on January 11th that one of the two female leads for The Dark Knight Rises was Talia al Ghul. In neither Deadline's report nor The Hollywood Reporter's report was Cotillard's name mentioned as testing for either of the two roles.

Warner Brothers announced Anne Hathaway was cast as Selina Kyle on January 19th and that Tom Hardy was cast as Bane. On January 20th, a day after initial reports, a rep for Cotillard confirmed to Entertainment Weekly that she dropped out of filming Cosmopolis, and claimed it was due to scheduling conflicts and not because of her newly-announced pregnancy (Cotillard would give birth on May 19th, making the likely time of conception in August 2010.)

The February 9th Fox Hills Green (The Dark Knight Rises) casting call was looking for a “10 year old Caucasian girl. She's a strong, tough kid who also happens to be very articulate and smart...” and a young man “20s, Caucasian, tall, lanky and strong with dirty blonde hair and strong features...” for the India shoot. The 2nd largest French newspaper, Le Figaro, reported on February 11th that Cotillard closed a deal to be in The Dark Knight Rises; The Hollywood Reporter reported “discussions” three days later with a proposed start time of mid-June and ending in mid-November, but not a confirmation.

Young actress Joey King received a callback scheduled for March 8th for a film—either The Dark Knight Rises, Oz: The Great And Powerful, or an unknown film. King tweeted about secrets she wanted to tell on April 6th; Josh Pence was revealed to be cast as young Ra's al Ghul for flashback scenes two days later by The Hollywood Reporter. On April 9th, King announced she was heading to London at the end of May. (See “Part III – The Studio's Line” for the rest of this time period.)

Part II – India and the United Kingdom

The Times of India reported that the Nolan production crew would start coming into India on May 1st; no actor but Bale was suspected at the time. King tweeted she was leaving the United States on May 2nd to film an undisclosed project. Mehul Gohil of India, snapped Pence's photo there and later repeatedly claimed he and his cohort(s) saw her on set in India on The Dark KnightRises Community on Facebook. On June 3rd, a Nolan Fans forum member (and author of this post) happened upon information putting King and some of her family in India before London by source(s) that know the matter.

Ignoring the Lazarus Pit stuff or not, according to The Times of India, Pence was reported to have gone to the U.K. with Nolan and Bale after the India shoot on May 9th and his whereabouts since are unknown. A May 19th Warner Brothers' press release stated that principal photography had begun on The Dark Knight Rises. Variety broke the initial King casting story on May 20th and King confirmed it on Twitter. It was then that visual connections of King to Cotillard were made, as well as the noticing of King's haircolor change and style since mid-April.

King and her sister tweeted their departure from Los Angeles on May 21st for London Heathrow Airport in the U.K. The Cardington hangers in Bedforshire were revving up for filming before May 18th and May 21st. King gets asked a question on Twitter about the India filming on May 24th and gives no public response. King tweeted that she left the English countryside and headed into London on May 27th and was taking photos and sight-seeing with her older sister Kelli who is there with her. King said she visited Paris, France, on the weekend. After the 29th is radio silence as it is until June 3rd when she posted what appeared to be an old photo (matching her April 19th hairstyle from before filming began and the same shirt) and publiclyacknowledged for the first time she was filming for The Dark Knight Rises. And then radio silence again after that. On June 7th, she tweeted she would have to remove the decorations on her nails for filming on that day.

Part III – The Studio's Line

And in the other corner as opposing evidence, you have Warner Brothers' press releases which mention a Selina Kyle (January 19th) and a Miranda Tate (April 19th) and no Catwoman or Talia. The April 19th press release states “Cotillard will appear as Miranda Tate, a Wayne Enterprises board member eager to help a still-grieving Bruce Wayne resume his father’s philanthropic endeavors for Gotham.” Nolan commented, “When you collaborate with people as talented as Marion and Joe, it comes as no surprise that you would want to repeat the experience. I immediately thought of them for the roles of Miranda and Blake, and I am looking forward to working with both of them again.” Variety felt burned over their March 19th Alberto Falcone for Joseph Gordon-Levitt casting prediction, and one of their writers declared “We're onto you, Chris” and “something batty going on here” in dubious reaction to the April 19th press release.

Part IV – Cotillard's Quotes

In an interview with the Los Angeles Times' 24 Frames posted May 4th, Cotillard stated, "My role is a secret, as is the whole project." She later commented about her involvement with The Dark Knight Rises in a translated interview posted on May 7th with French Madame Figaro, “...it’s a small role and a very comfortable one for a new mother.”

Part V – The Just Plain Weird and Dubious

On August 22nd, 2010, a professed former Warner Brothers intern made a claim to website ComicBookMovie.com: “was apparently told today by someone they met during that time that the actress has been approached by the studio to play either Selina Kyle or Talia al Ghul” and that Cotillard had to turn down the roles due to prior commitments. The original source for this claim has since been erased. [Oh No They Didn't!]

On February 5th, 2011, website Batman-On-Film.com reported “A little birdie with a red breast tells BOF that a THE DARK KNIGHT RISES casting call has gone out for a "European actress."” It has since been deleted from the website. [ComicBookMovie.com]

On May 15th, a “King fan” Twitter account referenced a phone call about King filming a movie. Soon after, the same account said she got a part in a new movie and was then filming in England. King tweeted her intention to visit England on April 9th; Variety did not break the story of King's casting in The Dark Knight Rises until May 20th; King did not report leaving for England until May 21st; and she didn't confirm the trip was for filming the movie until June 3rd.

Part VI – Future

On May 25th, Variety reported Joey King was cast as China Girl in Oz: The Great And Powerful, due to start production in July. On May 31st, Deadline reported Marion Cotillard was cast in Low Life, due to start production in 2012.


My assessment:
Most of us can agree that Joey King looks like Marion Cotillard. Now we know it's pretty well documented that Joey King was filming in India and London... so she obviously is not just playing some kid on the street. When you add in the fact of Ra's appearance in the movie, Talia's "exotic" look in the comics vs Cotillard's look, Bane's connection to Talia in the comics, and the al Ghul name already establishing their ability to use false identities in Nolan's Batman universe, how can you say we're grasping at straws thinking Miranda Tate has at the very least a good chance to reveal herself as Talia?

 

[TheBatman072]

Part IV – Cotillard's Quotes

In an interview with the Los Angeles Times' 24 Frames posted May 4th, Cotillard stated, "My role is a secret, as is the whole project." She later commented about her involvement with The Dark Knight Rises in a translated interview posted on May 7th with French Madame Figaro, “...it’s a small role and a very comfortable one for a new mother.”

This is the biggest smoking gun. Right here.

No way is she Talia if she has a "small role." No way. Her revealed to be Talia at some point probably near the climax of the movie would have no impact AT ALL if her role is small.

And yes, she said her role was secret I think BEFORE her roll was announced. Which amounts to diddley sqaut because EVERYBODY'S role is secret in this film. Doesn't mean they're going to be revealed as a villain at some point in the movie.

 

[sly]

All what we're doing is explaining why we believe there's no reason to think she will be in the film....

And all we're saying is there *are* reasons, but you keep saying those reasons are "valid" enough because a press release stated Marion Cotillard was playing Miranda Tate and not Talia al Ghul.

That pretty much covers it.

 

[DaveMoral]

This is the biggest smoking gun. Right here.

No way is she Talia if she has a "small role." No way. Her revealed to be Talia at some point probably near the climax of the movie would have no impact AT ALL if her role is small.

And yes, she said her role was secret I think BEFORE her roll was announced. Which amounts to diddley sqaut because EVERYBODY'S role is secret in this film. Doesn't mean they're going to be revealed as a villain at some point in the movie.

Personally, I can't help but wonder what "small" even means in this context. Marion isn't exactly a low profile actress, and frankly the role they have announced Miranda Tate as doesn't sound like it can be all that small anyway. We are likely going to see a lot of her being an assistant to Wayne in his philanthropic enterprises. So if that role were "small" in the sense that she's not an overwhelming presence like a Bane will be, but a consistent presence like Lucius Fox(who I would not consider a huge role) and there were some strange problems going on during this philanthropic projects that end up not reflecting on Wayne very well and in the climax she's revealed to be Talia that would have a huge impact. I don't think "small" really rules anything out. I highly doubt she's a one or two scene role. It may just not require her to be far from her baby or absent for many many hours.

Regardless, it seems people haven't ruled out that Miranda Tate could end up being a romantic interest for Bruce... let alone her character just as Miranda Tate and no one being some kind of big influence on Bruce and his decision making for Batman. As I recall that's one of the objections to the Talia speculation, Tate could be just as important in her own right. How does that factor into the "small role" statement? Either way I can't help but think "small role" doesn't mean what some construe it to mean.

 

[lililatigresse]

Whether you believe they're strong facts or not, that's your own opinion. But at least their facts are based on SOMETHING.

By the way, I don't know where this dictators stuff is coming from. All what we're doing is explaining why we believe there's no reason to think she will be in the film.... because some people are going as far as verifying that Miranda Tate IS Talia, which is ridiculous. It sounds like you're trying to say that no one's allowed to disagree with you, which sounds quite hypocritical. This is a message board, right? Don't take things so personal....

What intrigues me is the fact that for the filming in India, they wanted 2 caucasian actors: a young man and a young girl. I had the intuition because of the description they gave of him that the young man was suppose to be a young Liam. But weirdly people did not discuss it.
And then we learned that the young man was indeed a young Ra's. So the first thing that comes to my mind is that the young girl is Talia. And I could be wrong but I know it's not a stupid thought.

In my opinion the fact there's a child with a young Ra's, a girl, is enough to speculate on the fact that this girl could be Talia. Why a young Talia if we don't see her as an adult....And there's the fact that the actress look like Marion and those little things... and people keep saying Marion said that her role was small but Liam had a rather small role too and he was still Ra's. And if people want to be literal, she also said her role was a secret.....

I don't take things personal, so I don't see how I could take things "so personal".
My problem is how I feel like some people here refuse us the right to talk about the possibility of Tate being Talia, how it's not interesting or relevant. Who are they to decide what people should talk about, what is interesting and what's not ?
I found some discussions here boring. But I don't keep telling people they should not talk about it because I think they can do whatever they want even if it bores me. That's where the dictator stuff is coming from.

 

[Nevincer]

Hey guys... guys!

Billion dollar idea here!

Get this... a villain in the movie...

You with me so far? A villain in the movie, masquerading as... wait for it...

An ALLY to Bruce Wayne!!!

Brilliant right? No one will see it coming.

But that's not all... remember that guy in the first movie who was played by Liam Neeson?

Well turns out, this villain is his daughter! And she wants to avenge her father's death!

Is that cool or what? It brings it full circle! The perfect trilogy!

 

[GrimmReaper7]

Hey guys... guys!

Billion dollar idea here!

Get this... a villain in the movie...

You with me so far? A villain in the movie, masquerading as... wait for it...

An ALLY to Bruce Wayne!!!

Brilliant right? No one will see it coming.

But that's not all... remember that guy in the first movie who was played by Liam Neeson?

Well turns out, this villain is his daughter! And she wants to avenge her father's death!

Is that cool or what? It brings it full circle! The perfect trilogy!

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Hmmm, it's hard to say if Marion's role in this film will truly be 'small' (especially for an Oscar winner), but stranger things have happened. Cotillard has yet to be spotted on the set whereas Hathaway, Bale, Freeman, Oldman and Caine have. Then again, Hardy has only been seen once on set (according to a few unreliable sources).

Anywho, Nolan didn't necessarily give, us the fans, a twist in TDK either, so would should we expect one?.

Tate could end up being Talia... or maybe not. Personally, I could do without Talia al Ghul in the film -- Bane and Catwoman (along with 'Nixon' and a 'Mad' Scientist) already occupy the film's attention.

 

[Majik1387]

Don't even try using the Oscar winner excuse.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

What excuse?

Personally, I don't see the point of doing a couple of scenes after having a baby in a summer blockbuster. That's just my opinion though.

Am I saying she will be Talia? No. BUT I do believe her role will have a much bigger impact than we speculate.

 

[GrimmReaper7]

Hmmm, it's hard to say if Marion's role in this film will truly be 'small' (especially for an Oscar winner)QUOTE]

Caine and Freeman are both Oscar winners and they only had about 20 minutes of screen time combined in TDK. Plus Caine was only in one scene in Inception which was like barely 2 minutes...so thats not really a strong argument

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Furthermore, Nolan could have gone with someone else but he waited for Marion's response.

 

[Majik1387]

Thank you Grimm.

Also keep in mind, Bale hadn't won an Oscar prior to this year, and Oldman still hasn't won one. I'd say they have the more dramatic and larger roles in the series.

 

[Gianakin_]

Personally, I don't see the point of doing a couple of scenes after having a baby in a summer blockbuster. That's just my opinion though.

Why not? I realize she's probably gonna be in a handful of scenes, but the movie's still a paycheck, a chance to be in a big franchise, as well as a way to keep in touch with the business.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Hmmm, it's hard to say if Marion's role in this film will truly be 'small' (especially for an Oscar winner)QUOTE]

Caine and Freeman are both Oscar winners and they only had about 20 minutes of screen time combined in TDK. Plus Caine was only in one scene in Inception which was like barely 2 minutes...so thats not really a strong argument

Well, Caine did state in an interview that he wasn't going to be an important part of the film (Inception).

And we certainly knew what to expect when Nolan casted Caine as Alfred and Freeman as Fox. Although to be fair, both Caine and Freeman had bigger roles in BB than in TDK.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Why not? I realize she's probably gonna be in a handful of scenes, but the movie's still a paycheck, a chance to be in a big franchise, as well as a way to keep in touch with the business.

True but I would think she would want this time to be with her newborn. Most actresses take an entire year off.