The Last Jedi Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker (VIII)

[TheVileOne]

I think had Luke not died at the end, the reaction would not have been quite as extreme. Brother Jack, your description of it being like emotional whiplash is pretty strong.

 

[Frodo]

I think had Luke not died at the end, the reaction would not have been quite as extreme.

Maybe, but then again, the reaction still would have been extreme given that alot of fans disagreed with everything leading up to his death anyway.

If fans who didn't like TLJ had gotten a story that they were more receptive to and a version of Luke they liked more, there probably wouldn't have been as big a backlash to him dying.

Its speculation at this point, but I tend to think had Luke been portrayed in a way that alot of the fans were expecting or hoping and he died, then I don't think the reaction to the film would have been extreme.

 

[TheVileOne]

Maybe, but then again, the reaction still would have been extreme given that alot of fans disagreed with everything leading up to his death anyway.

If fans who didn't like TLJ had gotten a story that they were more receptive to and a version of Luke they liked more, there probably wouldn't have been as big a backlash to him dying.

Its speculation at this point, but I tend to think had Luke been portrayed in a way that alot of the fans were expecting or hoping and he died, then I don't think the reaction to the film would have been extreme.

OK but what do you think gets fixed? Luke's exile or the shame of him attempting to kill is nephew for a fleeting moment?

Should Luke not have been in self-imposed exile at all? Otherwise, why would he be lost and missing? It seemed clear in Force Awakens he left because he felt ashamed for what happened to Ben Solo.

 

[herolee10]

I think had Luke not died at the end, the reaction would not have been quite as extreme. Brother Jack, your description of it being like emotional whiplash is pretty strong.

Pretty much.

Had Luke survived the events of TLJ, then there would have at least been some hope to do him justice in the next installment, let alone salvage his character and the Skywalker legacy.

Also, in all honesty, I don't fully get the criticism of people saying that anyone who had issues with the usage of Luke in this film are no more than fanboys who simply didn't just get their way (fan-fiction).

I see that criticism applied especially when it comes to anyone explaining on how they were disappointed with the fact that we never got to truly see Luke in action.

Honestly, after 40 years of not seeing Luke on the big screen and with the importance that they placed in locating his character for TFA, you can't tell me that it's not considered a HUGE waste of potential/missed opportunity to not present a scenario where we get to see Luke in action (where he isn't a freaking hologram) back on the big screen.

I mean it's the same issues that most fans had with Superman in "Superman Returns". With all of the technology that they had at their disposal back in 2006 and with how long the character had been absent from the big screen, bringing Superman back and not having a physical villain for him to fight was considered a joke by a lot of people back then, let alone a wasted opportunity.

Would anyone here really be against seeing something like Luke and Rey fighting alongside each other against the Knights of Ren or the Imperial guards?

When it comes to the content of THIS particular story, then yeah, I guess it'd make sense for Luke to be presented in the pacifist way that he was. But my argument towards that is was this the BEST story that they could have told regarding the character? And was it the right one? Most fans would probably be divided on that one, if not say otherwise.

 

[herolee10]

Maybe, but then again, the reaction still would have been extreme given that alot of fans disagreed with everything leading up to his death anyway.

If fans who didn't like TLJ had gotten a story that they were more receptive to and a version of Luke they liked more, there probably wouldn't have been as big a backlash to him dying.

Its speculation at this point, but I tend to think had Luke been portrayed in a way that alot of the fans were expecting or hoping and he died, then I don't think the reaction to the film would have been extreme.

I think what bothers quite a few people, including myself, is that now with Luke gone, there's no hope for redeeming the Skywalker name/legacy within the Star Wars universe.

When Kylo Ren dies, he will be the last of the Skywalker lineage and I seriously doubt that he'll be redeemed.

So overall, the legacy of the Skywalkers will be marked as utter failures.

 

[Frodo]

OK but what do you think gets fixed? Luke's exile or the shame of him attempting to kill is nephew for a fleeting moment?

Should Luke not have been in self-imposed exile at all? Otherwise, why would he be lost and missing? It seemed clear in Force Awakens he left because he felt ashamed for what happened to Ben Solo.

Yeah... I really don't care about what could have been , what should have been etc. The film is what it is, and I'm not gonna rewrite TFA or TLJ.

I was fine with what Johnson did with Luke in TLJ. I didn't think it was great, but then again I haven't been crazy about TFA or TLJ .

I was just explaining what fans who didn't like Luke's characterization had issues with.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think what bothers quite a few people, including myself, is that now with Luke gone, there's no hope for redeeming the Skywalker name/legacy within the Star Wars universe.

When Kylo Ren dies, he will be the last of the Skywalker lineage and I seriously doubt that he'll be redeemed.

So overall, the legacy of the Skywalkers will be marked as utter failures.

No, Luke Skywalker will be remembered as a hero, as TLJ indicates.

 

[Boom]

I think what bothers quite a few people, including myself, is that now with Luke gone, there's no hope for redeeming the Skywalker name/legacy within the Star Wars universe.

?

He saved the Resistance from complete annihilation, and he did so while making the new "Supreme Leader" look like a complete fool.

Obviously the Skywalker name is in perfectly good standing, considering that a bunch of kids were playing with Luke toys.

 

[Mjölnir]

I assume that herolee10 is talking about the legacy in the eyes of the audience, since many significant parts of the Skywalker legacy is unknown to most people in the fictional galaxy.

As it is the Skywalkers haven't done anything good that's lasted. Anakin helped destroy the Jedi and create the Empire, and him finally destroying the Sith apparently hasn't made any difference whatsoever. Snoke seemed just as powerful as Sidious, if not more so, and he came back with the exact same Empire that Luke helped defeat.

Luke helping a few people escape doesn't in any way redeem that he didn't even try to help his nephew when he fell to the dark side, or try to confront the new dark lord when he rose. The very fundamental things that a Jedi, or just a hero like Luke has always been, would do. Hell, in the first case it's what any halfway decent person would do.

So in the end it looks like the Skywalkers just amounted to a new dark lord and that someone else will have to come along to make things right and end their line (although there's still a shred of hope that Kylo Ren will end up differently since it's such anticlimactic writing to go towards him being defeated when that's already happened).

After Lucas' films the Skywalker line was a rough road to something good. Now they are just a blight on the galaxy.

 

[Frodo]

From what I understand, the issue isn't about what the characters in the film think of Luke Skywalker at the end , its more that Luke wasn't portrayed in the way alot of fans wanted.

That seems to be the disconnect between those who liked the film and those who didn't. The fans who liked the film seem to accept Luke's characterization in TLJ or be fine with Johnson's vision of the character in the film, while fans who didn't like the film weren't okay with it .

I haven't seen the point of contention be how the character is viewed in the eyes of outsiders in the film, but more how the character was portrayed for us, the audience.

Its pretty clear he becomes a legend, but that's not the point of controversy. Its the character he is in the film that's split fans.

 

[X Knight]

the fact that Kylo Ren, the villain of the new arc, will be the last of the Skywalker bloodline is what bugs me the most.

it's why, imo, Rey needed to be a Skywalker/Solo. she needed to be part of the bloodline.

or else Kylo needed to be presented as a conflicted anti-hero, like the Apprentice/Starkiller in the Force Unleashed games, who starts out on the dark side but turns to the light over the course of his story arc.

but that's not what we got with Kylo, and him killing his dad in cold blood makes him irredeemable to me.

and Rey was set up to be the protag and main character of the new trilogy, not Kylo.

it would be like if Superman's descendant is the last living member of the House of El ( and Superman ) bloodline. but instead of being a hero like Superman, that descendant is a Zod like tyrannical dictator.

that's not very satisfying to me as a fan of Superman. nor is the situation with Kylo satisfying to me as a Skywalker fan.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I assume that herolee10 is talking about the legacy in the eyes of the audience, since many significant parts of the Skywalker legacy is unknown to most people in the fictional galaxy.

As it is the Skywalkers haven't done anything good that's lasted. Anakin helped destroy the Jedi and create the Empire, and him finally destroying the Sith apparently hasn't made any difference whatsoever. Snoke seemed just as powerful as Sidious, if not more so, and he came back with the exact same Empire that Luke helped defeat.

Luke helping a few people escape doesn't in any way redeem that he didn't even try to help his nephew when he fell to the dark side, or try to confront the new dark lord when he rose. The very fundamental things that a Jedi, or just a hero like Luke has always been, would do. Hell, in the first case it's what any halfway decent person would do.

So in the end it looks like the Skywalkers just amounted to a new dark lord and that someone else will have to come along to make things right and end their line (although there's still a shred of hope that Kylo Ren will end up differently since it's such anticlimactic writing to go towards him being defeated when that's already happened).

After Lucas' films the Skywalker line was a rough road to something good. Now they are just a blight on the galaxy.

the fact that Kylo Ren, the villain of the new arc, will be the last of the Skywalker bloodline is what bugs me the most.

it's why, imo, Rey needed to be a Skywalker/Solo. she needed to be part of the bloodline.

or else Kylo needed to be presented as a conflicted anti-hero, like the Apprentice/Starkiller in the Force Unleashed games, who starts out on the dark side but turns to the light over the course of his story arc.

but that's not what we got with Kylo, and him killing his dad in cold blood makes him irredeemable to me.

and Rey was set up to be the protag and main character of the new trilogy, not Kylo.

it would be like if Superman's descendant is the last living member of the House of El ( and Superman ) bloodline. but instead of being a hero like Superman, that descendant is a Zod like tyrannical dictator.

that's not very satisfying to me as a fan of Superman. nor is the situation with Kylo satisfying to me as a Skywalker fan.

to both of these posts.

 

[Spider-Fan]

the fact that Kylo Ren, the villain of the new arc, will be the last of the Skywalker bloodline is what bugs me the most.

it's why, imo, Rey needed to be a Skywalker/Solo. she needed to be part of the bloodline.

or else Kylo needed to be presented as a conflicted anti-hero, like the Apprentice/Starkiller in the Force Unleashed games, who starts out on the dark side but turns to the light over the course of his story arc.

but that's not what we got with Kylo, and him killing his dad in cold blood makes him irredeemable to me.

and Rey was set up to be the protag and main character of the new trilogy, not Kylo.

it would be like if Superman's descendant is the last living member of the House of El ( and Superman ) bloodline. but instead of being a hero like Superman, that descendant is a Zod like tyrannical dictator.

that's not very satisfying to me as a fan of Superman. nor is the situation with Kylo satisfying to me as a Skywalker fan.

Why must she be part of the bloodline? She spiritually is Luke's successor, so one can say she was adopted into the legacy, which I honestly like more.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Why does the last Skywalker need to be good or pure or a hero? I don't get it. They are just another line of nobles. Not any more special than anyone else.

 

[C. Lee]

I feel sorry for the universe that STAR WARS takes place in.....because to so many of the people on here....the only people that are worth a **** there are the Skywalkers. There are billions of sentient beings in that universe. We know of untold millions that have been able to use the Force. Great users of the Force have come in all races, shapes, colors, and sizes.....but screw that....they weren't a Skywalker.

I personally love Luke, and think he did a fantastic thing in TLJ of overcoming his personal demons to save his sister and the rebels. He performed a Jedi feat that will be (and is) legendary. But he didn't do it simply because of his name. He did it because he was a Jedi.

 

[Mad Ones]

The Skywalkers shouldn't be depicted as a superior bloodline anyway (especially in a franchise that has always been anti-fascist at heart). What Luke taught Rey was more important than what she would get from having his genetics.

 

[Mjölnir]

I feel sorry for the universe that STAR WARS takes place in.....because to so many of the people on here....the only people that are worth a **** there are the Skywalkers. There are billions of sentient beings in that universe. We know of untold millions that have been able to use the Force. Great users of the Force have come in all races, shapes, colors, and sizes.....but screw that....they weren't a Skywalker.

I personally love Luke, and think he did a fantastic thing in TLJ of overcoming his personal demons to save his sister and the rebels. He performed a Jedi feat that will be (and is) legendary. But he didn't do it simply because of his name. He did it because he was a Jedi.

It's not Star Wars that's about the Skywalkers, it's the saga films. It's referred to as the Skywalker Saga for a reason. That doesn't mean that the other characters in there are irrelevant, but there's always main protagonists and some characters carry the most importance in a story. No one complained that the Skywalkers weren't important in Rogue One, or that they won't be in Solo.

I'm all about seeing new Star Wars films that have nothing to do with the Skywalker Saga, but name them something different if that's what you want to do. Don't try to bring in the easy bucks by calling it the same and then divert from the concept, that just messes up the structure from what was before. If you want to do something new, be creative and go in a new direction all the way.

 

[BatLobster]

It's not as if the Skywalkers were eliminated from the story. Luke's legend is inspiring the galaxy, and he'll likely be back as a force ghost. Kylo's ultimate fate is still TDB. Sadly, Leia's story would've continued and now probably won't. Even so, Ben Solo will determine the fate of the Skywalker bloodline now.

I think TLJ shook things up a bit, but the legacy of the Skywalkers is still a through-line of the saga that will conclude in IX.

 

[herolee10]

I assume that herolee10 is talking about the legacy in the eyes of the audience, since many significant parts of the Skywalker legacy is unknown to most people in the fictional galaxy.

As it is the Skywalkers haven't done anything good that's lasted. Anakin helped destroy the Jedi and create the Empire, and him finally destroying the Sith apparently hasn't made any difference whatsoever. Snoke seemed just as powerful as Sidious, if not more so, and he came back with the exact same Empire that Luke helped defeat.

Luke helping a few people escape doesn't in any way redeem that he didn't even try to help his nephew when he fell to the dark side, or try to confront the new dark lord when he rose. The very fundamental things that a Jedi, or just a hero like Luke has always been, would do. Hell, in the first case it's what any halfway decent person would do.

So in the end it looks like the Skywalkers just amounted to a new dark lord and that someone else will have to come along to make things right and end their line (although there's still a shred of hope that Kylo Ren will end up differently since it's such anticlimactic writing to go towards him being defeated when that's already happened).

After Lucas' films the Skywalker line was a rough road to something good. Now they are just a blight on the galaxy.

the fact that Kylo Ren, the villain of the new arc, will be the last of the Skywalker bloodline is what bugs me the most.

it's why, imo, Rey needed to be a Skywalker/Solo. she needed to be part of the bloodline.

or else Kylo needed to be presented as a conflicted anti-hero, like the Apprentice/Starkiller in the Force Unleashed games, who starts out on the dark side but turns to the light over the course of his story arc.

but that's not what we got with Kylo, and him killing his dad in cold blood makes him irredeemable to me.

and Rey was set up to be the protag and main character of the new trilogy, not Kylo.

it would be like if Superman's descendant is the last living member of the House of El ( and Superman ) bloodline. but instead of being a hero like Superman, that descendant is a Zod like tyrannical dictator.

that's not very satisfying to me as a fan of Superman. nor is the situation with Kylo satisfying to me as a Skywalker fan.

 

[herolee10]

It's not as if the Skywalkers were eliminated from the story. Luke's legend is inspiring the galaxy, and he'll likely be back as a force ghost. Kylo's ultimate fate is still TDB. Sadly, Leia's story would've continued and now probably won't. Even so, Ben Solo will determine the fate of the Skywalker bloodline now.

I think TLJ shook things up a bit, but the legacy of the Skywalkers is still a through-line of the saga that will conclude in IX.

Like others have said before, Luke was already an Legend during the events of TFA. Considering his achievements from the original trilogy, those actions alone should warrant a lot of people being inspired across the galaxy.

The issues here is that Luke ultimately died a failure. Yes, he saved a few remaining members of the resistance but his failures outweighs that achievement.

He failed to stop Kylo from becoming evil. He didn't even attempt to fight against Smoke and the first order and he ultimately never left the island. Worst of all is that he failed to pass his teachings onto a new generation, let alone successfully revive the Jedi order.

With Kylo the last of the bloodline, once he bites the dust then it is game over for the Skywalker Legacy. If Luke had survived long enough to correct his mistakes then that would have been a different story.

And what's more depressing to think about is that they will probably use Luke's failures to further prop up Rey when she succeeds in the end.

And I think I can honestly say that a lot of people don't care about the idea of Luke coming back as a Force Ghost.

 

[Mad Ones]

It's weird that this conversation just goes around in circles.

 

[Frodo]

It's weird that this conversation just goes around in circles.

Lol. Get use to it.

The endless argument over TLJ is one of the resons I really do think they need to end the saga films, after 9 and start with new saga films unconnected to the OT, PT, and NT.

 

[Drizzle]

The endless argument over TLJ is one of the resons I really do think they need to end the saga films, after 9 and start with new saga films unconnected to the OT, PT, and NT.

I actually think that's what the plan may be with Rian Johnson's trilogy. A story that isn't connected to Episodes I-IX that will be the flagship series within the franchise after Episode IX is released.

Getting back to Luke, I really still have a love/hate relationship with his death in The Last Jedi. On the one hand, Luke becoming one with the Force while watching twin suns set is the absolute perfect way to go out, but I really wish they had saved it for the next movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I actually think that's what the plan may be with Rian Johnson's trilogy. A story that isn't connected to Episodes I-IX that will be the flagship series within the franchise after Episode IX is released.

Getting back to Luke, I really still have a love/hate relationship with his death in The Last Jedi. On the one hand, Luke becoming one with the Force while watching twin suns set is the absolute perfect way to go out, but I really wish they had saved it for the next movie.

This is it, if Luke did what he did at the end of TLJ, and then survived to continue his legacy, and the fight, I wouldn’t have such a problem with it.

But, he gave up on his nephew, despite finding good previously in one of the most evil men in the galaxy, saved a few rebels and apparently ‘became a legend’ by showng up Kylo a little bit.

But that’s all for what was literally the saviour of the universe in ROTJ. In the end it doesn’t feel like he was a saviour, but simply a facilitator for the new Empire, who instead of him fighting, he went off to an island to hide away.

It’s wholly unsatisfying IMO. And this is coming from some who doesn’t hate the movie.

 

[TheVileOne]

I feel like Luke Skywalker breaking out of his funk and accepting that failure was a teacher was a powerful message and then have him accept his role as a teacher who can train someone to become a bigger legend than him. I felt like that would've been a stronger more powerful ending instead of seeing Luke die on that rock, which I didn't get at the time I saw it. I was definitely upset about it. I'm still upset about it really.

It was a letdown that we never got to see Luke get off of Ahch-to.