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The Last Jedi Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker (VIII)

The Skywalkers shouldn't be depicted as a superior bloodline anyway (especially in a franchise that has always been anti-fascist at heart). What Luke taught Rey was more important than what she would get from having his genetics.

I don't get this, either. I honestly blame the PT for this. Yes, Luke was Vader's father, but this Chosen One garbage didn't start until then, and now people think Star Wars can only focus on the Skywalker lineage. If we only had the OT before the new films, then I don't think this debate about the Skywalker bloodline and it being the story of the Saga series is something we would be talking about. Granted, some may still hate Luke's arc regardless, but that element of "But but...the Skywalker blood is tainted!" wouldn't be part of it.

I like Rey coming from nothing and being the spiritual successor to the Jedi a lot more than just slapping some Skywalker blood in her. More original, and is a better message to send people. You don't need special blood to BE special.
 
I will say, in defense of the idea of Rey being a Skywalker...as someone who kind of went into the ST wanting/assuming that to be the case, it was never about wanting the Skywalker lineage to be "royal blood". I mean, Anakin was a screwup with an awful legacy. To me there's a burden in that bloodline too. So I just thought it would make for rich storytelling. It wasn't just about chosen one stuff, for me.

Now, at the same time- I can defend the current direction in that I think having Kylo as the Skywalker heir with entitlement issues, who sees HIMSELF as royal blood, struggling with how to live up to (the wrong part of) his family legacy, contrasting with someone plucked from obscurity who seems to be the spiritual heir to the Jedi is also an interesting way to carry the story into the next generation.
 
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Was Luke the savior of the universe in ROTJ? Pretty sure that was Han & Leia disabling the shield generator and Lando and Wedge blowing up the Death Star.

Truth. In all honesty, the biggest thing Luke did was keep Vader and the Emperor occupied. If Luke was not around, maybe Vader stops Han, etc. But, I def agree, at least in regards to ROTJ. He did blow up Death Star 1 in ANH.
 
Luke wasn't the savoir of the universe in any of the SW films, but he is a pop culture icon. Regardless of his specific actions in any of films, when people think of SW, Luke Skywalker comes to mind along with Vader, Han , Leia, Chewie and the droids.

No disrespect to the other films, but when the GA thinks of SW, its the images of the OT that's burnt into the public consciousness.

Consequently , when you come back 30 years later to make sequels to something so iconic, their are bound to be people who are disappointed.
 
I don't get this, either. I honestly blame the PT for this. Yes, Luke was Vader's father, but this Chosen One garbage didn't start until then, and now people think Star Wars can only focus on the Skywalker lineage. If we only had the OT before the new films, then I don't think this debate about the Skywalker bloodline and it being the story of the Saga series is something we would be talking about. Granted, some may still hate Luke's arc regardless, but that element of "But but...the Skywalker blood is tainted!" wouldn't be part of it.

I like Rey coming from nothing and being the spiritual successor to the Jedi a lot more than just slapping some Skywalker blood in her. More original, and is a better message to send people. You don't need special blood to BE special.

Agreed. I think people forget that when the original trilogy was new, we all watched about 2/3 of it thinking Luke’s father was a Jedi Knight that was killed by Darth Vader. The whole ‘chosen one’ thing came later, as well as the idea that there was even some sort of special Skywalker lineage.

I loved what Rian Johnson said on the blu-ray about why he felt Rey needed to come from no one. He pointed out that the hardest challenge that Luke faced in the original trilogy was finding out that Darth Vader was his father. That the thing he hated was actually part of him. He said that Rey finding out she was a Skywalker or Kenobi wasn’t a challenge - it was exactly the kind of thing that she wanted to hear. He thought it made her a more interesting character for her to need to figure out her own path.

I was all about Rey being a Skywalker when I first saw TFA, but I like the direction they took it in instead. They galaxy shouldn’t have to depend on the Skywalkers to save them from everything. That’s why Luke beat himself up so much when he couldn’t save Ben.
 
Agreed. I think people forget that when the original trilogy was new, we all watched about 2/3 of it thinking Luke’s father was a Jedi Knight that was killed by Darth Vader. The whole ‘chosen one’ thing came later, as well as the idea that there was even some sort of special Skywalker lineage.

I loved what Rian Johnson said on the blu-ray about why he felt Rey needed to come from no one. He pointed out that the hardest challenge that Luke faced in the original trilogy was finding out that Darth Vader was his father. That the thing he hated was actually part of him. He said that Rey finding out she was a Skywalker or Kenobi wasn’t a challenge - it was exactly the kind of thing that she wanted to hear. He thought it made her a more interesting character for her to need to figure out her own path.

I was all about Rey being a Skywalker when I first saw TFA, but I like the direction they took it in instead. They galaxy shouldn’t have to depend on the Skywalkers to save them from everything. That’s why Luke beat himself up so much when he couldn’t save Ben.

All the yes to this :up:

I really loved hearing Rian Johnson's thoughts on this movie in the documentary. I agree with most of what he had to say regarding his creative choices on the film. He was 100% dead on correct on why Rey being a Skywalker was a less interesting choice. Also, we have to remember, not every Jedi comes from a lineage. If they all did, well then no one outside these certain families are special and now the Star Wars universe goes from being this vast place with so many places to explore, to being so much smaller. I also think the message is stronger because Kylo, the villain, is the one with the bloodline, the legacy, loving family, etc. He had all the advantages you could ask for in life, and now he is the villain. Rey came from nothing and had to fight her whole life to get less than a portion of food a day, and now she is our hero. It gives you this idea that heroes come from all walks of life, not just from certain families. Is it a better message to say only certain people matter, or anyone can matter? I know which I like more.
 
Agreed. I think people forget that when the original trilogy was new, we all watched about 2/3 of it thinking Luke’s father was a Jedi Knight that was killed by Darth Vader. The whole ‘chosen one’ thing came later, as well as the idea that there was even some sort of special Skywalker lineage.

I loved what Rian Johnson said on the blu-ray about why he felt Rey needed to come from no one. He pointed out that the hardest challenge that Luke faced in the original trilogy was finding out that Darth Vader was his father. That the thing he hated was actually part of him. He said that Rey finding out she was a Skywalker or Kenobi wasn’t a challenge - it was exactly the kind of thing that she wanted to hear. He thought it made her a more interesting character for her to need to figure out her own path.

I was all about Rey being a Skywalker when I first saw TFA, but I like the direction they took it in instead. They galaxy shouldn’t have to depend on the Skywalkers to save them from everything. That’s why Luke beat himself up so much when he couldn’t save Ben.

The Problem is that Rey is just Anakin 2.0 at this point.
Just that Anakin was created by the Force to restore balance toward the dark sinde and she is to restore balance towards the light.
 
All the yes to this :up:

I really loved hearing Rian Johnson's thoughts on this movie in the documentary. I agree with most of what he had to say regarding his creative choices on the film. He was 100% dead on correct on why Rey being a Skywalker was a less interesting choice. Also, we have to remember, not every Jedi comes from a lineage. If they all did, well then no one outside these certain families are special and now the Star Wars universe goes from being this vast place with so many places to explore, to being so much smaller. I also think the message is stronger because Kylo, the villain, is the one with the bloodline, the legacy, loving family, etc. He had all the advantages you could ask for in life, and now he is the villain. Rey came from nothing and had to fight her whole life to get less than a portion of food a day, and now she is our hero. It gives you this idea that heroes come from all walks of life, not just from certain families. Is it a better message to say only certain people matter, or anyone can matter? I know which I like more.

It’s why I especially loved the scene at the end between her and Poe on the Falcon. Kylo, the Skywalker descendant who believed he was entitled to rule the galaxy, was all about telling that she was nobody, that she wasn’t any part of this story. But when she introduced herself to Poe, he said “Yeah, I know.”

She’s someone. And every bit a part of this story.
 
The Problem is that Rey is just Anakin 2.0 at this point.
Just that Anakin was created by the Force to restore balance toward the dark sinde and she is to restore balance towards the light.

And Rey was created by a couple of deadbeat drunks. How is that like Anakin?

And what was Luke for?? Weren’t Yoda and Obi-Wan all about him being the last hope in the original trilogy?
 
Truth. In all honesty, the biggest thing Luke did was keep Vader and the Emperor occupied. If Luke was not around, maybe Vader stops Han, etc. But, I def agree, at least in regards to ROTJ. He did blow up Death Star 1 in ANH.

Since Luke escapes the Death Star even dragging Vader's body with him for a good bit it's reasonable to expect that the Emperor would have had a chance to escape before it blew up as well.

So without Luke it's likely that both the Sith would still be alive.
 
I'd say it's a certainty. For one thing, Mark hasn't shaved off the beard.
 
At this point I personally don't see on what good it would do to bring back Luke as a Force Ghost.

It would just serve as a painful reminder that Luke had to needlessly die so early in the new trilogy.

Plus, you can bet a fortune that Luke's primary role as a force ghost would mainly be about propping up Rey as character (as though she needed any more merits to add to her accomplishments).
 
Because Luke can serve the same role Obi-Won and Yoda served for him after they died.
 
Because Luke can serve the same role Obi-Won and Yoda served for him after they died.

And Force-ghost Yoda did create a lightning strike that burned down that tree, so I wouldn’t assume Luke as a ghost in IX would just be standing around reminding everyone that he died in the last movie. They seem to have skills.

It didn’t bother me at all that Luke died, because it didn’t seem to me that he was gone. He became one with the Force, he’d found peace, and his path.

When he watched that sunset in ANH, he wanted to be someplace else. When he watched the sunset in TLJ, he found where he needed to go. I’m curious as to where that path takes him.
 
Because Luke can serve the same role Obi-Won and Yoda served for him after they died.

I think the issue that I, and at least a few others, have with that aspect is that we weren't ready to see Luke enter that phase until after the events of the third film of this trilogy.

Plus, Luke being a Force Ghost also means that he can no longer have an arc of his own anymore.

It just feels like a waste to have him cameo at end of TFA and die in the next one, while having missed out on all of the action. Even Obi-Wan's final appearance in ANH was more eventful and meaningful than Luke's.
 
Before The Force Awakens was released, hell, before it was even filmed, Mark Hamill was telling people that the "classic" cast was going to be in the background in this new trilogy. "Passing the baton without really having it in Episode VII." That's exactly how Mark, of all people described it. I had trepidation about that. Yes, the original cast is older, but I felt that they still needed to be featured prominently.

It turns out that Mark Hamill undersold his involvement based on what he knew about The Force Awakens.
 
Hamill did a radio interview on BBC radio 2 here recently, I didn’t hear all of it as I was working when it was on, but I heard some interesting snippets.

He did say that he loved how the movie turned out in the end and he enjoying working with Johnson. However, he did say that often he was saying to Johnson ‘Luke wouldn’t give up like this’ and ‘Jedi never give up and abandon others’ but Johnson would reply saying ‘we can’t have too much Luke’ and after Hamill went away and thought about it he agreed with Johnson.

Now these aren’t exact quotes, but given there are many complaints about Luke leaving his friends and the galaxy to their fates to go and hide away on that planet, I thought it was interesting.

Maybe someone more technically minded than me can find a link to the interview and put it here?
 
Hamill did a radio interview on BBC radio 2 here recently, I didn’t hear all of it as I was working when it was on, but I heard some interesting snippets.

He did say that he loved how the movie turned out in the end and he enjoying working with Johnson. However, he did say that often he was saying to Johnson ‘Luke wouldn’t give up like this’ and ‘Jedi never give up and abandon others’ but Johnson would reply saying ‘we can’t have too much Luke’ and after Hamill went away and thought about it he agreed with Johnson.

Now these aren’t exact quotes, but given there are many complaints about Luke leaving his friends and the galaxy to their fates to go and hide away on that planet, I thought it was interesting.

Maybe someone more technically minded than me can find a link to the interview and put it here?

That seems logical since it explains why they justify Luke's state so very poorly if the reason they went that way was "we can't have too much Luke".
 
Mjölnir;36510919 said:
That seems logical since it explains why they justify Luke's state so very poorly if the reason they went that way was "we can't have too much Luke".

Yep, it sounds like it was pretty much Rey’s show, which I understand to a point. But they still could make different choices with Luke.
 
Yep, it sounds like it was pretty much Rey’s show, which I understand to a point. But they still could make different choices with Luke.

Honestly, if Kathleen wanted to shed away any ties to the original trilogy as much as possible then she should have started these new films with a fresh slate from the start, rather than just bringing in these beloved characters so that she could take a crap on them one at a time in order to make her original characters matter (which she has also failed at doing as well).

Re-watching the last scene of TFA with Rey finding Luke again and man, it really sucks on how Abrams really ended the film on such a powerful note only for Rian to take a huge crap on that scene as well, just for the sake of trying to subvert expectations.

[YT]aWe1FInybWI[/YT]

It's too bad that the original three (Mark, Carrie, and Harrison) couldn't have it in their contract when they first signed on board to return to have creative input in the way that their characters are portrayed in these new films.
 
Honestly, if Kathleen wanted to shed away any ties to the original trilogy as much as possible then she should have started these new films with a fresh slate from the start, rather than just bringing in these beloved characters so that she could take a crap on them one at a time in order to make her original characters matter (which she has also failed at doing as well).

Re-watching the last scene of TFA with Rey finding Luke again and man, it really sucks on how Abrams really ended the film on such a powerful note only for Rian to take a huge crap on that scene as well, just for the sake of trying to subvert expectations.

[YT]aWe1FInybWI[/YT]

It's too bad that the original three (Mark, Carrie, and Harrison) couldn't have it in their contract when they first signed on board to return to have creative input in the way that their characters are portrayed in these new films.

Yeah the ending to TFA used to get me so pumped, Johnson sucked all of that out of the scene by trying to be clever.

Yeah part of me thinks they should have started this new trilogy with all of the old heroes already dead, but that probably would have caused murder at the time they announced it.
 
It was one of the best parts of the film. He wasn't just throwing the light saber. The object represented Jay Jay's stupid mystery box machinations that always goes nowhere. Luke was Rian at that moment. It was a signal, no, a megaphone held by Rian, telling us he was gonna rise above the mystery box approach, as well as formulaic rehash plots. And he did.
 

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