Marvel’s First Family Casting Thread

[wobbly]

Respect your opinion 100% but what do you mean by “casting against type”? I presume this is just another word for race-bending but my stance on race-bending is that as long as an actor is right for the role and the role isn’t intrinsically tied to racial representation like Black Panther or Shang-Chi then I’m fine with it. A black or Asian actor can fit the intelligent and distant Reed to a T. Only minus would be they wouldn’t match the clearly white Anglo-Saxon looks of the character. And I get it, you want a fully authentic F4 film visually, but I’d argue the FF are coming to a Marvel post-Black Panther and Marvel likely is at a point in their success that they can likely getaway with changing the races with key iconic.characters.

And honestly, I just personally think it’s very very unlikely Feige is going to cast an all white team as F4, especially now in the 2020’s. That being said, if Marvel doesn’t change the team at all and keeps them white like they are in the comics good, but I just can’t shake the hunch that Watts(who race-bent the vast majority of Peter’s supporting cast, including the iconic Mary Jane) will most likely go in a diverse route. He probably won’t change everyone, but I’m sorry I don’t see modern Marvel going with pasty white people. I guess we’ll wait and see, but I’m not holding my breath on all-white FF.

'Casting against type' isn't the best term as I did indeed mean visual likeness to the comic books characters. That term is associated more to picking an actor for a role they wouldn't normally be associated with more on character traits, like Henry Fonda's evil Frank in 'Once upon a Time in the West'.

As regards the likeness thing I personally do get a kick out of seeing the characters brought to live action life and I can see the comic book art reflected in the actors chosen. It's not a deal breaker, but I feel its a nice acknowledgement of sorts to the efforts of the comic book artists who created them. That's what those guys intended, that's what the comic fans know, and I like it when the movies respect that too. I said in that earlier post, there is (imo) a value to that long running comic book iconography, and I think recognising that has served Marvel well too this last decade.

Having said that though I am by no means saying they wont change things for FF. Now that the MCU brand has been cemented so well Marvel can and will look to mix things up as the 'old guard' gradually gets phased out and new blood brought in.

But as a big fan of the Fantastic Four books since I was a kid, I would be a bit bummed that after so many good visually accurate casting choices in the MCU, and with them finally having the chance to do the FF themselves, they might indeed change the likeness approach for this one quite a bit. I will still watch the films, but that would take a little of the shine off of it for me.

 

[Detective Conan]

'Casting against type' isn't the best term as I did indeed mean visual likeness to the comic books characters. That term is associated more to picking an actor for a role they wouldn't normally be associated with more on character traits, like Henry Fonda's evil Frank in 'Once upon a Time in the West'.

As regards the likeness thing I personally do get a kick out of seeing the characters brought to live action life and I can see the comic book art reflected in the actors chosen. It's not a deal breaker, but I feel its a nice acknowledgement of sorts to the efforts of the comic book artists who created them. That's what those guys intended, that's what the comic fans know, and I like it when the movies respect that too. I said in that earlier post, there is (imo) a value to that long running comic book iconography, and I think recognising that has served Marvel well too this

But as a big fan of the Fantastic Four books since I was a kid, I would be a bit bummed that after so many good visually accurate casting choices in the MCU, and with them finally having the chance to do the FF themselves, they might indeed change the likeness approach for this one quite a bit. I will still watch the films, but that would take a little of the shine off of it for me.

I 100% respect your position. I guess for myself, I don’t overly mind the team being changed visually as I don’t think their race is as sacrosanct to them as as their personalities are. When Stan and Jack created the team over 50 years ago, it was obviously in less tolerant times where the team had to be white or they likely wouldn’t even be published. If the F4 was created today, then they wouldn’t be an all-white team. And y’know while I was typing this I just got reminded of the old Stan Lee quote where he said the Marvel universe was the world outside your window. What’s meant by that is that it’s a world that’s reflective of all people no matter what religion, race, or sexuality and to me I think Marvel would want to extend that ethos of representation to even the company’s top tier characters. That being said, you’re not wrong to feel how you do about race changes. You care about the characters and you’ve been waiting for a long time for a movie that represents the team authentically to the source material.

And as much as I could argue that diversifying the team would simply be a logical progression of “the world outside your window” ethos that Stan had for Marvel you could just as easily argue that you don’t need to “tokenize” white characters to fulfill some diversity quota when the easy (non-controversial) alternative is to simply use pre-existing non-white characters and leave the white characters alone! And you know, you might be right.

That being said, Marvel might not race-swap the team. They could go the route of just using diverse characters like Native American Wyatt Wingfoot, or simply race-swap minor characters like Willie Lumpkin and Alicia Masters(she was race-swapped in the Story movies already). That could work as well. Keep the team white but race-swap the background characters. Though I can’t shake the sneaking feeling Marvel is going to change at least two members of the team. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here’s my feeling:

“We want the best actors for the roles and we will audition actors of all races and consider all options.”

Great. I’m all for it. I would have taken Idris Elba over Miles Teller for Reed in a heartbeat.

But I’m not as comfortable with: “We’re looking for a diverse cast.”

To me, that means they might cross great white actors off the list - not because they’re not perfect for the part but because their skin isn’t dark enough.

There is plenty of diversity in Marvel comic books and the MCU.

There’s no reason to force diversity on the FF. If it happens, it happens, but demanding diversity is as bad as demanding whiteness IMO.

 

[Detective Conan]

Here’s my feeling:

“We want the best actors for the roles and we will audition actors of all races and consider all options.”

Great. I’m all for it. I would have taken Idris Elba over Miles Teller for Reed in a heartbeat.

But I’m not as comfortable with: “We’re looking for a diverse cast.”

To me, that means they might cross great white actors off the list - not because they’re not perfect for the part but because their skin isn’t dark enough.

There is plenty of diversity in Marvel comic books and the MCU.

There’s no reason to force diversity on the FF. If it happens, it happens, but demanding diversity is as bad as demanding whiteness IMO.

Fair point, and look your post is inevitably going to get a lot of likes in agreement but Marvel has already technically “forced” diversity already. Feige himself has always said Marvel always goes out of there way to diversify their cast so it doesn’t feel too white:

“For us, it’s important that we don’t feel like a completely white, European cast,” said Feige. “It’s definitely important to us, that these movies reflect the world.”

Look no further than them race-bending the vast majority of Spider-Man’s cast, including the iconic redhead Mary Jane. Look at how they’ve cast a lot of the Eternals.

Jon Watts(who will obviously be directing F4) intentionally sought out non-white actors to play Peter’s supporting cast to better “reflect” the world today. With these facts in mind, I think it’s pretty much inevitable that Watts, Feige, Sarah Finn will intentionally go for a “diverse” route (for better or worse for casting). I don’t mind, but I’m sure it’ll ruffle a lot of feathers within the fandom(and understandably so). The day that casting is announced…it won’t be pretty, that’s for sure. I’m already dreading the inevitable online backlash.

 

[Stark Bauer]

I suppose I am feeling impatient regarding the lack of news surrounding this film.

All I hope in regards to this movie is that Feige remain in complete creative control.

That Feige remains true to his vision for this franchise.

That what made them special, being the only super-hero team that was a family first, is emphasized and showcased.

 

[Stark Bauer]

I would love to do it. I think to be a part of the Marvel world would be amazing anyway and the fact that people would even consider me for that level of a part would be amazing. I genuinely have had no conversations or don’t know anything that’s happening with that. I’m waiting on Kevin’s announcement of what the hell’s happening with that as much as you are. … It’s so interesting because I’m such a huge fan of Marvel. I think they do their own--I think they have such a great formula. I mean, yeah I’d jump in there. In Kevin I trust. That dude is not only the most talented guy, but the nicest guy. Whatever he wants, we’d discuss it. - John Krasinski

“In Kevin I Trust”: John Krasinski Touches On Fantastic Four Fan Love, MCU Possibilities After Director Is Signed

Follow Up comments to this:

“I actually felt stupid. I wanted to email Kevin Feige and say: Sorry, man. I didn’t mean to put pressure on you. You are the boss.”..“I think I felt like I was over-calculating how much I have to talk about certain things on many occasions. And then you get older, and you just say: I don’t know, I’ll be honest. And my honest answer was like: Hell yeah. I would play Mr. Fantastic. And then people said: Oh my God! And don’t imagine that would be the headline. I thought it would be the eighth question of that interview. But it’s true” - John Krasinski

 

[Detective Conan]

I suppose I am feeling impatient regarding the lack of news surrounding this film.

All I hope in regards to this movie is that Feige remain in complete creative control.

That Feige remains true to his vision for this franchise.

That what made them special, being the only super-hero team that was a family first, is emphasized and showcased.

It’s been a while since we got any real news. Marvel does have so much on their plate with not just movies, but shows too. Watts is hard at work in post-production on NWH. Watts will inevitably get asked about the film in an interview, and I don’t think he’ll be quite as mum as Feige so I think he’ll be willing to spill some beans about his take. Though obviously he won’t be too specific.

And I expect writers to be announced at some point, and we might get a subtitle as I don’t think Marvel will ultimately call it just “Fantastic Four” again as they would want a line of differentiation from the previous movies. Unless, they just call it ‘The Fantastic Four’ akin to how the new Suicide Squad movie is being called ‘The Suicide Squad’ but I don’t think they’ll go that way. Either way, you know what they say patience is a virtue. We waited a long time for the rights to revert to Marvel, and now we’re waiting for news on the movie that we know for sure will be done by Marvel. The wait for news can be frustrating but compared to the wait for the rights to revert when we didn’t know for sure it would, this wait is a walk in a park compared to back then. Even I can grow frustrated with a lack of news but then I always remember that it’s coming - Marvel’s first family is back where they belong and the MCU FF is no longer a far fetched pipe dream - but now an inevitable reality. Just remember we’re closer than we ever were to getting a good F4 film…and maybe watch some F4 cartoons to scratch that itch for FF content just to make the wait just a little more bearable.

 

[Stark Bauer]

It’s been a while since we got any real news. Marvel does have so much on their plate with not just movies, but shows too. Watts is hard at work in post-production on NWH. Watts will inevitably get asked about the film in an interview, and I don’t think he’ll be quite as mum as Feige so I think he’ll be willing to spill some beans about his take. Though obviously he won’t be too specific.

And I expect writers to be announced at some point, and we might get a subtitle as I don’t think Marvel will ultimately call it just “Fantastic Four” again as they would want a line of differentiation from the previous movies. Unless, they just call it ‘The Fantastic Four’ akin to how the new Suicide Squad movie is being called ‘The Suicide Squad’ but I don’t think they’ll go that way. Either way, you know what they say patience is a virtue. We waited a long time for the rights to revert to Marvel, and now we’re waiting for news on the movie that we know for sure will be done by Marvel. The wait for news can be frustrating but compared to the wait for rights to revert when we didn’t know for sure it would revert or not, this wait is walk in a park compared to back then. Even I can grow frustrated with a lack of news but then I always remember that it’s coming - Marvel’s first family is back where the belong and the MCU FF is no longer a far fetched pipe dream - but now an inevitable reality. Just remember we’re closer than we ever were to getting a good F4 film…and maybe watch some F4 cartoons to fill that itch for FF content, and make the wait just a little more bearable.

well said. i remember the days i used to read and reply to Willie Lumpkin's posts about why I think the deal will be done and Fox will give the rights back to Marvel...the day is finally here! The Fantastic Four AND their Villains are all back home. The X-MEN too! They are the most famous Marvel characters besides Spider-Man. I might be more excited for the FF and X-Men than I was for The Avengers if that makes any sense. I was always an X-Men fanboy growing up. Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Magneto > Iron Man, Kang, Captain America. X-Men have a better roster and better villains than Avengers. F4 was second to X-Men in my mind and The Avengers were the 3rd most interesting group. Spidey is always my #1 though.

Hopefully they can combine them all into one movie, F4, X-Men, and Avengers. I think my mind might explode to see them all on screen (except for Tony and Steve. sadly..RIP). Would have LOVED to see Tony getting into an exchange with Reed only to be put in his place by the superior mind of Richards.

 

[batdude]

Fair point, and look your post is inevitably going to get a lot of likes in agreement but Marvel has already technically “forced” diversity already. Feige himself has always said Marvel always goes out of there way to diversify their cast so it doesn’t feel too white:
Look no further than them race-bending the vast majority of Spider-Man’s cast, including the iconic redhead Mary Jane. Look at how they’ve cast a lot the Eternals.

Jon Watts(who will obviously be directing F4) intentionally sought out non-white actors to play Peter’s supporting cast to better “reflect” the world today. With these facts in mind, I think it’s pretty much inevitable that Watts, Feige, Sarah Finn will intentionally go for a “diverse” route (for better or worse for casting). I don’t mind, but I’m sure it’ll ruffle a lot of feathers within the fandom(and understandably so). The day that casting is announced…it won’t be pretty, that’s for sure. I’m already dreading the inevitable online backlash.

Well, I think common sense should be used. MJ really should have been a redhead. Sue and Johnny should be the same race to make them believable as brother and sister. Yeah, of course I would take Will Smith over Miles Teller, but I'm tired of fans being called racist for wanting these characters to look they do in the comic book.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Well, I think common sense should be used. MJ really should have been a redhead. Sue and Johnny should be the same race to make them believable as brother and sister. Yeah, of course I would take Will Smith over Miles Teller, but I'm tired of fans being called racist for wanting these characters to look they do in the comic book.

i am all for diversity. but do it in the right order. you dont start with Iron Heart you start with a comic book accurate Iron Man. You dont open with a female Thor, you start with comic book accurate Donald Thor. You dont open with the Sam Wilson Cap, you open with the Steve Rogers Cap. Do the main character first, then do the alternate versions after. I for one cant wait for an MCU adaptation of Miles Morales. that is going to set records at the box office. Into the spiderverse was a near perfect movie.

 

[Frodo]

Since the news has been slow on F4, here's a retro , early ,1960s casting of the first family

Reed: Russell Johnson

Sue : Elizabeth Montgomery

Ben and voice after accident , Pre Accident : Ernest Borgnine

Johnny : Tab Hunter

 

[Dark Raven]

Tab Hunter is who we all become when we have too many windows open in our browser.

 

[Silvermoth]

Aw, tab hunter. Wish he had had a fairer go of it in life

 

[Frodo]

Since the news has been slow on F4, here's a retro , early ,1960s casting of the first family

Reed: Russell Johnson

Sue : Elizabeth Montgomery

Ben and voice after accident , Pre Accident : Ernest Borgnine

Johnny : Tab Hunter

The 1950s first family, 1954

Reed : Robert Stack

Sue : Grace Kelly

Johnny : James Dean

Ben and voice after accident , Pre Accident : Ernest Borgnine

 

[Drizzle]

Somebody who I think might make for a pretty good Ben Grimm is Brett Goldstein from Ted Lasso, based purely on mannerisms. He's Jewish, and his voice in the show is the right tone for Thing, but the only thing is he's British (though so was Jamie Bell) so I have no idea if he could pull off a Brooklyn accent.

 

[wobbly]

Robert Kazinsky is another Brit who could do a good Ben I think. He has done American accents before and has even worked for Marvel before in a very brief role (he was the obnoxious biker in Captain Marvel).

 

[Frodo]

Another day without casting.
Instead, The swinging 60s, U.K. ,First Family cast

Reed : Peter O'Toole

Sue : Julie Christie

Johnny : Michael York

Ben : Albert Finney

 

[BobJM]

How about Fred Hechinger, 21 as Johnny Storm / Human Torch?

I’ve only seen him in The Woman in the Window; and he was also in News of the World, Netflix’s Fear Street, and HBO’s The White Lotus most notably. A bunch of other stuff too.

Talented actor at the right age.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Another day without casting.
Instead, The swinging 60s, U.K. ,First Family cast

Reed : Peter O'Toole

Sue : Julie Christie

Johnny : Michael York

Ben : Albert Finney

Richard Burton - DOOM

(Finney is good, but I'd go Oliver Reed as Ben)

 

[BobJM]

Reed Richards: John David Washington, 37

Sue Storm: Jodie Comer, 28

Johnny Storm: Fred Hechinger, 21

Benjamin Grimm: Seth Rogen, 39

 

[Dr. Evil]

I am all on board the "Seth Rogen as Ben Grimm" bandwagon for the possibility of redoing the dinner scene from Knocked Up, except with Evangeline Lilly and whoever they cast as Alicia Masters and they talk superhero stuff.

 

[Frodo]

 

[ileg01]

Jodie Comer as Sue Storm would be amazing. She is a great actress and perfectly fits Disneys actors target. Jodie Comer will get a lot of Oscar buzz for her upcoming movies the Last Duell and Help. It is the same situation back in time like Brie Larson. After Brie got a lot of attention for the movie Room Disney casted her.

 

[Fluedd]

Sue and Johnny should be the same race to make them believable as brother and sister. Yeah, of course I would take Will Smith over Miles Teller, but I'm tired of fans being called racist for wanting these characters to look they do in the comic book.

The thing is, the Fantastic Four is extremely special to me. They've always been my favorite comic book heroes, I've read every issue, and I still keep up with the comic today. I'm not against diversity casting, or changing the race of certain characters. It's just that the FF are far and away my favorite heroes, and I would like to see them onscreen the way I grew up with them. I want to see the characters that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created, and if you start race swapping them they're not going to be the same.

I've waited so long to see a decent FF movie, and I'm tentatively optimistic with Marvel Studios doing it. But I know there's going to be a big temptation, pressure even, to make them diverse. It's not a deal breaker, but I really just want to see the characters as they are, because they're my favorites, just the way they are. If they want to race swap, do it with somebody else's heroes.

I 100% respect your position. I guess for myself, I don’t overly mind the team being changed visually as I don’t think their race is as sacrosanct to them as as their personalities are.

When I grew up, civil rights leaders told us to be color blind. But that view isn't in vogue anymore. Now we're told that minorities especially define themselves by race. And that "if you don't see race, then you don't see me". I prefer the color blind approach myself, it brings people together instead of dividing them. But if you go by the new narrative, then race is integral to the identity of the character. And if that is true, a race change is a huge change of the character.

But as I said before, I wouldn't mind at all if it weren't my favorite team. It holds a sacred place in my heart, and in Marvel history IMO.

 

[Stark Bauer]

The thing is, the Fantastic Four is extremely special to me. They've always been my favorite comic book heroes, I've read every issue, and I still keep up with the comic today. I'm not against diversity casting, or changing the race of certain characters. It's just that the FF are far and away my favorite heroes, and I would like to see them onscreen the way I grew up with them. I want to see the characters that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created, and if you start race swapping them they're not going to be the same.

I've waited so long to see a decent FF movie, and I'm tentatively optimistic with Marvel Studios doing it. But I know there's going to be a big temptation, pressure even, to make them diverse. It's not a deal breaker, but I really just want to see the characters as they are, because they're my favorites, just the way they are. If they want to race swap, do it with somebody else's heroes.


When I grew up, civil rights leaders told us to be color blind. But that view isn't in vogue anymore. Now we're told that minorities especially define themselves by race. And that "if you don't see race, then you don't see me". I prefer the color blind approach myself, it brings people together instead of dividing them. But if you go by the new narrative, then race is integral to the identity of the character. And if that is true, a race change is a huge change of the character.

But as I said before, I wouldn't mind at all if it weren't my favorite team. It holds a sacred place in my heart, and in Marvel history IMO.

this is a great post. I dont know how you managed to read every single issue (including the Jim Lee heroes reborn series?) but kudos to you.

You could literally insert any Marvel franchise be it the F4 or Moon Knight and your opinion in regards to race swapping would be valid. No there is nothing wrong with depicting Sherlock Holmes as a white Anglo-Saxon (English) male, that is how he has been historically portrayed. There is nothing wrong depicting Luke Cage or Spawn as African-American, that is how they were originally portrayed.

Their ethnicity is simply the palette to their identity - it is not their essence, it is superficial, but it is essential in order to be honest, accurate, and factual. Race swapping any of these characters be it Sherlock Holmes or Spawn is to portray these fictional and sometimes even non-fictional characters non-accurately.

Your post reminded me of what MLK said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

This is true we should not judge people by external standards but by what is internal. Race swapping is not judging by external standards. We are simply holding creative people accountable for portraying characters more accurately according to their source material, be it historic or based on fantasy. I think race swapping presents many questions of what the intentions are of replacing one ethnicity with another, are social injustices trying to be corrected or amended for? Are there other, better ways to address this?