Mass Effect 3

[El Bastardo]

I enjoyed mine as well.. More so since I figured it wasn't "and this is all you get" ending and more of a to be continued.

DA II is good. To heck with da haters.

Preach it.

 

[eternalinferno]

If you went with morinth instead of Samara in me2, do you encounter her in Samaras place in 3?

 

[smashmode]

More possible clues to the [BLACKOUT]Indoctrination[/BLACKOUT] Theory.??

Spoiler

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

Shepard is partly cybernetic, we know this already.

I have a question about the indoctrination theory.

Why doesn't the Prothean VI identify you as indoctrinated or undergoing indoctrination when it does for Cerberus/Kai Leng?

Why do all endings see the Stargazer and kid at the end when the biggest piece of evidence that Indoctrination theory people point to - Shepard waking up - happens before this scene?

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

The whole point of the indoctrination theory is that you're not actually being indoctrinated until the final 5 mins of the game...where Shep is running to the beam. THAT is where indoctrination would start, and the ensuing scenes are all Shep either fighting or becoming indoctrinated.

So, what does the Prothean VI have to do with anything whastoever?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

Except almost all Indoctrination theorists point to Shepard's dreams and Vega's reference to hearing a buzzing as further evidence and these things occur prior to the meeting with the Prothean VI.

Also in your scenario - the problem is indoctrination does not work that fast. It takes about several days to a week for a fast indoctrination to occur, more if you want the subject to retain some semblance of normality - this was established in ME1.

 

[El Bastardo]

Spoiler

Shepard is partly cybernetic, we know this already.

I have a question about the indoctrination theory.

Why doesn't the Prothean VI identify you as indoctrinated or undergoing indoctrination when it does for Cerberus/Kai Leng?

Why do all endings see the Stargazer and kid at the end when the biggest piece of evidence that Indoctrination theory people point to - Shepard waking up - happens before this scene?

Spoiler

As far as I can tell, if I try to make sense of this "theory" - and it's more an hypothesis, than anything...

But at the time of dealing with the Prothean VI, Shepard would not have been indoctrinated. This idea supposes that the attack by Harbinger, where the screen goes white-light at the attack on the Conduit, is where Shepard is attacked by indoctrination, while he/she is unconscious. But in the best Destroy ending, it also supposes he/she wakes up in London rubble - so what was the point of the dream sequence? This is pretty much where the hypothesis falls apart, because there's no narrative point to it. Structurally, it does not work.

And as you pointed out with the Stargazer scene - why is it present for all endings? Obviously, if this were a false ending and an "ending DLC" were to come, all choices would have to be accounted for, but again, what's th point if it's just a dream sequence? If post-whitelight doesn't actually happen, and something does in fact come after as the Stargazer scene seems to imply, and it's Shepard-centric, then nothing but the good Destroy ending can occur, barring some type of explanation - other choices result in some type of boost to the Reapers, via Shepard's subconscious failure.

It's all just speculation, though. The ending as is works on its own, and I'm not sold the destruction in that scene is actually anything in London, but I suppose it could be. I can see some of the reasoning behind the indoctrination ideas, but as they are I think they're pretty weak. But it's the internet, so it's touted as genius.

 

[El Bastardo]

Spoiler

Except almost all Indoctrination theorists point to Shepard's dreams and Vega's reference to hearing a buzzing as further evidence and these things occur prior to the meeting with the Prothean VI.

Also in your scenario - the problem is indoctrination does not work that fast. It takes about several days to a week for a fast indoctrination to occur, more if you want the subject to retain some semblance of normality - this was established in ME1.

Spoiler

And this is a very good point, and why a lot of the "genius" doesn't really work. It might work better if we assume that it's not indoctrination, and that if we assume it's Harbinger there at the final push. Because then Harbinger could have been trying to take control of Shepard.

Then people can disagree over whether Shepard would be able to fight it off or not. At least it'd be a new argument.

 

[smashmode]

From the Jeremy Jahn's suggestion, can ME3 ending be modded to add a [BLACKOUT]epilogue[/BLACKOUT]?

 

[jacobed]

I liked my ending

Spoiler

I made the choice for Shepard to sacrifice himself and kill all the Reapers, thus the war is over and Shepard is a legend. I don't know what more they could have done. Seemed like a great ending to me. The only thing I didn't like was everything with the Normandy, that just seemed incredibly out of place and wierd. First off why was the Normandy flying away from the battle. Secondly, why would you end the game with that. If you're going to do that scene put it in after the credits and put Buzz Aldrin(who is really ****ing himself out to everyone now a days) and the little girl to end the game. Man that would have been perfect.

 

[El Bastardo]

I liked my ending

Spoiler

I made the choice for Shepard to sacrifice himself and kill all the Reapers, thus the war is over and Shepard is a legend. I don't know what more they could have done. Seemed like a great ending to me. The only thing I didn't like was everything with the Normandy, that just seemed incredibly out of place and wierd. First off why was the Normandy flying away from the battle. Secondly, why would you end the game with that. If you're going to do that scene put it in after the credits and put Buzz Aldrin(who is really ****ing himself out to everyone now a days) and the little girl to end the game. Man that would have been perfect.

Spoiler

I don't see what's so "wrong" about the Normandy. We have no context of time in the ending. Shepard has clearly blacked out up there, which means any amount of time could have gone by. Enough time for Joker to pick the remaining crew up off of Earth? Enough time to try and get the hell out of Dodge if it looks like the battle's gone poorly? We know the Prothean Empire fought for a huge amount of time in various theatres. We don't know whether the Normandy is the only ship to have attempted to get away.

Just because you don't see something happen, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. So many people *****ing about the endings seem to not realize that. (Not saying you are. Just saying.)

 

[jacobed]

Spoiler

I don't see what's so "wrong" about the Normandy. We have no context of time in the ending. Shepard has clearly blacked out up there, which means any amount of time could have gone by. Enough time for Joker to pick the remaining crew up off of Earth? Enough time to try and get the hell out of Dodge if it looks like the battle's gone poorly? We know the Prothean Empire fought for a huge amount of time in various theatres. We don't know whether the Normandy is the only ship to have attempted to get away.

Just because you don't see something happen, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. So many people *****ing about the endings seem to not realize that. (Not saying you are. Just saying.)

Spoiler

Oh I agree, it could have taken place a bit later and thats what I figured was happening those beams going to all galaxies I'm sure were taking a while to travel and the Normandy just happened to get caught in one which I'm definitely fine with but I don't know it just seemed out of place at the end like that.

I would have loved it if they had switched it with Buzz's little scene because that gives a better idea of what Shepard's sacrifice meant to the galaxy which is what I wanted to know.

 

[Harriet Tubman]

Spoiler

Shepard is partly cybernetic, we know this already.

I have a question about the indoctrination theory.

Why doesn't the Prothean VI identify you as indoctrinated or undergoing indoctrination when it does for Cerberus/Kai Leng?

Why do all endings see the Stargazer and kid at the end when the biggest piece of evidence that Indoctrination theory people point to - Shepard waking up - happens before this scene?

The thought is that

Spoiler

Early in the game, when he first sees the kid in the vent, Anderson calls out to Shepard, and right at that moment, you hear a very distinct growl. In the EU (and I thiiiiink the journal entry), you find out that people resisting indoctrination hear growling noises from the Reapers.

As far as the part on Thessia, the only thing I can think of is that Kai Leng is fully, 100% indoctrinated, whereas Shepard is still, in his subconscious, rejecting the indoctrination.

 

[El Bastardo]

It's pretty weak.

 

[DeGenerate10]

Over 30,000 members http://www.facebook.com/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3#!/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

It's pretty weak.

Agreed, its where the indoctrination theory really starts to falls apart and it shows.

Spoiler

I agree with Jacobed that once all the Normandy stuff at the end happens is where it really starts to go south for me, though Shepard arguing with the Catalyst more would have greatly been appreciated.

El Bastardo's right in that we don't have context but I think that's a lot of the problem some people are having at the end is that its so lacking in supplying us with the necessary context of anything that is happening that for a lot of people its just frustrating.

When half the people think that the ending didn't even actually happen and the other half thinks the galaxy underwent some kind of a galaxy wide apocalypse I think that its a sign that the endings were too ambigious for its own good.

 

[Master Chief]

ok guys, Jack or Liara?

Jack.

Spoiler

Shepard is partly cybernetic, we know this already.

I have a question about the indoctrination theory.

Why doesn't the Prothean VI identify you as indoctrinated or undergoing indoctrination when it does for Cerberus/Kai Leng?

Why do all endings see the Stargazer and kid at the end when the biggest piece of evidence that Indoctrination theory people point to - Shepard waking up - happens before this scene?

Did you miss my post answering this very question earlier or did you ignore it? Here's a copy pasta, I cooked it up with much love.

Spoiler

Dude, you are not grasping the premise of the theory.

The theory is saying Harbinger is TRYING to indoctrinate him.

Kai Leng and The Illusive Man ARE indoctrinated.
Shepard is NOT indoctrinated because the reapers haven't penetrated his mind, which is what the Catalyst is TRYING to do.

Everything after Shepard gets wrecked is an INDOCTRINATION ATTEMPT, a final push after his defences have been worn down throughout the game.

Read up on indoctrination because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be elitist but if you're really criticizing something without understanding it you shouldn't bother. Get to know the process, the symptoms of indoctrination and you will see how this speculation fits into place so snugly. It makes a lot more sense than, "Bioware was lazy lol u mad?"

The stargazer scene is to show that he's retelling the classic story of how the legendary Commander Shepard defeated the reapers once upon a time. As far as I'm concerned, we haven't seen the real ending yet, evidenced by Shepard waking up in rubble.

Spoiler

I don't see what's so "wrong" about the Normandy. We have no context of time in the ending. Shepard has clearly blacked out up there, which means any amount of time could have gone by. Enough time for Joker to pick the remaining crew up off of Earth? Enough time to try and get the hell out of Dodge if it looks like the battle's gone poorly? We know the Prothean Empire fought for a huge amount of time in various theatres. We don't know whether the Normandy is the only ship to have attempted to get away.

Just because you don't see something happen, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. So many people *****ing about the endings seem to not realize that. (Not saying you are. Just saying.)

Spoiler

Anderson says there will be no air support, AND the Normandy's shuttle has been wrecked. There is NO WAY the Normandy would be able to pick up anybody.

Yet for EVERYBODY who has played through the game one or both of the people exiting the Normandy at the end are the last people you picked to be in your squad.

Which means it's deliberate since whoever exits isn't randomized.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Jack.

Spoiler

Dude, you are not grasping the premise of the theory.

The theory is saying Harbinger is TRYING to indoctrinate him.

Kai Leng and The Illusive Man ARE indoctrinated.
Shepard is NOT indoctrinated because the reapers haven't penetrated his mind, which is what the Catalyst is TRYING to do.

Everything after Shepard gets wrecked is an INDOCTRINATION ATTEMPT, a final push after his defences have been worn down throughout the game.

Spoiler

Indoctrination does not work that way. You cannot be indoctrinated on the spot. It takes several days at the least.

 

[Matt]

Jack.




Did you miss my post answering this very question earlier or did you ignore it? Here's a copy pasta, I cooked it up with much love.

Spoiler

Dude, you are not grasping the premise of the theory.

The theory is saying Harbinger is TRYING to indoctrinate him.

Kai Leng and The Illusive Man ARE indoctrinated.
Shepard is NOT indoctrinated because the reapers haven't penetrated his mind, which is what the Catalyst is TRYING to do.

Everything after Shepard gets wrecked is an INDOCTRINATION ATTEMPT, a final push after his defences have been worn down throughout the game.

Read up on indoctrination because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be elitist but if you're really criticizing something without understanding it you shouldn't bother. Get to know the process, the symptoms of indoctrination and you will see how this speculation fits into place so snugly. It makes a lot more sense than, "Bioware was lazy lol u mad?"

The stargazer scene is to show that he's retelling the classic story of how the legendary Commander Shepard defeated the reapers once upon a time. As far as I'm concerned, we haven't seen the real ending yet, evidenced by Shepard waking up in rubble.

Spoiler

Anderson says there will be no air support, AND the Normandy's shuttle has been wrecked. There is NO WAY the Normandy would be able to pick up anybody.

Yet for EVERYBODY who has played through the game one or both of the people exiting the Normandy at the end are the last people you picked to be in your squad.

Which means it's deliberate since whoever exits isn't randomized.

Spoiler

The Normandy doesn't need it's shuttle to pick people up. At the very beginning of the game it picks Shepard up right out of Vancouver without a shuttle. They just open the cargo bay door and he jumps in.

As for the other point about it not having air support, it doesn't need that either. There is a conversation with Admiral Hackett about the plans to use the Normandy for quick strikes on the Reapers because it can fly among the Reapers so quickly and it's stealth drive makes it virtually undetectable to them. This conversation is never mentioned again.

 

[Master Chief]

The thought is that

Spoiler

Early in the game, when he first sees the kid in the vent, Anderson calls out to Shepard, and right at that moment, you hear a very distinct growl. In the EU (and I thiiiiink the journal entry), you find out that people resisting indoctrination hear growling noises from the Reapers.

As far as the part on Thessia, the only thing I can think of is that Kai Leng is fully, 100% indoctrinated, whereas Shepard is still, in his subconscious, rejecting the indoctrination.

Spoiler

In Retribution, the reapers growled everytime Grayson fought them. The Illusive Man started to dose him with red sand to weaken his resolve. Later on in Sanctuary we find out Miranda's father agreed with the red sand treatment, but discovered adrenaline is much more effective.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

@JessicaMerizan Will there be any sort of explanation from the devs regarding the ending? Or are you not allowed to say yet :/
Jessica Merizan ‏ @JessicaMerizan Close
@mattdunmore we're waiting for more people to finish the game so no one misses out on the conversation

 

[Matt]

Spoiler

Indoctrination does not work that way. You cannot be indoctrinated on the spot. It takes several days at the least.

The codex does say that [blackout]rapid indoctrination is possible, but it also results in death within a matter of days or weeks. So while it could happen, why not just kill Shepard on the spot? Why bother indoctrinating him if he is only going to last a couple of days?[/blackout]

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Spoiler

That's what I mean by several days, that's rapid indoctrination like the Salarians on Virmire. Saren and Illusive Man would likely have been over a period of weeks in order to leave their faculties intact. This is said in ME1 just for anyone that's curious.

 

[Master Chief]

Spoiler

Indoctrination does not work that way. You cannot be indoctrinated on the spot. It takes several days at the least.

Spoiler

Shepard's dreams get worse and worse as time goes on. Approach the shadows that start showing up in his dreams after Tuchunka and the whispers get louder. Again, they're not indoctrinating him simply at the very moment, they've finally broken him down to the point where they can try forcefully entering his mind.

Spoiler

The Normandy doesn't need it's shuttle to pick people up. At the very beginning of the game it picks Shepard up right out of Vancouver without a shuttle. They just open the cargo bay door and he jumps in.

As for the other point about it not having air support, it doesn't need that either. There is a conversation with Admiral Hackett about the plans to use the Normandy for quick strikes on the Reapers because it can fly among the Reapers so quickly and it's stealth drive makes it virtually undetectable to them. This conversation is never mentioned again.

Spoiler

So you're telling me the Normandy picked up Javik and Garrus, on the ground, amidst the rubble and threat of Harbinger AFTER they saw Shepard get wrecked. Then they flew off to jump through a relay? LOL!

 

[X Knight]

@JessicaMerizan Will there be any sort of explanation from the devs regarding the ending? Or are you not allowed to say yet :/
Jessica Merizan ‏ @JessicaMerizan Close
@mattdunmore we're waiting for more people to finish the game so no one misses out on the conversation

hmmmmm...............