Hey Spidey!
I think it could work, just not in the way you suggest. But each movie still needs to be self contained, as does each franchise. That doesn't mean you can't take characters from one franchise and put them in another, as long as you finish their current stories first it should be okay.
Your idea was to have the Thor movie directly lead into the Avengers movie as if one story split in twain.
You still haven't explained WHY each story MUST BE self contained. Ok, if this makes it easier for you, how about the Avengers film is essentially the sequel to each of the first solo movies? That's more or less what I've been saying anyway.
Magneto was not the ultimate villain in X2, Stryker was, Magneto was not the ultimate villain in X3, Phoenix was.
Therefore Magneto was effectively the supporting villain in those movies.
In SW 4-6 the heroes don't technically face Vader until the end of Empire, by which time Lucas has already introduced Boba Fett. We also know mid-way through Empire that Vader is not the top dog. The Emperor is. Jedi also introduced Jabba the Hutt among others. So it was certainly not like Vader was carrying the movie. Just like Magneto wasn't carrying the second or third X-men movies.
Each of those movies added something at each new turn. Another example would be the Mummy Returns (which added the Scorpion King as the ultimate villain).
And to make my idea fit more into your mold, any of the devices you've mentioned could be employed with respect to Loki.
Hulk isn't a villain. You know it, I know it, even the general audience know it.
Ok, how do you view a 9' tall monster who destroys NY city while on a rage-fueled rampage? If he was destroying your home, I hardly think you'd call him a hero. Yes, Hulk is a hero when fighting a villain, but he is unique in that he is seen nearly as often raging against 'puny humans' and destroying their property just because in his infantile mindset, humanity is the enemy.
I also don't see how Hulk can be fought more than once as a villain before it becomes stale and contrived.
When did I say he should be the villain other than in the first Avengers movie? He will be a hero in TIH against A-bomb.
Well if you love the characters you should care whats best for them.
No, it should be what is best for the fans! The characters aren't really real! What's best for 'them' isn't an issue! And I've already addressed the term 'best'. If you look at all of these movies as one big story, then tying them all together IS what is 'best' (your definition). I could use your argument against you and what you would like to see by saying "Well, your idea is underwhelming compared to throwing in (fill in blank with super-powerful villain) to boot!"
I already explained how it might work using my Thor movie idea and the basics of your Avengers movie idea.
But that still leaves us with some unsolved problems.
And that's fine. I never said your ideas wouldn't work. YOU are the only one who has been trying to pigeonhole everything and saying nothing but YOUR ideas would work. Do you think Raimi's Spider-man was the only way Spidey could've been presented? Do you think his way was the 'best' that could've been? No and no. Something doesn't have to be 'the best' to still be awesome!
Not at all I am simply being realistic. You cannot credit non-comic fans with anything more than a basic knowledge of superheroes.
No, you are condescending by inferring that the majority of the public don't have sense enough to watch a Thor movie and then figure out that the Avengers movie is the next chapter in that story. By saying it would confuse them, you're essentially calling them stupid! It has nothing to do with their knowledge of superheroes! With media, the internet, up to the second entertainment news, they would EASILY know what was going on, especially if the solo movies blow up!
Then you must be a Hulk fan(boy?), because thats the only way you could arrive at such a decision.
Not a Hulk 'fanboy'. The way I arrive at my view is backed by dozens of years of stories that support my view. FF# 25 and #26 for starters. If you have any proof that The Hulk IS NOT (or at least doesn't APPEAR to be thru a drawn out battle) a match for the Avengers please show it. If you have an example of Thor easily beating the Hulk, please show it. I mean, taking each other at our word notwithstanding, let's be reasonable: you can't just say 'Thor can destroy the Hulk with ease' without actually pointing to some example and expect anyone to take you seriously. Your view is backed by your preference for thor. Mine is backed by recorded recognized canon.
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A spectacular anti-climax more like.
Again, this is just your opinion and you're entitled to it. I won't argue on points of opinion.
My point was you shouldn't ask a question to which you already have the answer. If you already know an answer, just give it!
Sounds like a homage to Superman Returns...and thats not a good thing.
Quiet moments of characterisation are why we have the solo movies. I don't want to see Avengers the Snoozical.
Again, I just see this remark as silly and in complete contradiction with your claim to know what constitutes a good story. Did you see Die Hard, arguably the mother of action films? Did it have moments of quiet introspection? Of course! Al telling John about how he accidentally shot the kid! John telling Al about how he'd never told his wife he was sorry! This ENHANCES the scenes with the action! Sounds to me like you just want a 2 hours battle royale! There's good story telling for yuh!
I never said I wanted long, drawn-out scenes like that! You asked what else could fill up 110 minutes and it seemed you really had no clue!
It'll need to be - you have virtually no action in the first 110 minutes barring a few Hulk tantrums.
Ok, let me see if I can think of some possible action scenes:
Cap training
Thor maybe having a run-in with the law in his first experience with modern civilization
IM in the middle of some high-tech criminal take-down when he gets the call from Fury about putting together the team
Thor's initial run-in with the others and a short skirmish
the Hulk rampaging thru a city being hounded by the army
Those are just off the top of my head but again I would think as a writer, you would know that action is the easiest thing to add more of. It's characterization that takes skill and surprisingly seems the least important to you.
How do you work that out, given, as a spectacle it paled by comparison to your Thor movie ending.
That would be about like saying that it would pale in comparison to the end of ROTK which IMO it wouldn't. Look, I'll just be blunt, I read Avengers #1 when I was a kid and always wanted to see it brought to life. To me, there are few things it would pale in comparison to and I can't really think of one of those at the moment. So again, it's down to opinion.
You could do Operation Galactic Storm, like I said my familiarity with Avengers is limited, but I suspect they must have at least three worthwhile villains who can create an epic tableau each building on the previous.
Don't know the story. Like I said, have Loki/Hulk in #1, Ultron in #2, and Kang and his army in #3 and it meets both our criteria for a good trilogy!
That does make more sense. However I still think your initial movie idea is far too weak with Hulk as the climax.
Again I won't argue opinion. I think that it could be done dynamically enough that it would be anything but weak!
So the only one who can actually stand against the Hulk toe to toe flees the scene. Which means you basically have the other characters bouncing off the Hulk for 10 minutes.
Well, i'd think this would make it perfect for you as then, the remaining team would 'seemingly be unable to stop' the Hulk! Isn't that what you said was most important a few posts back? This would take Thor out of the equation thus making it easier for you to accept!
If hes that innocent he could always just jump away.
Well, the Hulk isn't going to keep running when super powered beings are attacking him. His rage will grow and so will his desire to smash! He's not going to be rationally trying to figure out why they're attacking him. He is pretty much a reactionary character!
In closing, we're not really getting anywhere except making more than clear each of our personal preferences. Any further discussion will just be circular. As I said, what either of us wants won't have any effect on what we'll get in the end. So I'm moving on. I'll reply when I've had a chance to look at your Thor synopses.
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