MCU: Phase II - Part 1

[KangConquers]

What if viggo mortensons cameo wasn't doctor strange, but as starlord in some capacity.

He's a little longer in the tooth than I imagine they'd go for Star-Lord.

Another possibility is Surtur.

 

[jaykayem]

It's my wish that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch show up somewhere in Phase II, maybe as members of a SHIELD black ops team, and then participate in "Avengers 2". Actors like Guy Pearce for Pietro and Rachel Weisz for Wanda - or their younger equilvalents. Supposedly both the MCU and T-Fox's X-Men can use them, but I've always felt their best place was in the Avengers.

 

[bubbadoom]

no he didn't do abe's voice, at least not in 1 (that was "niles" from Fraiser) he did however do the surfers voice.

I know Doug did not voice Abe in the first movie - I was speaking of the cartoons...

I see you have already been corrected about the Surfer's voice. He should have done it, it was every bit as good as what Larry Fishburn did...

 

[bubbadoom]

Doug did the Surfers motion capture and lines, which were then dubbed by Fishburne. Doug also played Abe Sapiens and was dubbed by David Hyde Pierce but in the 2nd movie [and the cartoons] did the voice himself and it wasnt too far from Pierce's. Jones is great at physical performance and [it seems] aint too shabby with his voice either.

Not to split hairs, but what Doug did for the Surfer was not motion capture.

He performed the entire role in full body prosthetics, the "tarnished" version is 99% what was shot on set, and the "silver" version used the same style suit.

It was only after WETA realized that they could could not deliver their effects as planned that it was decided to make a completely animated version of the Silver Surfer to be placed over the live action version. Naturally this version had to match Doug's performance, in order to obscure it on the film.

 

[Radioactive1980]

I wish to express a concern about phase II, here it is-

My concern is that the phase II films will all/most of em, be a formulaic blend of action and comedic relief based on the success of The Avengers. In Avengers it worked great, but that does not mean I want every phase II film to have the exact same tone as Avengers. Although it was one of the least successful MS films, I loved that TIH had a much darker tone than any of the other films and was absent of any comedy, but I worry MS will never make a film like that again. BTW- it was not the tone of TIH that made it one of the least financially successful.

Now MS have said GOTG will be tonally very similar to The Avengers- a blend of action and laughs, and the Russo bros have said CA2 will be a mixture of Action and comedy. Personally I don't think there should be ANY comedy in a Captain America film, instead it should be played straight.

Anyone else concerned about the phase II films possibly turning out to be formulaic derivatives of The Avengers with unnecessary humour inserted to appeal to the masses instead of them all having their own unique identity?

 

[KangConquers]

I wish to express a concern about phase II, here it is-

My concern is that the phase II films will all/most of em, be a formulaic blend of action and comedic relief based on the success of The Avengers. In Avengers it worked great, but that does not mean I want every phase II film to have the exact same tone as Avengers. Although it was one of the least successful MS films, I loved that TIH had a much darker tone than any of the other films and was absent of any comedy, but I worry MS will never make a film like that again. BTW- it was not the tone of TIH that made it one of the least financially successful.

Now MS have said GOTG will be tonally very similar to The Avengers- a blend of action and laughs, and the Russo bros have said CA2 will be a mixture of Action and comedy. Personally I don't think there should be ANY comedy in a Captain America film, instead it should be played straight.

Anyone else concerned about the phase II films possibly turning out to be formulaic derivatives of The Avengers with unnecessary humour inserted to appeal to the masses instead of them all having their own unique identity?

The Incredible Hulk wasn't "dark". At all. There were several attempts at humor (The stretchy pants against the fat woman's bottom, the purple pant cameo, the "You won't like me when I'm hungry") The fact that the humor sucked didn't make the film dark.

Almost all of the MCU films have a similar feel. That's what you strive for in a film franchise. They've always tried to go for Darker than Raimi Spider-Man, but lighter than Nolan's Batman, and that's likely where the franchise will remain.

 

[bubbadoom]

While it made sense for the various films of "Phase I" to build towards THE AVENGERS, I do not think there is a similar need for ALL of "Phase II" to build towards some event film like AVENGERS 2. It would be possible for something like GUARDIANS to be a stand alone, or not impact the others films until say AVENGERS 3, or if Dr. Strange gets his solo movie, he does not need to show up as an Avenger, etc.

 

[spideymouse]

The die was cast when RDJ was cast as Iron Man. I think they needed to set up the universe with a tone where the fantastic could be plausible/believable, where the characters are human and relatable, where comic book worlds are appropriately adapted to film yet still true to the source material, and most importantly, where you feel like any and all other superheroes could co-exist. Otherwise, you really do end up with how Warner Brothers is treating its properties.

By the way, if you want to find unnecessary humor, look no further than Nolan's Batman movies.

Anyway, I think each movie will look and feel different enough based on each of the directors' visions and styles, the different directions that the characters need to go, and last but not least, the scores. I would be concerned if Whedon were to micromanage how everything is shot in each movie, if Whedon were to force every movie's plot to point straight to Avengers 2, and if Alan Silvestri were to do the scores for all Phase II films. I don't see that happening with Marvel, so I'm not concerned.

 

[DrCosmic]

Anyone else concerned about the phase II films possibly turning out to be formulaic derivatives of The Avengers with unnecessary humour inserted to appeal to the masses instead of them all having their own unique identity?

I actually agree with this concern. I hadn't heard Cap being Action/Comedy before, that is sad. I also agree TIH had a darker tone (palette, isolation themes, Pyrrhic victory, anti-hero lead, etc) - not as dark as Baleman, but certainly darker than Avengers or Iron Man. That said, TIH was als the least successful of the bunch. The money is in action and laughs. Thor will probably be the darkest this time around, at least in palette, I suspect it will be darker than Avengers, it's that kind of sequel, as opposed to Cap2, which is more

Then again IM3 has some isolationist themes, going back to the cave and all that. It may be too soon to call Phase II derivative, even if Cap will be too light, and imho, the first was a bit too light as well.

 

[marcvader]

There has been nowhere stated that Cap 2 is being filmed as an action comedy. Disgruntled fanboys are the ones that continue to harp on that because of the Russo bros. hiring.

 

[DrCosmic]

I'll take your sig and avy as authority on the subject. Good news, and so even less cause for concern. Seeing as how Avengers 2 will be darker, the whole thing could be considered the darker 'second act' for the MCU.

 

[KangConquers]

I actually agree with this concern. I hadn't heard Cap being Action/Comedy before, that is sad. I also agree TIH had a darker tone (palette, isolation themes, Pyrrhic victory, anti-hero lead, etc) - not as dark as Baleman, but certainly darker than Avengers or Iron Man. That said, TIH was als the least successful of the bunch. The money is in action and laughs. Thor will probably be the darkest this time around, at least in palette, I suspect it will be darker than Avengers, it's that kind of sequel, as opposed to Cap2, which is more

Then again IM3 has some isolationist themes, going back to the cave and all that. It may be too soon to call Phase II derivative, even if Cap will be too light, and imho, the first was a bit too light as well.

I think you're confusing TIH being homogenous and lifeless for it being Dark, and using what you know about the character from the comics to fill on what was basically a routine chase film that ended with two poorly constructed CGI creatures beating the crap out of each other. Very little pathos.

The only Pyrrhic victory in the MCU so far is in Avengers. I think TIH failed to show even the same amount of loss and devastation in it's big fight than Thor did.

I'll take your sig and avy as authority on the subject. Good news, and so even less cause for concern. Seeing as how Avengers 2 will be darker, the whole thing could be considered the darker 'second act' for the MCU.

I think the Avengers was a bit darker than you're implying.

 

[Chewy]

A deft balance between the light and the dark moments is what has made these movies popular. People talk about the lighter moments because that's what they're ultimately looking for in their summer blockbusters. But Iron Man in the cave or Thor right after he fails to lift his hammer, etc, are darker and more meaningful moments than anything in TIH.

People on the internet treat these movies like they're Fantastic Four mostly because they're looking for things to criticize.

 

[KangConquers]

A deft balance between the light and the dark moments is what has made these movies popular. People talk about the lighter moments because that's what they're ultimately looking for in their summer blockbusters. But Iron Man in the cave or Thor right after he fails to lift his hammer, etc, are darker and more meaningful moments than anything in TIH.

People on the internet treat these movies like they're Fantastic Four mostly because they're looking for things to criticize.

Exactly. I can think of 10-15 dark moments in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and none of them come from the Incredible Hulk. If anything, that's the MCU film with the lightest tone, as there's never a sense of danger or loss.

 

[OB12]

Tbf, the deleted alternate opening of TIH would've been darker than anything in the MCU.

 

[KangConquers]

Tbf, the deleted alternate opening of TIH would've been darker than anything in the MCU.

But it isn't in the movie.

 

[OB12]

Just saying the potential was there.

 

[Chewy]

Opening a movie with a suicide attempt is so awkward. Especially when it's not a sequel. You need to earn that moment otherwise it's meaningless.

We got to know Banner before he talked about it in Avengers. And honestly hearing about it in context in the Avengers gives it so much more weight than seeing it as a random opening to a reboot would have.

 

[KangConquers]

Opening a movie with a suicide attempt is so awkward. Especially when it's not a sequel. You need to earn that moment otherwise it's meaningless.

We got to know Banner before he talked about it in Avengers. And honestly hearing about it in context in the Avengers gives it so much more weight than seeing it as a random opening to a reboot would have.

Well, TIH was sort of a Tweakquel. But I agree. It's too much too soon.

 

[OB12]

I tend to agree. I mean I liked it because I know Banner and his story and his struggle, but for the GA I can see why it wasn't included. If they could've incorporated something similar at another point in the film, I think it would've added a bunch to the movie.

 

[KangConquers]

There are a lot of ways TIH could've done the character more justice.

 

[Radioactive1980]

The Incredible Hulk wasn't "dark". At all.

Wrong.

Instead of a genius billionaire playboy philanthropist who always has a snappy comeback, or a super soldier with a never say die attitude, the protagonist here is a guy who is constantly on the run from the authorities, who has gone through periods of depression and generally is a pretty desperate and lonely individual. Also the violence in TIH has a more visceral quality than in any other MS film- the scene were Hulk front kicks Blonsky into a tree springs to mind. Also visually speaking, a lot of the film actually occurs at night, or in the dark- Hulk's first appearance in the bottle factory, Banner walking along the side of a road at night, the cave scene, the fight with A-bomb, so you see- TIH is more dark than the other MS films in a number of ways.

There were several attempts at humor (The stretchy pants against the fat woman's bottom, the purple pant cameo, the "You won't like me when I'm hungry") The fact that the humor sucked didn't make the film dark.

A joke between Bruce and Betty to try and lighten their mood is not the same thing as a scene that was created specifically to elicit laughter from the audience- see Hulk rag doll Loki. The 'humour' in TIH did not suck, as the lines you cite as humour in that film were not intended to be funny.

 

[KangConquers]

I think Avengers was just a more dynamic movie, period. The Darkest moments in Avengers were darker than TIH's, and the lighetst moments were lighter.

This is kind of off topic for Phase II, since it technically starts phase 3. But with Marvel starting to leave Summer and try out fall release dates in 2013 with Thor: The Dark World (and possibly in 2014 with Ant-Man), how would you guys feel about Phase III starting in November 2015 instead of May 2016?

It would have to be a movie that didn't feature any (or many) characters involved in Avengers 2, to avoid shooting conflicts, but if that date proves viable, maybe a Doctor Strange or Black Panther origin film in November?

 

[Radioactive1980]

how would you guys feel about Phase III starting in November 2015 instead of May 2016?

Nah, you have gotta give these films some breathing room, especially one as big as A2. If they start spamming too many per year, the GA may start to get sick of them. Plus Ant-Man has not been given a date yet, that could turn out being a 2015 film. I say wait till 2016.

 

[terry78]

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=94609

"Very talented people are writing and directing these movies, and what I don't want to be is the guy they dread, who's going to come in and say" - here, Whedon affects a pompous British accent - "'Oh, well I have the power to say change this.' I'm not that."