MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Docker2.0]

Okay I can accept that being caught was part of Loki's plan but that repulsor blast flattened him - the Nanotech suit is much more powerful. Give Loki the Casket of Winters and Gungnir and he has a chance but I still don't see how he can defeat Tony. Fool him, confuse him? Sure, but unless he tricks Tony into flying into a nuclear bomb blast I can't see Loki winning.

Also, Is MCU Loki really in Thor's league ? - in the comics definitely, but not so much in the films, otherwise they wouldn't need to do "Get Help !"

Hey, on that note.... Loki vs Dr Strange ! I go with the Dr but only by a hair !

Loki has taken blows from Thor and also held his own so he's certainly in Thor's league. Loki is always scheming when it comes to Thor so it's hard to say when he REALLY wants to win in a fight. Plus Asgardian magic maybe able to confuse Tony's tech. Tony's tech really hasn't fought any magicians so no telling how it would react to it.

 

[Luigi]

Iron Man

Tony packs some massive firepower that would eventually wear down Loki.

 

[Batmannerism]

Loki has taken blows from Thor and also held his own so he's certainly in Thor's league. Loki is always scheming when it comes to Thor so it's hard to say when he REALLY wants to win in a fight. Plus Asgardian magic maybe able to confuse Tony's tech. Tony's tech really hasn't fought any magicians so no telling how it would react to it.

I still think you are overselling Loki's durability.

Having seen Loki completely smashed by the Hulk, and KO'd by Valkyrie I think we can make a reasonable assumption that Thor did not hit his little brother with all he had.

Iron Man's repulsors in Avengers also sent Thor flying ( as well as flattening Loki) , so the more advanced nanosuit has likely got enough punch to deal to Loki.

Agree to disagree I suppose - we'll see how the poll falls on this one.

 

[Bayne]

I still think you are overselling Loki's durability.

Having seen Loki completely smashed by the Hulk, and KO'd by Valkyrie I think we can make a reasonable assumption that Thor did not hit his little brother with all he had.

Iron Man's repulsors in Avengers also sent Thor flying ( as well as flattening Loki) , so the more advanced nanosuit has likely got enough punch to deal to Loki.

Agree to disagree I suppose - we'll see how the poll falls on this one.

I think you put too much stock in 'knocked back' and 'sent flying'. Being able to knock an Asgardian off their feet is not the same as being able to seriously hurt them. The only Avenger we've ever seen seriously hurt an Asgardian is Hulk and he would've beat the hell out of Iron Man's best shot, too, if it weren't for Scarlet Witch's mind-sifting making him confused. Hell, Iron Man would've been dead in that match-up, whereas Loki came out of a ridiculous Hulk beating looking like someone who was just in a bit of a barfight. He could even still talk normally and calmly and stand under his own power. He's durable AF.

But the poll will decide.

 

[Batmannerism]

I think you put too much stock in 'knocked back' and 'sent flying'. Being able to knock an Asgardian off their feet is not the same as being able to seriously hurt them. The only Avenger we've ever seen seriously hurt an Asgardian is Hulk and he would've beat the hell out of Iron Man's best shot, too, if it weren't for Scarlet Witch's mind-sifting making him confused. Hell, Iron Man would've been dead in that match-up, whereas Loki came out of a ridiculous Hulk beating looking like someone who was just in a bit of a barfight. He could even still talk normally and calmly and stand under his own power. He's durable AF.

But the poll will decide.

Yes ! Bring on the poll !

I suspect Iron Man will win this by a very narrow margin - ( not to be a smarta@@ but Loki isn't an Asgardian, as he points out in Infinity War - although who knows how difference that will make ?).

We'll know soon enough.

 

[Bayne]

Yes ! Bring on the poll !

I suspect Iron Man will win this by a very narrow margin - ( not to be a smarta@@ but Loki isn't an Asgardian, as he points out in Infinity War - although who knows how difference that will make ?).

This is true but also kind of confusing since the MCU kind of constantly acts like he is one except when playing up the 'adopted' thing.

I can only assume that the son of the king of the frost giants must be the physical equal of an Asgardian. Or that whatever Odin did to make Loki look like an Asgardian also made him the physical equivalent of an Asgardian.

 

[Imjenn]

I vote Ironman. The versatility of his nano suit I feel like is just too much to handle. I'm undecided on whether or not Ironman's sensors would be fooled by Loki's illusions or not, but I feel like more often then not, even if they did fool his sensors, Tony would deduce the illusions fairly quickly.

Loki's knives could certainly pierce Ironman's armor in my opinion, since they are able to cut Thor. Though the nanosuit self heals, and I highly doubt Loki could push the suit beyond those capabilities like Thanos did.

 

[Docker2.0]

I vote Ironman. The versatility of his nano suit I feel like is just too much to handle. I'm undecided on whether or not Ironman's sensors would be fooled by Loki's illusions or not, but I feel like more often then not, even if they did fool his sensors, Tony would deduce the illusions fairly quickly.

Loki's knifes could certainly pierce Ironman's armor in my opinion, since they are able to cut Thor. Though the nanosuit self heals, and I highly doubt Loki could push the suit beyond those capabilities like Thanos did.

Loki's illusions were able to fool SHIELD when he took on the form of Dr Selvik and none of their tech was able to detect it was him...........and before someone says that it was Dr. Selvik himself, no it wasn't. Loki didn't take control of him until he touched him with the sceptor.............or was it? I don't know, that scene has always confused me. But my point stands.

 

[Imjenn]

Loki's illusions were able to fool SHIELD when he took on the form of Dr Selvik and none of their tech was able to detect it was him...........and before someone says that it was Dr. Selvik himself, no it wasn't. Loki didn't take control of him until he touched him with the sceptor.............or was it? I don't know, that scene has always confused me. But my point stands.

You have a great point, I completely forgot about that moment.

Taking that in mind, I still vote Ironman, but it is a lot closer than I originally thought

 

[Docker2.0]

In a major upset, Iron Man defeats Loki 5-3...........which I don't agree with but I digress .............next up:
Viewer requested match:

Dr. Strange

vs Scarlett Witch

Who you got peeps?

 

[Docker2.0]

You have a great point, I completely forgot about that moment.

Taking that in mind, I still vote Ironman, but it is a lot closer than I originally thought

What?!

The same list with Spider Aziz!

 

[Stormborn]

next up:
Viewer requested match:

Dr. Strange

vs Scarlett Witch

Who you got peeps?

Going by feats Wanda seems to have greater raw power (we've seen her overpower Thanos, destroy the mind stone, casually throw around huge alien machines etc) and her shields would block a direct attack.

On the other hand, Strange has a huge array of spells he can use to outmanoeuvre her (e.g. portals, flight, shields, body duplication etc) and take her out (e.g. energy blasts, conjured weapons, binding spells, trapping her with a portal).

Since they're both easily powerful enough to take the other out as soon as they land one clean hit, I think the deciding factor is skill. With that in mind, I vote Strange because of how impressive his IW fight with Thanos was.

In a major upset, Iron Man defeats Loki 5-3...........which I don't agree with but I digress .............

To be fair, I do think IW Iron Man could probably beat Loki if you take the extremely OP weapons Loki had in Thor 1/Avengers 1 out of the equation.

 

[Docker2.0]

Going by feats Wanda seems to have greater raw power (we've seen her overpower Thanos, destroy the mind stone, casually throw around huge alien machines etc) and her shields would block a direct attack.

On the other hand, Strange has a huge array of spells he can use to outmanoeuvre her (e.g. portals, flight, shields, body duplication etc) and take her out (e.g. energy blasts, conjured weapons, binding spells, trapping her with a portal).

Since they're both easily powerful enough to take the other out as soon as they land one clean hit, I think the deciding factor is skill and with that in mind, I vote Strange.



To be fair, I do think IW Iron Man could probably beat Loki if you take the extremely OP weapons Loki had in Thor 1/Avengers 1 out of the equation.

Dang it man! Even when Loki loses, he wins! He is steps ahead and is planning mischief. If Thor could handle IronMan's weapons, Loki could as well. At no point is Loki EVER really hurt by IronMan. EVER. Heck, he really isn't hurt by Hulk. He is able to exchange blows with Thor. He's up there in strength and durable but for whatever reason just doesn't like to show it.

 

[Batmannerism]

Wanda vs Strange. Difficult to say. It does really depend on who gets the first good shot in. Given how well Strange did against Thanos, and his ability to create portals, I'll give him the edge and say he wins 7/10 times. Otherwise Wanda has so much raw power that she will crush Strange if he doesn't take her out first.

I don't really want to prolong the argument about Loki - but in terms of his illusions fooling SHIELD, well they weren't expecting him, and didn't know he existed until he appeared at the start of Avengers and started killing people.

Tony knows who Loki is and what he can do - Loki's illusions are great as a sneak attack, but these match ups are straight up fights.

Who does Loki have any significant combat feats against? Frost giants, dark elves and asgardian zombies ( who are nowhere near as tough as living asgardians, as they can be taken out by bullets). We've seen him get his ass handed to him by both Hulk and Valkyrie - either of whom could have finished him off if they'd wanted to.

The only time he's fought Thor has been with weapons ( Gungnir and the Sceptre). We've seen Thor knock the Hulk around with punches and a hammer ( not even Mjolnir) so clearly Thor wasn't using anywhere near his full strength against Loki when they've fought.

There is no basis from the films to suggest that Loki is comparable to Thor in strength or durability.

So in short I respect your opinion but cannot agree with you - and I've been on the wrong side of the poll many times, so I understand where you're coming from.

Anyway, the poll has spoken and soon we'll see how Strange v Wanda turns out. Have a great Christmas.

 

[Bayne]

I think in raw power Wanda seems stronger right now - though I can't entirely be certain that that impression isn't colored by my comic book knowledge that her power is literally unlimited even though that hasn't featured yet in the films. And Strange's power is also incredible even without the time stone.

So I have to agree, as things stand today, this has to come down to either luck or skill/who has their head in the game and those aspects are unquestionably tilted toward Strange.

But really, I gotta say this match-up feels heavily premature. I'd really like to revisit this one after we've seen WandaVision and Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. I think those will likely have massive influence on this match-up.

 

[Imjenn]

What?!

The same list with Spider Aziz!

I'll take that list with pride

Wanda vs Strange.

I tend to go for variety over power in these matchups, as evidenced by my vote in the previous match. I don't think we've seen the upper limit of Strange's power. What he showed vs Thanos on Titan was great, including neutralizing attacks from the reality stone.

Though he also fought a telekinetic in that same movie, one who I don't see as being on the same level as Wanda. Maw quickly disabled Strange and captured him with little effort. He uses more finesse than Wanda typically does, but he didn't do anything she couldn't. She did have enough delicate control to remove poison gas from a building in Civil War.

I vote Wanda for her raw power. I see her getting to her Godzilla threshold quicker then Strange, and I feel like this battle would take both of their upper limits to win.

 

[Docker2.0]

Wanda vs Strange. Difficult to say. It does really depend on who gets the first good shot in. Given how well Strange did against Thanos, and his ability to create portals, I'll give him the edge and say he wins 7/10 times. Otherwise Wanda has so much raw power that she will crush Strange if he doesn't take her out first.

I don't really want to prolong the argument about Loki - but in terms of his illusions fooling SHIELD, well they weren't expecting him, and didn't know he existed until he appeared at the start of Avengers and started killing people.

Tony knows who Loki is and what he can do - Loki's illusions are great as a sneak attack, but these match ups are straight up fights.

Who does Loki have any significant combat feats against? Frost giants, dark elves and asgardian zombies ( who are nowhere near as tough as living asgardians, as they can be taken out by bullets). We've seen him get his ass handed to him by both Hulk and Valkyrie - either of whom could have finished him off if they'd wanted to.

The only time he's fought Thor has been with weapons ( Gungnir and the Sceptre). We've seen Thor knock the Hulk around with punches and a hammer ( not even Mjolnir) so clearly Thor wasn't using anywhere near his full strength against Loki when they've fought.

There is no basis from the films to suggest that Loki is comparable to Thor in strength or durability.

So in short I respect your opinion but cannot agree with you - and I've been on the wrong side of the poll many times, so I understand where you're coming from.

Anyway, the poll has spoken and soon we'll see how Strange v Wanda turns out. Have a great Christmas.

If Thanos or even Captain America punched me or you, we may not live because they are just physically superior to us. Loki has taken blows from Hulk, Thor, Kurse and other super strong beings. But you are right. The poll spoke for us(though it was wrong but whatever).........................
This ain't over!

 

[Docker2.0]

I think in raw power Wanda seems stronger right now - though I can't entirely be certain that that impression isn't colored by my comic book knowledge that her power is literally unlimited even though that hasn't featured yet in the films. And Strange's power is also incredible even without the time stone.

So I have to agree, as things stand today, this has to come down to either luck or skill/who has their head in the game and those aspects are unquestionably tilted toward Strange.

But really, I gotta say this match-up feels heavily premature. I'd really like to revisit this one after we've seen WandaVision and Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. I think those will likely have massive influence on this match-up.

Who TF did you vote for?!

 

[Bayne]

Who TF did you vote for?!

It's Strange you couldn't tell.

But - who am I to judge, anyway?

 

[Docker2.0]

Strange wins 2-1.....thanks Bayne. Next up:
The Vision

Vs the Abomination

Who you got peeps?

 

[Docker2.0]

It's Strange you couldn't tell.

But - who am I to judge, anyway?

You're somebody.............to me...................

 

[Bayne]

Vision.

I still don't think there's any real counterpoint to phasing. Hell, it might even be one of the few powersets that could conceivably injure a hulk. And Vision is made of Vibranium - someone remind me, have we ever seen Hulk punch Cap's shield? If so, did he do any better than Mjolnir?

Plus Abomination is only a discount hulk, anyway, and the mind blast was good enough for Ultron's vibranium body.

 

[Stormborn]

Vision Wins.

Between his vibranium durability and his ability to avoid hits with flight & phasing I can't see Abom hurting him.

On the other hand, Vision has an infinity stone powered ranged attack and in close quarters he's strong enough to grapple with Ultron and knock Giant Man around. That should be more than enough to put Abom down.

Plus Abomination is only a discount hulk, anyway.

He was very close in power to 2008 Hulk (who was struggling to leap Harlem buildings) but nowhere near as powerful as Hulk later became (e.g. leaping across Asgard and sucker punching Surtur).

I still don't think there's any real counterpoint to phasing. Hell, it might even be one of the few powersets that could conceivably injure a hulk.

• It's a great power for avoiding most attacks (including everything Abom's capable of) but it's not unbeatable. We've seen electricity, Scarlet Witch's powers and Corvus's blade disrupt Vision's phasing.
• As an offensive power, we've seen Vision use phasing to tear apart an Ultron bot from the inside but that's it. We can only guess whether it would work against stronger/more durable opponents.

 

[Batmannerism]

Strange wins 2-1.....thanks Bayne. Next up:
The Vision

Vs the Abomination

Who you got peeps?

Vision.

- unsure of whether phasing attacks woul harm the abomination but it certainly is a complete defence to Abomination's attacks, which would all be physical.

- Infinity stone blasts, a ranged attack that might wear Abomination down, they were powerful enough to damage vibranium.

- flight, gives a serious mobility adavntage especially when combined with phasing.

Unsure just how strong Vision is, but he's got an array of powers that if used effectively should be enough to overwhelm Abomination IMO.

 

[Docker2.0]

*sigh* I see this won't end well. Vision wins 3-0. Next up:

The Vulture

Vs. Luke Cage

Who you got peeps?