MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Docker2.0]

Professor Hulk vs Juggernaut:

Yeah, Hulk takes it. I would note that we have zero evidence that Professor Hulk is meaningfully weaker than 'normal' Hulk. His only relevant feat in the movie is "Is badly injured using the Infinity Gauntlet, but not only survives but continues fighting in the big battle", which doesn't really tell us anything since *Thanos* could be messed up by using the Infinity Gauntlet.

If you want to draw from the comics, Professor Hulk was just as strong as any other typical Hulk incarnation, a top grade class 100 brick. If you want to guestimate by size, Professor Hulk looked a little smaller than his size in the earlier movies, but not so much that the proportionate change would really make a huge difference. Either way, he should still easily be out of Juggernaut's league.

In the comics,Professor Hulk is nowhere near as strong as regular Hulk. There was a huge downgrade in power.

 

[metaphysician]

You guys just are under estimating the Juggernaut because of the ass joke thing but he is not to far out of the Hulk's league on film.

*citation needed*

I am only half-facetious, because you are making a claim for which there is no evidence. The best ( nay, only ) useful feat for Juggernaut is "Is somewhat brickier than Colossus". Who is a solidly impressive brick going by his feats from the first Deadpool movie, but nothing even approaching class 100.

 

[ernesth100]

*citation needed*

I am only half-facetious, because you are making a claim for which there is no evidence. The best ( nay, only ) useful feat for Juggernaut is "Is somewhat brickier than Colossus". Who is a solidly impressive brick going by his feats from the first Deadpool movie, but nothing even approaching class 100.

Hulk probably takes this because he's not only stronger but waaaaaaay smarter. He doesn't even necessarily have to out muscle his badies anymore. He can just toss juggs into space or something.

 

[Luigi]

Professor Hulk

There wasn't anything to show that he was weaker in Endgame and this is the same guy that traded blows with Thor.

 

[Docker2.0]

Bah!!

Next up:
Karli

vs Black Widow

Who you got peeps?

 

[Still Wynning]

It’s a little early to call since only two episodes of TFATWS have been released, but I’m going to say Black Widow.

Black Widow gets into two scuffles with Bucky as the Winter Soldier, who has some form of a Super Soldier Serum in his biology with past experimentation from Hydra, and she loses both times, and just barely escapes with her life the first time. However, he does have the metal arm which gives him some advantage over her in both of those situations. So, she can’t confront them up close.

Now, with Karli, judging by the rest of her team, who are also enhanced with some form of a Super Soldier Serum, she’s probably just as strong as Bucky probably is. We see her kick Bucky out of the back of the truck into the other truck with a single kick, which would probably critically injure or kill a normal person.

However, If Natasha has the weapons, gadgets and wherewithal to take her one on one, Karli could be taken out. As seen by John Walker shooting his gun at one of the Flag Smashers and the Power Broker’s lackeys killing one of them with a hail of bullets, they are still susceptible to gunfire, if they aren’t careful. So, Black Widow, if prepared with the right strategies, weapons, ammunition and keeping her distance, could probably take Karli out with some shots to the body and a few shots to the head.

Karli’s super strong, but her skull still ain’t stopping a well-placed bullet to the face.

 

[Iceman]

I think 1 on 1 Natasha wins. The flag smashers had too much of a numbers advantage and I think any of the hero characters would have been fine 1 on 1. They have so much more experience in higher level fights. This is why MCU Cap can best an inexperienced Spider-Man reasonably confidently in CW too.

 

[Docker2.0]

Black Widow is the most overrated Marvel character when she goes up against someone. She can beat Thanos with the power stone.

 

[Fosterson]

It's quite staggering to see people backing Natasha here. I fail to see how she stands a chance against someone who managed to send Bucky flying back several metres with a single punch with sufficient force to smash the windscreen of the truck behind, casually smashed apart Redwing and who fodderized John Walker in H2H. Her durability is way above Natasha's as well, given that she was fine after being bashed in the head by Cap's shield several times. I seriously doubt Natasha can even hurt someone who can smash through a road sign without flinching.

I agree that if you give Natasha a gun she wins. But that's not exactly fair is it? In pure H2H she gets one-shotted.

 

[Fosterson]

Black Widow is the most overrated Marvel character when she goes up against someone. She can beat Thanos with the power stone.

I guess its the ScarJo love, right?

In all seriousness though, I think too often in these match-ups villains get lowballed and heroes get hyped up to kingdom come simply because they're more popular.

Which is how you end up with nonsense like Cap beating Ronan the Accuser.

 

[Docker2.0]

I guess its the ScarJo love, right?

In all seriousness though, I think too often in these match-ups villains get lowballed and heroes get hyped up to kingdom come simply because they're more popular.

Which is how you end up with nonsense like Cap beating Ronan the Accuser.

Preach!! I feel like I'm on an island talking about this.

 

[Batmannerism]

H2H Widow gets overpowered.

If Widow has a gun, she wins.

Not much more to it really.

 

[metaphysician]

Black Widow vs Karli:

Black Widow should take it. Ultimately, Karli does not come off as especially skilled. She managed in the fight with Bucky and Sam through surprise and numbers, plus Bucky being generally off his game. A one on one fight against Natasha, she doesn't have those advantages. Yes, she's strong and tough, but those don't matter against a much more skilled opponent who has ranged weapons, excellent marksmanship, and enough brains to not get into a melee fight.

As for this alleged overrating, I think the much bigger issue is people presuming that "superhuman must beat human" without any consideration of the actual circumstances of the conflict. For instance, yes, Karli is stronger than Natasha, by a sizable margin. However, strength *doesn't matter* if the opponent never gets into melee range. Its not enough to have a given advantage, it needs to be an advantage you can actually leverage.

 

[InCali]

Black Widow is the most overrated Marvel character when she goes up against someone. She can beat Thanos with the power stone.

Black Widow wins.

 

[Batmannerism]

Black Widow vs Karli:

Black Widow should take it. Ultimately, Karli does not come off as especially skilled. She managed in the fight with Bucky and Sam through surprise and numbers, plus Bucky being generally off his game. A one on one fight against Natasha, she doesn't have those advantages. Yes, she's strong and tough, but those don't matter against a much more skilled opponent who has ranged weapons, excellent marksmanship, and enough brains to not get into a melee fight.

As for this alleged overrating, I think the much bigger issue is people presuming that "superhuman must beat human" without any consideration of the actual circumstances of the conflict. For instance, yes, Karli is stronger than Natasha, by a sizable margin. However, strength *doesn't matter* if the opponent never gets into melee range. Its not enough to have a given advantage, it needs to be an advantage you can actually leverage.

All of that I agree with, but I think it's worth acknowledging that the deciding factor still appears to be a firearm.

If we take away Widow's weapons, particularly her guns, and make it a straight hand to hand fight, she's going to get overpowered very quickly ( now I agree that Widow would never allow herself to be put in such a position - but for the sake of argument let us assume that this has occurred).

We've seen how Widow fared against Bucky in hand to hand twice, albeit briefly- she would have been dead in seconds had not another person intervened. I think its safe to assume Karli has nowhere near that level of skill - but if her strength and toughness are comparable to Buck's ( he jumped out of a plane, hit the ground, got up and jogged off...
Damn !) then Natasha can't do much to her with fists alone, and she may last longer than she did against Buck, but sooner or later she's going down.

While superhuman doesn't always beat human, when mere humans prevail there is almost always a factor that levels the playing field, in this case guns.

 

[Luigi]

Nat

Her ranged weapons and combat experience should give her the upper hand.

 

[Docker2.0]

Black Widow wins. Next up:

Nebula and Gamora

vs Luke Cage and Iron Fist

Who you got peeps?

 

[Batmannerism]

Black Widow wins. Next up:

Nebula and Gamora

vs Luke Cage and Iron Fist

Who you got peeps?

Tough call. I'll say Nebula and Gamora, assuming they're armed. Both are somewhat super strong and very durable. While I don't think they could outright kill Cage, I feel like their weapons could probably stun him.

In all honesty neither team is tactically gifted, but Nebula and Gamora spent years killing people together, so might have slightly better teamwork.

Also while I don't doubt the Iron Fist could put either Gamora or Nebula down, it wouldn't be for long - they'd be up in no time, can't say the same if they managed to hit Danny.

 

[InCali]

Black Widow wins. Next up:

Nebula and Gamora

vs Luke Cage and Iron Fist

Who you got peeps?

Nebula and Gamora. Luke's jaw drops when he sees Gamora and Nebula puts a grenade down his gullet. The only thing Danny is able to hit is a wall.

 

[metaphysician]

Nebula and Gamora vs Luke Cage and Iron Fist:

Team Space Girls, and its not close. Both Gamora and Nebula move and fight as if they were top tier martial arts types, which makes it very easy to forget that they are both considerably superhuman. Remember Nebula reacting to a rocket launcher to the face by getting up a few minutes later and walking it off. Remember Gamora taking a torn-off piece of space ship artillery, carrying it around and firing it.

Luke and Danny are out of their league. Luke doesn't have enough fighting skill to take on opponents who are, I will be generous and say roughly in his physical league ( you can make a case for above him ). Danny doesn't have enough physical oomph to make up for that he's fighting opponents at least as skilled as him, only they don't need a limited use magic punch because they hit like that all the time.

Oh, and this is before getting into weapons, seeing as both of them routinely carry around appropriately scaled space gear. Honestly, if they wished, they could end this fight by going "Just shoot them", and neither Luke nor Danny is going to walk that off.

 

[ernesth100]

Luke got done in by a well placed shotgun blast. Nebula and Gamora take this.

 

[Docker2.0]

Nebula and Gamora win. Next up:

Antman and the Wasp

vs White Vision

Who you got peeps?!................and Incali................you ain't my peeps any more. Just cause.......

 

[Luigi]

Ant-Man and Wasp

If things get dire enough, Scott has shown that he's willing to shrink through molecules to win a fight.

 

[Batmannerism]

Nebula and Gamora win. Next up:

Antman and the Wasp

vs White Vision

Who you got peeps?!................and Incali................you ain't my peeps any more. Just cause.......

Hmmm...... I'm going with White Vision 6/10.
If he can detect them he can kill them both, we know that Vision can stagger Giant Man, and he has ranged weapons, super strength, flight and the phasing attack/defense. More importantly he's a robot, so he can lose an arm or leg and probably still function.

At least 4/10 times Ant Man and Wasp come up with something clever enough to take him out.
E.g. shrinking down super small, getting inside him and doing enough damage to disable him.
However, most times he would simply phase and they wouldn't be able to harm him and might simply just fall out of him.

So Vision.

 

[metaphysician]

Ant-Man and Wasp vs White Vision:

Same answer as last time with Normal Vision- "Depends on if they can shrink the Vision". If they can, Team Ant wins. If not, they don't. And I have no way to even guess whether it would work or not, given how much weird exotic crap is going on with Vision's body ( even the reborn White Vision ).