MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Batmannerism]

Bucky wins. Next up: A repeat match

Ultron

vs Guardians of the Galaxy

Who you got peeps?!

I'll say the Guardians, although some of them would be badly injured or killed. Im counting on Gamora, Groot and Drax to keep Ultron busy while Yondu attacks with his magic arrow and Rocket and Quill finds a way to disable his systems or AI.

Mantis is best sitting this one out.

Guardians win 6/10.

 

[Luigi]

Ultron

Ultron but it'll be a close one. It'd largely depend on whether Yondu's arrow can damage Ultron's vibranium armor and whether or not Rocket would have enough time to come up with a way to disable Ultron.

 

[Batmannerism]

Ultron

Ultron but it'll be a close one. It'd largely depend on whether Yondu's arrow can damage Ultron's vibranium armor and whether or not Rocket would have enough time to come up with a way to disable Ultron.

Is that actually vibranium armoured Ultron or just the Prime Ultron bot ? - because even Cap could go toe to toe with that version of Ultron.

Even if it is armoured vibranium Ultron - Rocket or Quill might have EMP type devices that short circuit him, without blasting through the armour itself.

 

[Luigi]

My bad, it is Prime Ultron. Hmm I'll switch my vote for the Guardians then.

 

[metaphysician]

Ultron vs the Guardians:

Yeah, assuming this is the Prime form from the finale, Ultron takes it. The Guardians are powerful and often underrated, but not in a way that especially helps them here. In particular, their usual trump card, Mantis and her mental attack, is entirely useless ( AoU showed that telepathy was explicitly ineffective on Ultron unless he's interfacing with the Mind Stone ). Outside of that, a few Guardians may be able to at least theoretically hurt Ultron, but in practice this is a lot like Guardians vs Thor or Vision- a single foe that not only is a big step above them in total power, but has a broad and flexible power package that doesn't leave any exploitable weaknesses. Which is a bad situation when you are a team as filled with glass cannons as the Guardians.

The only way the Guardians stand a chance is if they are allowed a silly amount of unfair preptime and battlefield preparation ( think "the battle takes place on a space cruiser, which Rocket has already rigged the power core to serve as a asteroid-smashing nuclear self destruct" ).

 

[Batmannerism]

Ultron vs the Guardians:

Yeah, assuming this is the Prime form from the finale, Ultron takes it. The Guardians are powerful and often underrated, but not in a way that especially helps them here. In particular, their usual trump card, Mantis and her mental attack, is entirely useless ( AoU showed that telepathy was explicitly ineffective on Ultron unless he's interfacing with the Mind Stone ). Outside of that, a few Guardians may be able to at least theoretically hurt Ultron, but in practice this is a lot like Guardians vs Thor or Vision- a single foe that not only is a big step above them in total power, but has a broad and flexible power package that doesn't leave any exploitable weaknesses. Which is a bad situation when you are a team as filled with glass cannons as the Guardians.

The only way the Guardians stand a chance is if they are allowed a silly amount of unfair preptime and battlefield preparation ( think "the battle takes place on a space cruiser, which Rocket has already rigged the power core to serve as a asteroid-smashing nuclear self destruct" ).

I don't think the Guardians could overpower a vibranium infused Ultron, but there are other ways to beat him besides blasting through his outer casing with raw power( as we saw with Vision, who was temporarily stopped by 2 taser arrows from Hawkeye). Rocket could theoreticallly create some sort of EMP to disable his systems or alternatively a device that could drain Ultron's power source.

It's kind of like the Xmen villain Sebastián Shaw - you can't beat him by hitting him hard, but passive attacks ( gas, constriction, freezing etc.) have defeated him.

I would distinguish Ultron from Thor, because while he has certain advantages ( he doesn't need to breathe, eat or sleep) his artificial nature carries some limitations - he needs equipment for self repair, he runs on a power source that may be depleted etc. His computer brain can be accessed and affected by other AI.

Given their resourcefulness and access to alien technology, I think it is well within the range of possibility that the Guardians could defeat Ultron, although some of them would likely die or be severely injured in the process.

 

[Docker2.0]

GOtG win yet again, though I don't know how. Next up:

Taskmaster

vs Gamora

Funny...............Taskmaster is a female but they use a male(clearly)a male stand in but I digress! Nevertheless...........
Who you got peeps?!

 

[Batmannerism]

GOtG win yet again, though I don't know how. Next up:

Taskmaster

vs Gamora

Funny...............Taskmaster is a female but they use a male(clearly)a male stand in but I digress! Nevertheless...........
Who you got peeps?!

Gamora 10/10.

Taskmaster doesn’t have a significant skill advantage and while she could probably hurt Gamora with bullets and edged weapons, Gamora is still super tough and strong.

Gamora could take some punishment and still put down Taskmaster, even if TM had a surprise first strike advantage.

I just cant see TM winning what is likely to be a melee battle, given the big strength and durability advantage that Gamora has.

 

[Luigi]

Gamora

All she would have to do is grab a hold of Taskmaster and throw her around like a sack of potatoes.

 

[Babillygunn]

I really like comics Taskmaster. And she was all right in Black Widow, but I have to admit that the character was way under-powered. I don’t see the cinematic Taskmaster beating Gamora.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't think the Guardians could overpower a vibranium infused Ultron, but there are other ways to beat him besides blasting through his outer casing with raw power( as we saw with Vision, who was temporarily stopped by 2 taser arrows from Hawkeye). Rocket could theoreticallly create some sort of EMP to disable his systems or alternatively a device that could drain Ultron's power source.

It's kind of like the Xmen villain Sebastián Shaw - you can't beat him by hitting him hard, but passive attacks ( gas, constriction, freezing etc.) have defeated him.

I would distinguish Ultron from Thor, because while he has certain advantages ( he doesn't need to breathe, eat or sleep) his artificial nature carries some limitations - he needs equipment for self repair, he runs on a power source that may be depleted etc. His computer brain can be accessed and affected by other AI.

Given their resourcefulness and access to alien technology, I think it is well within the range of possibility that the Guardians could defeat Ultron, although some of them would likely die or be severely injured in the process.

In theory, sure, the Guardians could target Ultron with some kind of supertech EMP or computer virus or whatnot. The problem is that Ultron is *also* a tech genius of a sort, having created everything from numerous iterations of his own body to an extinction-event superweapon. And his number one archnemesis above all others was Tony Stark, who is *also* a tech supergenius known for solving problems with clever technical trickery. Thus, I find it reasonable to presume that Ultron wouldn't make it easy to hit him with non-standard anti-tech attacks, given he has the skill to design defenses and faced an opponent who plausibly could target such.

Does this mean that there is no chance that Rocket could come up with something potent enough to overcome these defenses anyway? No. . . but I think the odds that he can do so, during a fight with the equipment available, before dying? Basically zero. If you gave him a few hours of time, a workshop, and a borrowed set of Ultron specs from the Avengers computers? Sure. If you spotted the Guardians something like "a Nova Corp army" to provide extended delaying and coverage? Maybe. But just this roster? Not going to happen, they just aren't going to keep Ultron from murdering his way through them long enough to matter, especially with Rocket being one of the most fragile members of the team.

 

[metaphysician]

Taskmaster vs Gamora:

Yeah, Gamora takes this 10/10. I like Taskmaster, she's underrated a tad, but she's way out of her weight class here. The only way she could win is if she could somehow disarm and steal one of Gamora's weapons to use against her, and that is not realistically going to happen.

 

[Batmannerism]

In theory, sure, the Guardians could target Ultron with some kind of supertech EMP or computer virus or whatnot. The problem is that Ultron is *also* a tech genius of a sort, having created everything from numerous iterations of his own body to an extinction-event superweapon. And his number one archnemesis above all others was Tony Stark, who is *also* a tech supergenius known for solving problems with clever technical trickery. Thus, I find it reasonable to presume that Ultron wouldn't make it easy to hit him with non-standard anti-tech attacks, given he has the skill to design defenses and faced an opponent who plausibly could target such.

Does this mean that there is no chance that Rocket could come up with something potent enough to overcome these defenses anyway? No. . . but I think the odds that he can do so, during a fight with the equipment available, before dying? Basically zero. If you gave him a few hours of time, a workshop, and a borrowed set of Ultron specs from the Avengers computers? Sure. If you spotted the Guardians something like "a Nova Corp army" to provide extended delaying and coverage? Maybe. But just this roster? Not going to happen, they just aren't going to keep Ultron from murdering his way through them long enough to matter, especially with Rocket being one of the most fragile members of the team.

You have a point, but I would add that Rocket already has access to technology far more advanced than Ultron does - so it may not be a question of design.

Also, Ultron couldn't kill Cap one on one, so Drax, Nebula and Gamora are going to keep him pretty busy.

How did the poll work out ?

 

[Docker2.0]

Gamora wins but let's up the ante!! Next up:

Gamora

vs Captain America Steve Rogers

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Batmannerism]

Gamora wins but let's up the ante!! Next up:

Gamora

vs Captain America Steve Rogers

Who you got peeps?!

Cap 10/10.

Gamora probably has a small strength and durability advantage.

However, her combat feats against skilled opponents are negligible. She's awesome against utterly useless goons, and slow, lumbering, enormous monsters.

Starlord was able to stun and incapacitate her simply by not being a moron.

Cap's shield can cut steel cable like paper, he's a tactical genius and can be surprisingly ruthless in combat. He went toe to toe with Ultron and walked away intact. He's taken full on punches from Iron Man and point blank repulsor blasts.

I just cant see Cap losing this. I'll double down and say 2 on 2 Cap and Bucky beat Gamora and Nebula, 10/10.

 

[Bayne]

Cap 10/10.

Gamora probably has a small strength and durability advantage.

However, her combat feats against skilled opponents are negligible. She's awesome against utterly useless goons, and slow, lumbering, enormous monsters.

Starlord was able to stun and incapacitate her simply by not being a moron.

Cap's shield can cut steel cable like paper, he's a tactical genius and can be surprisingly ruthless in combat. He went toe to toe with Ultron and walked away intact. He's taken full on punches from Iron Man and point blank repulsor blasts. I just cant see Cap losing this.

I pretty much agree with everything you said. Except this:

I'll double down and say 2 on 2 Cap and Bucky beat Gamora and Nebula, 10/10.

Bottom line, Gamora's probable (but not even entirely provable) strength and durability advantage is nothing compared to Cap's unquestionable skill advantage and the shield. But Nebula, however messy she is, literally can't lose to Bucky given her ability to instantly pop broken bones back into place, tank a literal rocket to the face, etc, and Cap isn't so skilled as to easily overwhelm both Gamora and Nebula at once.

 

[metaphysician]

You have a point, but I would add that Rocket already has access to technology far more advanced than Ultron does - so it may not be a question of design.

Also, Ultron couldn't kill Cap one on one, so Drax, Nebula and Gamora are going to keep him pretty busy.

How did the poll work out ?

1. Rocket has "access to" advanced tech, but he doesn't exactly keep a giant pile of shapeshifting nanotech that can turn into whatever he can imagine instantly. He actually has to build things out of tools and parts, and the stuff he has "on hand" leans to things like guns and explosives rather than "supertech hacking tools".

2. The Ultron body that Cap solo occupied isn't the one that the Guardians are fighting. *cough* The one they are fighting is the one that got into a grappling match with Thor and was slowly overpowering him.

 

[metaphysician]

Gamorra vs Cap:

Yeah, I give this to Cap 9/10. Gamorra *might* have a mild physical advantage, but that's debateable. . . and not important enough to matter vs Steve's best-in-class fighting and tactical skill. As a rule of thumb, I'd give the victory to Steve in any 1v1 fight where the opponent doesn't either have an overwhelming physical advantage ( in the range of "Steve is not capable of hurting the opponent at all" ) or some kind of power that basically prevents a fight from happening ( think "superspeed" or "flight, ranged attacks, and a starting position a mile above the ground" ).

As for the side fight. . . I actually agree that it'd be dicier, but not because of Nebula's regen. I mean, yes, she has quality regen to get back into a fight, but I think the bigger issue is that Bucky *doesn't* have an indestructible melee weapon to use for blocking and parrying. This is a problem when both Gamora and Nebula have high end Thanos-tech weapons that neither of Team Cap want to take hits from. Steve would basically need to tank against *both* of them while Bucky breaks off contact and attempts to flank and skirmish against them, until at least one is taken down. I still think they would win more often than not, but it'd only be by 6-7/10 margins.

 

[Batmannerism]

I pretty much agree with everything you said. Except this:



Bottom line, Gamora's probable (but not even entirely provable) strength and durability advantage is nothing compared to Cap's unquestionable skill advantage and the shield. But Nebula, however messy she is, literally can't lose to Bucky given her ability to instantly pop broken bones back into place, tank a literal rocket to the face, etc, and Cap isn't so skilled as to easily overwhelm both Gamora and Nebula at once.

I take your point, but Nebula' durability and self-repair capabilities are inconsistent. Agree that she takes a bazooka and bounces back in GOTG v1 but in Endgame one shot from an energy pistol straight up kills her. In GOTG v2 she has to be rescued from a crashed ship, so there are limits on how much damage she can take and how much she can fix.

Give Bucky his Winter Soldier armament and I can see him putting Nebula down with a grenade or two, and then ripping her to pieces while she's putting herself back together.

Without grenades Nebula vs Bucky is a lot more even. Until Cap cuts off her head with his shield.

We'll see how the poll turns out.

 

[Bayne]

I take your point, but Nebula' durability and self-repair capabilities are inconsistent. Agree that she takes a bazooka and bounces back in GOTG v1 but in Endgame one shot from an energy pistol straight up kills her. In GOTG v2 she has to be rescued from a crashed ship, so there are limits on how much damage she can take and how much she can fix.

Give Bucky his Winter Soldier armament and I can see him putting Nebula down with a grenade or two, and then ripping her to pieces while she's putting herself back together.

Without grenades Nebula vs Bucky is a lot more even.

I take your point about the consistency, but I think you're overlooking that Bucky is a lot more consistently vulnerable then she is even at her worst level. There's literally nothing stopping her from just letting him smash her face in with his metal arm so she can stab him straight through the heart with a dagger before he pulls back.

And also this:

Until Cap cuts off her head with his shield.

Is not happening, ever. That's not what Captain America does, even to the bad guys.

We'll see how the poll turns out.

Agreed.

 

[Batmannerism]

I take your point about the consistency, but I think you're overlooking that Bucky is a lot more consistently vulnerable then she is even at her worst level. There's literally nothing stopping her from just letting him smash her face in with his metal arm so she can stab him straight through the heart with a dagger before he pulls back.

And also this:



Is not happening, ever. That's not what Captain America does, even to the bad guys.



Agreed.

Bucky took full on punches from Iron Man and kept coming, I think you're underrating how tough he is, although maybe not against stabbing weapons - and Nebula, again, shes got the self repair function, but she still feels some effects of impacts, otherwise why block any of Gamora's strikes during their fights?

I believe a full on punch from Bucky's metal arm would at least momentarily damage her.


You're right that the idea of Cap cutting off someone's head is a bit extreme, and probably wouldnt happen under all but the most extreme circumstances.- but he will go a long way to protect Bucky, including giving a close friend, like Tony, a severe beating.

Cap obviously doesn't enjoy killing people, but he aldoesn't nt hesitate to do it when he needs to- he certainly killed a lot of people in WW 2 and even in the Winter Soldier and Civil War he inflicts injuries on goons that would have certainly killed or crippled them.

If Nebula did fatally stab Bucky, I have zero doubt that Cap's response would be immediate lethal force.

Cap also knows Nebula is a cyborg - maybe he wouldn't cut off her head, fair enough. But if she was about to fatally stab Bucky, I have little doubt he'd amputate her arm with his shield.

Anyway, we've probably taken this as far as it can go - would be neat to see an actual fight between those characters though.

Wonder if Nebula will survive Guardians vol 3, because it looks like a few of them won't...

 

[metaphysician]

*cough* Nebula has good regen, sure, but she also was one the ground for a fairly extended period in Guardians 1 after taking a rocket launcher to the face. Being repeatedly punched or smashed by either of Team Cap should be more than enough to achieve a ten count. Its why I don't think the regen actually matters *that* much here: on a combat time scale, it doesn't help that much more than the superhuman durability and stamina that everyone in the battle also has.

 

[Luigi]

Cap

He's got the skills, shield and experience, he simply outclasses Gamora.

Bucky took full on punches from Iron Man and kept coming, I think you're underrating how tough he is, although maybe not against stabbing weapons - and Nebula, again, shes got the self repair function, but she still feels some effects of impacts, otherwise why block any of Gamora's strikes during their fights?

I believe a full on punch from Bucky's metal arm would at least momentarily damage her.


You're right that the idea of Cap cutting off someone's head is a bit extreme, and probably wouldnt happen under all but the most extreme circumstances.- but he will go a long way to protect Bucky, including giving a close friend, like Tony, a severe beating.

Cap obviously doesn't enjoy killing people, but he aldoesn't nt hesitate to do it when he needs to- he certainly killed a lot of people in WW 2 and even in the Winter Soldier and Civil War he inflicts injuries on goons that would have certainly killed or crippled them.

If Nebula did fatally stab Bucky, I have zero doubt that Cap's response would be immediate lethal force.

Cap also knows Nebula is a cyborg - maybe he wouldn't cut off her head, fair enough. But if she was about to fatally stab Bucky, I have little doubt he'd amputate her arm with his shield.

Anyway, we've probably taken this as far as it can go - would be neat to see an actual fight between those characters though.

Wonder if Nebula will survive Guardians vol 3, because it looks like a few of them won't...

Poor guy was probably two days away from retirement.

 

[Batmannerism]

Cap

He's got the skills, shield and experience, he simply outclasses Gamora.

Poor guy was probably two days away from retirement.

That guy is very likely dead.

Captain America does NOT negotiate with terrorists!

 

[Docker2.0]

Cap wins. Next up:

Black Widow

vs dora milaje

who you got peeps? And I chose this one cause of Civil War.